|
Came across an interesting and potentially overpowered scenario today.
Unless the text has been changed in the official APG (come on tomorrow!) the evolution Push is decribed below.
Push (Ex): An eidolon gains the ability to push creatures away with a successful attack. Select one type of natural attack. Whenever the eidolon makes a successful attack of the selected type, it can attempt a free combat maneuver check. If successful, the target of the attack is pushed 5 feet directly away from the eidolon. This ability only works on creatures of a size equal to or smaller than the eidolon. Creatures pushed in this way do not provoke attacks of opportunity. This evolution can be selected more than once. Its effects do not stack. Each time an eidolon selects this evolution, it applies to a different natural attack.
This caused a rise of 2 questions. How does this work with a reach attack (like with the evolution reach)? With RAW, I would imagine it would push the enemy from 10'->15'.
The followup question is a multi-parter (same reach scenario). Would a successful AoO be eligible for a push? If this AoO was generated by movement (say from 20'->5'), would the push occur as the enemy was still in the 10' square (10'->5' causing the AoO) and thus be pushed to 15'? Or would it be pushed to 10'? Either way, this would cancel any potential follow up attack from the enemy. The 15' scenario would be even more overpowered in my mind since it would cause either the enemy's remaining standard action to move into melee (generating another AoO if Combat Reflexes is available). The 10' scenario would still cause a similar behavior if they wanted to close to melee that round since they couldn't 5' step since they had already moved that round (and 5' step is only if you didn't do movement).
I would imagine the easiest "fix" would be to not allow AoOs to "push", but I wanted to know if there was an official ruling (of maybe a rewrite of the evolution). I probably should have just waited until tomorrow to see what the APG says, but it's possible the scenario is still relevant.
The official ruling, as I understood it, was that involuntary movement never provokes an attack of opportunity unless something specifically states otherwise (such as Greater Bull Rush).
This caused a rise of 2 questions. How does this work with a reach attack (like with the evolution reach)? With RAW, I would imagine it would push the enemy from 10'->15'.The followup question is a multi-parter (same reach scenario). Would a successful AoO be eligible for a push? If this AoO was generated by movement (say from 20'->5'), would the push occur as the enemy was still in the 10' square (10'->5' causing the AoO) and thus be pushed to 15'? Or would it be pushed to 10'? Either way, this would cancel any potential follow up attack from the enemy. The 15' scenario would be even more overpowered in my mind since it would cause either the enemy's remaining standard action to move into melee (generating another AoO if Combat Reflexes is available). The 10' scenario would still cause a similar behavior if they wanted to close to melee that round since they couldn't 5' step since they had already moved that round (and 5' step is only if you didn't do movement).
I would imagine the easiest "fix" would be to not allow AoOs to "push", but I wanted to know if there was an official ruling (of maybe a rewrite of the evolution). I probably should have just waited until tomorrow to see...
Q.1. The push would put them 5' from whichever square they are in when you hit them. As per your thoughts.
Q.2. An AoO is an attack so the push would apply if you wanted it to (assuming you hit). The push would take effect from whatever square you hit them in during their movement that provoked the AoO. If you have reach you could choose when you take your AoO as your opponent approaches.
iirc the successful AoO (and subsequent push) won't end their movement, so if they have sufficient movement left I guess they could keep moving towards you after you push them back. So it might not be a way of keeping them permanently at reach, merely making it harder, and more dangerous, to close with you.
It brings to mind the picture of a little kid trying to hit a big kid who has his hand on the little one's head. The little one can't get close enough to strike and whenever he tries to move forward the big kid just extends his arm to keep him out of reach. (aka me and my elder brother 30 years ago!)