A thought just occurred to me; how come Illusion spells require Will saves but have no interaction with the Perception skill?
I mean, wouldn't Perception be the thing for spotting things 'wrong' with an illusion? I suppose for things like patterns, which are mind affecting, a Will save is warranted (your brain is/is not fully affected), but otherwise?
Makes me wonder if a Spellcraft vs Perception opposed roll wouldn't be better.
A thought just occurred to me; how come Illusion spells require Will saves but have no interaction with the Perception skill?
I mean, wouldn't Perception be the thing for spotting things 'wrong' with an illusion? I suppose for things like patterns, which are mind affecting, a Will save is warranted (your brain is/is not fully affected), but otherwise?
Makes me wonder if a Spellcraft vs Perception opposed roll wouldn't be better.
You could also argue that sense motive would let you know "something is amiss" with an illusion of a person.
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Try it out and see how it works; it seems like a good mechanic to playtest.
My first guess on why the RAW is different is for balance -- Perception is already too "strong" a skill compared to others. It's the one that everyone, regardless of Class, needs. It's a bit "broken"; maybe making it the watchdog for Illusions makes it even worse.... Also, as I recall, Perception is not a class skill for Wiz & Sor, the ones that should be able to recognize illusions easier.
Incidently, in my own Homebrew, I prefer to make Perception an Ability Score, not a skill. Of course, when I introduced it years ago I called the Ability "Cognizance" instead of Perception, but it's the same Ability.
You could also argue that sense motive would let you know "something is amiss" with an illusion of a person.
Makes me wonder if a Spellcraft vs Perception opposed roll wouldn't be better.
Hrm. Good point.
Try it out and see how it works; it seems like a good mechanic to playtest.
I'm still mulling which skill(s) to use for setting up illusions and/or skills to penetrate them. For example, Spellcraft seems the easy go-to spell for it, but there's a temptation to use Craft(Illusion) as well. And for things like Disguise Self, the Disguise skill should be used. And then there's Knowledge skills - for example; using Knowledge(Nature) to create illusions of trees and animals seems pretty fair.
Which, now that I think of it, is probably why they went with just a straight up Will save, but darn it if that's not good enough ^_^.
Incidently, in my own Homebrew, I prefer to make Perception an Ability Score, not a skill. Of course, when I introduced it years ago I called the Ability "Cognizance" instead of Perception, but it's the same Ability.
I like Perception as a skill - it means that higher level characters are better at spotting stuff (maybe) than lower level ones (experienced = more wary/alert).
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It's assumed by some people that the reason you don't use a skill is that if you fail your will save your mind is willing to fill in the missing details on it's own.
There have been a very large amount of look into the three various types of illusions and for more of them it's a trick on the viewers mind rather then a real effect.
Otherwise with current d20 rules we'd be seeing people take craft: illusions and things like that to improve them which would seem silly. :)
I would expect it to be more then just the mind of the person filling in the gaps, afterall there the *magical* part of the whole deal. The magic of the spell should help the cast fill in gaps. A caster should not be require to have a ranked skill do things 3D animators do, like skin translucence or gravity's pull on body hair.
Depending on the GM/Player involved illusions can be undervalued already. By putting them up against a skill requirement in a vs system you make them even less attractive. If I were to put any use to perception vs the illusion it would only be as the standard action active use, and only then to force the "interact" with it will save.
For example you use perception to activly visually examine room wall (is a silent image). Most people don't actually feel-up walls and would not interact with the illusion and just assume it's a wall. The active perception use would, at least on a first brush ruling, allow the observer the will save without walking up and smacking it.
A thought just occurred to me; how come Illusion spells require Will saves but have no interaction with the Perception skill?
A) It is magic that affects your mind first and your senses second. If you fail you save, then you believe it is real and it interacts with perception as if it were so. The power of the spell and your own mind feed the details necessary to make you believe.
B) It is far easier to buy items that boost skills than boost saves and the caps on the two are far different. As such, you would relegate illusions to near uselessness since boosting perception with a magic items is easier and cheaper than raising your will save.
I think that using perception VS illusion or a "craft" skill for illusion would be like asking a Mage to make a Stealth check to use Invisibility and perception against it. Point being- magic makes things easy... that's the trick, the draw if you will.
I think if you follow this path, you would end up restricting mages more than they are empowered under the current system... IE slippery slope, IMHO.
I think that using perception VS illusion or a "craft" skill for illusion would be like asking a Mage to make a Stealth check to use Invisibility and perception against it. Point being- magic makes things easy... that's the trick, the draw if you will.
I think if you follow this path, you would end up restricting mages more than they are empowered under the current system... IE slippery slope, IMHO.
Point of order, Invisibility DOES still require Stealth checks, it just adds a huge bonus to them. It has a non-Stealth effect (not being seen), but people can still tell something's there and locate your general vicinity with a Per vs Stealth roll.
I agree that you don't want to go too far down this road (skill for everything), yet at the same time, allowing illusionist to make an illusion of 'anything' with no regard to what they know, creativity, etcetera. There's gotta be a happy middle ground (which is why my first impulse was to use Spellcraft).
Point of order, Invisibility DOES still require Stealth checks, it just adds a huge bonus to them. It has a non-Stealth effect (not being seen), but people can still tell something's there and locate your general vicinity with a Per vs Stealth roll.
I agree that you don't want to go too far down this road (skill for everything), yet at the same time, allowing illusionist to make an illusion of 'anything' with no regard to what they know, creativity, etcetera. There's gotta be a happy middle ground (which is why my first impulse was to use Spellcraft).
I would say that rather than a craft(illusions) check, and knowledge check is more in order.
If I am crafting something that is common knowledge like a brick wall, then no check is required or rather the check cannot be failed.
If I am crafting an image of a dragon, then a knowledge(arcana) check might be in order to determine exactly how much I know about dragons.