1st: Splash Weapon Mastery
HBF: Precise Bomb
Precise Bomb is a discovery, not a feat, right? Note that you can't take Extra Discovery at level 1, since you don't have the Discovery class feature yet.
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If you can't tell based on my recommendations, I am not a fan of optimizing stats to the moon. With a 7 strength a character is going to have carrying capacity issues.
Alchemists are gear whores, how much does 10 bomb flasks weigh anyhow? 5 bottles of acid, 5 bottles of holy water, that's 10 lbs right there. Even at higher levels a mithril shirt weighs 12 lbs and a handy haversack weighs 5 lbs which puts you in spitting distance of your carrying capacity. If you went without armor you might be ok but armor use is a nice class perk to be giving up.
You could probably get away with it, particularly if your GM hand waves encumbrance. *shrug*
If you can play monster races, consider Tiefling (+2 DEX, +2 INT, -2 CHA) for Dr. Strangelob. They don't get much else but the stats are a perfect match.
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From the FAQ tab for the APG, Rapid Shot (and Haste) work with Fast Bombs. Along with other feats that work off full attack.
The FAQ can be found here.
Not sure if this bumps Haste (3rd lvl extract) to Blue (due to the limited duration), but it is definitely valuable when used with Rapid Shot.
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From the FAQ tab for the APG, Rapid Shot (and Haste) work with Fast Bombs. Along with other feats that work off full attack.
The FAQ can be found here.
Not sure if this bumps Haste (3rd lvl extract) to Blue (due to the limited duration), but it is definitely valuable when used with Rapid Shot.
Cool, good to see they are chasing these things down, not sure about how I feel about the alchemist's new super nova powers but it's good to see it nailed down.
As for haste, I still don't see it as green. Is it better the throw 3 bombs in rounds 1-4 (with rapid shot) or 4 bombs in rounds 2-4 (rapid shot plus haste)? Here's the real catch, either way an 8th level alchemist is probably running out of bombs in round 5. So with haste your break even point is right when you run out of bombs.
The alchemist is potentially the new Nova class, burn up quick then stand around with your hands in your pockets.
IMO what this does is ratchet up the value of extra bombs and the gnome racial feature.
Precise Bomb is a discovery, not a feat, right? Note that you can't take Extra Discovery at level 1, since you don't have the Discovery class feature yet.
1st: Splash Weapon Mastery
HBF: Precise Bomb
D'oh!, excellent point, missed that!
Hmm, I guess that makes the Human element less attractive although I could just take Point Blank Shot early. Don't really intend on direct hitting early on though.
Direct targeting could be hampered by Cover, Melee & range increments [that's +9]
If you aim at an intersection you only have to worry about cover and increments plus you only need to hit an AC of 5. This'll make my splash damage from my Fire bombs 6 on a 10ft x 10ft square at level 1/2. Not too shabby.
Would probably use the Con mutagen to start with [save it for a tricky fight] and then swap to Dex when I get the targeting Bombs.
Alchemists are gear whores, how much does 10 bomb flasks weigh anyhow? 5 bottles of acid, 5 bottles of holy water, that's 10 lbs right there. Even at higher levels a mithril shirt weighs 12 lbs and a handy haversack weighs 5 lbs which puts you in spitting distance of your carrying capacity. If you went without armor you might be ok but armor use is a nice class perk to be giving up.
Good points...
Elf
Str 10
Dex 16
Con 11
Int 20
Wis 10
Cha 7
1st: Splash Weapon Mastery
2nd: Precise Bomb
3rd: Extra Discovery - Smoke Bomb
4th: Stink Bomb
5th: Point Blank Shot
6th: Infusion/Dispelling Bomb
7th: Precise Shot
8th: Force Bomb
9th: Extra Discovery - Fast Bomb
[EDIT] removed
If you can play monster races, consider Tiefling (+2 DEX, +2 INT, -2 CHA) for Dr. Strangelob. They don't get much else but the stats are a perfect match.
You're quite right but if I'm going to use Charisma as a dump stat, I really don't want it to be 5!, 7 is bad enough.
IMO what this does is ratchet up the value of extra bombs and the gnome racial feature.
Gnome Class Options
Alchemist: Add +1/2 to the number of bombs per day the alchemist can create.Is that "add half" so 6 becomes 9, or "add 1 per 2 class levels" ??
It really should have the words "class levels" or "caster levels" if its the latter.
Ok where is Splash weapon mastery & what does it do?
Also Force bomb can only be taken once as it modifies other bombs
Thanks
It's in the Adventurer's Armory.
I've edited out the duplicate Discovery error.|
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Ok where is Splash weapon mastery & what does it do?
Also Force bomb can only be taken once as it modifies other bombs
Thanks
Splash Weapon Mastery is from Adventurers Armory. You can see it online at The Archives of Nethys.
I'm not sure what you mean by force bombs being taken multiple times... ?
Are you sure the Orc alternative feature is 1 damage per 2 levels?
It reads +1/2. That's plus half so 6 damage becomes 9.
From Racial Favored Classes [page 9]
Finally, some of these alternate favored class benefits
only add +1/2, +1/3, +1/4, or +1/6 to a roll (rather than +1)
each time the benefit is selected; when applying this result
to the die roll, round down (minimum 0). For example, a
dwarf with rogue as his favored class adds +1/2 to his trap
sense ability regarding stone traps each time he selects the
alternate rogue favored class benefit; though this means
the net effect is +0 after selecting it once (because +1/2
rounds down to +0), after 20 levels this benefit gives the
dwarf a +10 bonus to his trap sense (in addition to the base
value from being a 20th-level rogue).
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IMO what this does is ratchet up the value of extra bombs and the gnome racial feature.
Gnome Class Options
Alchemist: Add +1/2 to the number of bombs per day the alchemist can create.
You get 1 extra bomb for every 2 levels.
Look at the bottom of page 9 in the APG for an explanation of the fractional favored class benefits.
Are you sure the Orc alternative feature is 1 damage per 2 levels?Yes
It reads +1/2. That's plus half so 6 damage becomes 9.So after four levels choosing this you are doing 3 times your bomb damage? (Add +2 to your bomb damage)
I don't want to get told off for using the "broken" word, but that really looked broken for a minute!
So really it isn't that great a boon, nice but mainly meh.
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Are you sure the Orc alternative feature is 1 damage per 2 levels?Yes
It reads +1/2. That's plus half so 6 damage becomes 9.So after four levels choosing this you are doing 3 times your bomb damage? (Add +2 to your bomb damage)I don't want to get told off for using the "broken" word, but that really looked broken for a minute!
So really it isn't that great a boon, nice but mainly meh.
It's pretty dang good, a 10th level half orc using rapid shot or haste is adding 15hp damage per round. As far as I can tell it applies to splash damage also which would mean you are doing 45 points of splash damage to everyone adjacent to the primary target (or a bigger area with explosive bomb) versus 30 points of splash for a non-half orc.
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Are you sure the Orc alternative feature is 1 damage per 2 levels?Yes
It reads +1/2. That's plus half so 6 damage becomes 9.So after four levels choosing this you are doing 3 times your bomb damage? (Add +2 to your bomb damage)I don't want to get told off for using the "broken" word, but that really looked broken for a minute!
So really it isn't that great a boon, nice but mainly meh.
It's pretty dang good, a 10th level half orc using rapid shot or haste is adding 15hp damage per round. As far as I can tell it applies to splash damage also which would mean you are doing 45 points of splash damage to everyone adjacent to the primary target (or a bigger area with explosive bomb) versus 30 points of splash for a non-half orc.
That is also the way I read it, since it modifies the minimum damage done by bombs, it should also affect splash damage.
Chances are when I make my next alchemist it will be either a 1/2 orc or a gnome... :)
Btw is splash mastery in hardcover anywhere? Keeping rules to hardcovers only.
No, it's soft but seeing that it's in the Pathfinder Companion line which is specifically for players it would seem pretty safe.
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Stu
Thanks. Buying in print is more accurate, anything that is pdf only won't float. Gentlemen's aggreement. That makes a very happy person.
The player companion line is a printed product. Adventurers Armory is a decent product, it would be better except they reprinted a good % of it in the APG so it's quite a bit redundant. There are a good number of alchemist friendly items in there though which don't appear in the APG.
Here is a link on Paizo's site for it.
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More updates,
I like the colour grading, make it easier to see the options you rate highly.
Maybe some full build ideas would be nice, including what Feats to take and why, and in what order.
The more, the better, it's all good stuff, thanks.
Would like some opinions on the following alchemist
Kingmaker
houserules
25pt buy
can spent 1 or 2 stat buy points to buy 2nd and 3rd trait (only 1st is free)
Can swap out 1 feat every 4 levels
Looking at a hyrbid alchemist with solid melee and bombs, I'd love to sneak in poison but I can't really find room.
Half-Orc taking +1/2 bomb dmg
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 18 (16+2)
WIS 12
CHA 8
Level 2 - smoke bomb
Level 3 - feat ferral mutgaen
Level 4 - stink bomb
Level 5 - feat power attack
Level 6 - dispelling bomb
Level 7 - feat Infusion/Acid Bomb/precise
Level 8 - Fast Bombs
Level 9 - feat Force Bomb
Level 10 - Sticky bomb
Level 11 - feat Infusion/Acid Bomb/precise
Level 12 - poison bomb
Level 13 - greater mutagen
I'm thinking that depending on how often I feral mutagen in melee vs throwing bombs I can potentially feat swap out of melee entirely dropping ferral and power attack at 8,12,16 for other bomb feats, or drop other feats used to take bomb discoveries for melee feats and maybe slide into master chymist at 13th or just melee focus the alchemist to 20th level
4th and 8th level stats would be INT, and either INT or STR depending on the focus later
I guess I'm looking for ways to future proof my charcter within our houserules/game should I decide after 6months to walk a differn't path.
the only other alternative I see is to flip a coin and go for Hyde or Strangelob completely ignoring the other.
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Would like some opinions on the following alchemist
Kingmaker
houserules
25pt buy
can spent 1 or 2 stat buy points to buy 2nd and 3rd trait (only 1st is free)
Can swap out 1 feat every 4 levelsLooking at a hyrbid alchemist with solid melee and bombs, I'd love to sneak in poison but I can't really find room.
Half-Orc taking +1/2 bomb dmg
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 18 (16+2)
WIS 12
CHA 8Level 2 - smoke bomb
Level 3 - feat ferral mutgaen
Level 4 - stink bomb
Level 5 - feat power attack
Level 6 - dispelling bomb
Level 7 - feat Infusion/Acid Bomb/precise
Level 8 - Fast Bombs
Level 9 - feat Force Bomb
Level 10 - Sticky bomb
Level 11 - feat Infusion/Acid Bomb/precise
Level 12 - poison bomb
Level 13 - greater mutagenI'm thinking that depending on how often I feral mutagen in melee vs throwing bombs I can potentially feat swap out of melee entirely dropping ferral and power attack at 8,12,16 for other bomb feats, or drop other feats used to take bomb discoveries for melee feats and maybe slide into master chymist at 13th or just melee focus the alchemist to 20th level
4th and 8th level stats would be INT, and either INT or STR depending on the focus later
I guess I'm looking for ways to future proof my charcter within our houserules/game should I decide after 6months to walk a differn't path.
the only other alternative I see is to flip a coin and go for Hyde or Strangelob completely ignoring the other.
You almost want to go either Mr Hyde or Strangelob. By dipping into both you are lessening your overall effectiveness because you are spreading out your feats.
With 1/2 Orc and the +1/2 bomb damage going Strangelob would be very effective. Add in Point Blank Shot and Splash Weapon Mastery and Rapid Shot and you have a nice potent combo for exploding things.
The question on deciding if you want to go Strangelob or Mr Hyde will probably be determined by the rest of your party mix. Do they already have a melee guy or two?
Just my 2cents.
You almost want to go either Mr Hyde or Strangelob. By dipping into both you are lessening your overall effectiveness because you are spreading out your feats.With 1/2 Orc and the +1/2 bomb damage going Strangelob would be very effective. Add in Point Blank Shot and Splash Weapon Mastery and Rapid Shot and you have a nice potent combo for exploding things.
The question on deciding if you want to go Strangelob or Mr Hyde will probably be determined by the rest of your party mix. Do they already have a melee guy or two?
Just my 2cents.
I agree.
The Half-orc bonus to damage is better suited to damage bombing rather than smoke bombing.
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@Phasics - If you are thinking about a hybrid just start building like you are making Mr Hyde. Hyde is going to be good with bombing, just not as good as the bomb dedicated Strangelob. I've found with Mr. Hyde you are very much a sort of hybrid guy.
@Darkthorne68 - If your GM lets INA fly then it's a good call. I'm not sure how many GMs would let you use that.
@Phasics - If you are thinking about a hybrid just start building like you are making Mr Hyde. Hyde is going to be good with bombing, just not as good as the bomb dedicated Strangelob. I've found with Mr. Hyde you are very much a sort of hybrid guy.
@Darkthorne68 - If your GM lets INA fly then it's a good call. I'm not sure how many GMs would let you use that.
Thanks Ogre I'll probably go Hyde then
Cheers
question on fast bombs and cloud bombs
could you use fast bombs to deploy a field of smoke bombs for example throwing 3 bombs to three differn't places so the clouds don't overlap generating 3 20ft circles of smoke where you want them.
or must all your bombs be thrown on to the same point.
and if the later is the case is there an argument that multiple cloud bombs thrown on the same spot would generate a larger diammeter cloud ? since 3 bombs generates more gas that would naturally spread out further.
so e.g.
throw 1 smoke bomb = Twice bombs splash radius (20ft)
throw 2 smoke bombs = Three times bombs splash radius (30ft)
throw 3 smoke bombs = Four times bombs splash radius (40ft)
Edit for your Guide Ogre
I notice that you don't have Enhance Potion listed on Mr Hyde's list of discoveries for discussion.
Personally I think Enhance Potion coupled with Alchemical Allocation is one of the best combo's the alchemist has access to. basically get yourself a handy haversack and one of every 3rd level and lower potion and load up on the AA spells and your golden. and I would think this a green for both Hyde and Strangelob.
The versatility of getting any potion you find functioning at your caster level (and dosen't need to be on your spell list) is just win
greater magic fang potion that will scale perfectly with you and never runs out :)
Also just on stats for my Hyde
15(17) 14 14 16 10 8/7 , level 4 goes to STR , however the next 4 go into INT , to increase bomb DC's and get some extra extracts. CHA 7 instead of 8 would be for 3 traits instead of 1 which I think could be worth it, although mutagen taking CHA down to 5 could be rough, would need to invest into some +CHA items no doubt.
Will putting bonus points into INT hurt Hyde too much ? we're talking the difference between a +2 attack and +2 damage mod on 3 attacks at mid to high levels vs +2DC +2vsSR, extra 1st, 4th and 5th extracts and 2 extra skills, when the bomb effects and bonus extracts could be worth it.
Is there any other way to increase bomb DC other than boosting INT ? heh race trait of +1/2Bomb DC would be perfect :)
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My posts keep getting eaten.
I replied to your post on fast bomb/ clouds and it went MIA.
Basically there are no rules for overlapping cloud effects, they are treated as any other burst effect. You can definitely throw them in multiple places.
Don't know how I missed Enhance Potion... I agree it works well with Alchemical Allocation. Not sure when you could squeeze this into a build though.
I'll add it in, thanks for catching that.
My posts keep getting eaten.
I replied to your post on fast bomb/ clouds and it went MIA.
That's happened sooo many times that now I always copy/paste into Word before posting!
Don't know how I missed Enhance Potion... I agree it works well with Alchemical Allocation. Not sure when you could squeeze this into a build though.I'll add it in, thanks for catching that.
I'm not only having problems seeing where this would fit in, but really how many 3rd level potions are there that you'll be burning your 2nd level potions to re-cast to justify the Feat?
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I'm not only having problems seeing where this would fit in, but really how many 3rd level potions are there that you'll be burning your 2nd level potions to re-cast to justify the Feat?
Don't know how I missed Enhance Potion... I agree it works well with Alchemical Allocation. Not sure when you could squeeze this into a build though.I'll add it in, thanks for catching that.
I have those listed on the intro page actually... not a lot but there are a few quite good ones.
Probably the top two interesting ones:
Also: good hope, and a few others...
Not a lot but there are some goodies. The number where level is important beyond duration is pretty small.
What are your thoughts on Fuse Grenade ?
[100gp's for a 2d6 + 1d6 fire bomb that pops in 1d3 rounds]
What are your thoughts on Fuse Grenade ?
[100gp's for a 2d6 + 1d6 fire bomb that pops in 1d3 rounds]
I think there a discoveries that lets you delays your bombs exploding for number of round equal to INT mod
so if its somthing you'd use often I'd say don't waste your money on somthing you can get for free.
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What are your thoughts on Fuse Grenade ?
[100gp's for a 2d6 + 1d6 fire bomb that pops in 1d3 rounds]
*shrug* Do a bit of damage at a random interval? Potentially cool at low levels, I don't think you would get your INT bonus to damage. I don't much care for delay bomb and it has a guaranteed explosion time.
One nice thing I suppose it when it's burning it deters anyone from going in that area (because they theoretically don't know when it will explode) so you can use it as a crude area denial effect.
Enhance Potion is worth taking just to chug Protection From Evil potions if nothing else, eliminating the worry of being mind controlled.
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Prot from evil doesn't really cut it at 1 min/ level, but I will add Magic Circle Against Evil to the list for that reason.
I'm still not sold on enhance potion. It definitely has it's uses but it's not really useful at all until 6th level+ and then you are getting some really good discoveries and it's hard to squeeze it in.
Ultimately it's not that it's a bad discovery... just that there are a lot of really good/ required ones.
just a thought on delay'd bombs and Hyde
2 Options
First when your initiating combat you can literally walk into the group your about to attack and have a smoke/stink/posion bomb go off instantly giving you 100% concealment.
Second have a bunch of bombs set to to go off together and have dragonic Reservoir and or resistance's on for that type and invite your enemies in, a more potent version of the detonate spell. Suicide Bomber except your not going to die from the explosion ;)
hehe I could even see this as a good dipliomancy ploy. these bombs are going to explode in 30 seconds unless I diffuse them and your all gonna die screaming unless I get what I want right the hell now !
Another good one is putting a delay'd stink bomb on for the max number of rounds which probably won't go off during a fight unless you get grappled in which case its going to go off and potentially get you out of the grapple.
you could do the above with force bombs and the like so anyone who tires to grab you gets a nasty bomb in the face, gets knocked prone and your out of the grapple
Ok so I am just wonder why Grater Magic fang and Magic Fang are not on the list for Formulae any way, but you can make a potion of one with a higher DC right? I might be wrong which I am ok with. So if you can create a point of it then you can make it a potion of your level any way. That is just my thought.
Ok so I am just wonder why Grater Magic fang and Magic Fang are not on the list for Formulae any way, but you can make a potion of one with a higher DC right? I might be wrong which I am ok with. So if you can create a point of it then you can make it a potion of your level any way. That is just my thought.
you can buy a poition of grater magic fang
take the enhance potion ability to make it function at your caster level
and then use alchemical allocation spell so it never gets used
and you have free GMF every day in the morning
although you'd probably want to use it twice once for bite once for claws to get the full bonus on all your attacks.
Ok so I am just wonder why Grater Magic fang and Magic Fang are not on the list for Formulae any way, but you can make a potion of one with a higher DC right? I might be wrong which I am ok with. So if you can create a point of it then you can make it a potion of your level any way. That is just my thought.you can buy a poition of grater magic fang
take the enhance potion ability to make it function at your caster level
and then use alchemical allocation spell so it never gets used
and you have free GMF every day in the morning
although you'd probably want to use it twice once for bite once for claws to get the full bonus on all your attacks.
After reading the Brew Potion under alchemist it says that the alchemist can create a potion of any formulae he knows, but can he create potions of formulaes he dose not know, like spells he can cast for lack of a better way to put it. I know that you can craft with other magic item that you don't have the spell for by upping the DC just wondering if the Alchemist can with Brew Potion or not.
and I still think magic fang should be on the list, just me and my inner power gamer come thought.
Ok so I am just wonder why Grater Magic fang and Magic Fang are not on the list for Formulae any way, but you can make a potion of one with a higher DC right? I might be wrong which I am ok with. So if you can create a point of it then you can make it a potion of your level any way. That is just my thought.you can buy a poition of grater magic fang
take the enhance potion ability to make it function at your caster level
and then use alchemical allocation spell so it never gets used
and you have free GMF every day in the morning
although you'd probably want to use it twice once for bite once for claws to get the full bonus on all your attacks.
After reading the Brew Potion under alchemist it says that the alchemist can create a potion of any formulae he knows, but can he create potions of formulaes he dose not know, like spells he can cast for lack of a better way to put it. I know that you can craft with other magic item that you don't have the spell for by upping the DC just wondering if the Alchemist can with Brew Potion or not.
and I still think magic fang should be on the list, just me and my inner power gamer come thought.
just like any other item creation feat if somone else who does know the spell asists you in making the potion then you can craft a potion with a spell you don't know.
same way a wizard with craft wand can make a wand of cure light wounds if he works with the party cleric
thought on poisons
could you potentially strap a vial of inhaled posion to a smoke bomb or even mix it in with the smoke bomb to create a weak posion cloud ?
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After reading the Brew Potion under alchemist it says that the alchemist can create a potion of any formulae he knows, but can he create potions of formulaes he dose not know, like spells he can cast for lack of a better way to put it. I know that you can craft with other magic item that you don't have the spell for by upping the DC just wondering if the Alchemist can with Brew Potion or not.
and I still think magic fang should be on the list, just me and my inner power gamer come thought.
I really don't know. I've heard the idea beaten around a good bit but don't really think it's entirely clear so I leave such gray areas out until I get something a little more concrete from the designers. If your GM is cool with it then it's a good idea. Seems to me that Magic Fang goes hand in hand with Feral Mutagen...
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thought on poisons
could you potentially strap a vial of inhaled posion to a smoke bomb or even mix it in with the smoke bomb to create a weak posion cloud ?
This is a really gray area. Right now there are no defined ways of dispensing inhaled poisons other than as part of traps. Seems like a good idea for a discovery to me though...
Just on maxing Bite attack damage
1d8
Improved Natural Attack
2d6
Furious Mutagen
3d6
Enlarge Person/Giant Form/Growth Mutgaen
4d6
allowing for a potnetial total of 16d6 with Greater vital strike (which you can pickup at 18th level with a BAB of 16)
and drawing from that grapple thread I started
with greater grapple you can hit a grapple/pinned creature for 16d6 per round while maintaing the grapple.
Prot from evil doesn't really cut it at 1 min/ level, but I will add Magic Circle Against Evil to the list for that reason.
I'm still not sold on enhance potion. It definitely has it's uses but it's not really useful at all until 6th level+ and then you are getting some really good discoveries and it's hard to squeeze it in.
Ultimately it's not that it's a bad discovery... just that there are a lot of really good/ required ones.
Say that is the ticket. Didn't think of MCAE as something to take in potion form. I just weigh Extra Discovery: Enhance Potion for a 11th level Alchy vs Iron Will. +2 will saves vs the goodies from Protection from Evil/Chaos/Law 10 feet (yes I realize you have to burn level 2 slots to save your potions). The largest threats you would face with Iron will can be negated with MCAE. I had a list of really excellent potions for enhance potion jotted down, see if I can find it and record it here.