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so a conversation came up in my group about flanking and invisible creatures
if 2 players are flanking a monster, and player 2 is invis, people argue player 1 doesnt get the +2 to his because the monster cant see the player 2 and is ignoring it
or what if player 2 is there (invisibly)and hasnt attacked, but is threatening, should player 1 get +2 to hit?
does this make any sense to people?
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so a conversation came up in my group about flanking and invisible creatures
if 2 players are flanking a monster, and player 2 is invis, people argue player 1 doesnt get the +2 to his because the monster cant see the player 2 and is ignoring it
or what if player 2 is there (invisibly)and hasnt attacked, but is threatening, should player 1 get +2 to hit?
does this make any sense to people?
Is the monster aware that the invisible PC is in that 5' sqr? If they do not know about the invisible character at all, then there is no flanking (at lest for the visible character, the invisible character is already ignoring the Dex to AC). If they do, then I would say that they are distracted enough to offer the visible character the flanking bonus.
By a strict reading of the rules, an invisible creature can flank, even if the flankee is completely unaware of their presence.
We never play it that way at our table, but it is RAW. The only requirement for flanking is to have two characters who threaten the same enemy and are on opposite sides of that enemy. Nothing about the flankee being aware of both flankers or even either flanker.
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By a strict reading of the rules, an invisible creature can flank, even if the flankee is completely unaware of their presence.
We never play it that way at our table, but it is RAW. The only requirement for flanking is to have two characters who threaten the same enemy and are on opposite sides of that enemy. Nothing about the flankee being aware of both flankers or even either flanker.
i know. the problem is peopple like to "make sense" and not use RAW
our group has a vampire pixie rogue, who's not gonna be able to help me flank apparantly
By a strict reading of the rules, an invisible creature can flank, even if the flankee is completely unaware of their presence.
We never play it that way at our table, but it is RAW. The only requirement for flanking is to have two characters who threaten the same enemy and are on opposite sides of that enemy. Nothing about the flankee being aware of both flankers or even either flanker.
i know. the problem is peopple like to "make sense" and not use RAW
our group has a vampire pixie rogue, who's not gonna be able to help me flank apparantly
Hah, I was going to say that pixies are too small to threaten adjacent squares and therefore cannot flank, but then I thought I better look them up, and lo and behold! Pixies are small, which makes them freakin' ginormous compared to what I had in mind.
Don't forget the pixie can turn the invisibility on and off at will as a free action, so I believe a fair tactic would be for the pixie to delay until you move into position. Now you move up to your enemy and use the Ready action to ready your attack(s) for "when my pixie friend appears, I will attack". Now the pixie moves invisibly into flanking position, then drops invisibility as a free action, granting you the benefit of flanking, and then she readies her standard action with a trigger of "when my rogue friend is done attacking, I will attack". Now you make your readied attack(s) and finish your turn, which triggers the pixie's readied action, whereupon the pixie turns invisible as a free action and attacks the target, gaining the benefit of flanking AND invisibility.
Everyone wins. Except the poor schmuck you're killing.
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By a strict reading of the rules, an invisible creature can flank, even if the flankee is completely unaware of their presence.
We never play it that way at our table, but it is RAW. The only requirement for flanking is to have two characters who threaten the same enemy and are on opposite sides of that enemy. Nothing about the flankee being aware of both flankers or even either flanker.
i know. the problem is peopple like to "make sense" and not use RAW
our group has a vampire pixie rogue, who's not gonna be able to help me flank apparantly
Hah, I was going to say that pixies are too small to threaten adjacent squares and therefore cannot flank, but then I thought I better look them up, and lo and behold! Pixies are small, which makes them freakin' ginormous compared to what I had in mind.
Don't forget the pixie can turn the invisibility on and off at will as a free action, so I believe a fair tactic would be for the pixie to delay until you move into position. Now you move up to your enemy and use the Ready action to ready your attack(s) for "when my pixie friend appears, I will attack". Now the pixie moves invisibly into flanking position, then drops invisibility as a free action, granting you the benefit of flanking, and then she readies her standard action with a trigger of "when my rogue friend is done attacking, I will attack". Now you make your readied attack(s) and finish your turn, which triggers the pixie's readied action, whereupon the pixie turns invisible as a free action and attacks the target, gaining the benefit of flanking AND invisibility.
Everyone wins. Except the poor schmuck you're killing.
actually I'm playing a half-green-dragon-intellect-devourer that uses fly-by attack, so it changes the dynamic of that scenario a bit. the readying actions doesnt help with me, since it takes my move action and then i cant fly-by. i mean i guess i could stand toe to toe, but that wasnt my plan.
actually I'm playing a half-green-dragon-intellect-devourer that uses fly-by attack, so it changes the dynamic of that scenario a bit. the readying actions doesnt help with me, since it takes my move action and then i cant fly-by. i mean i guess i could stand toe to toe, but that wasnt my plan.
Apparently it wasn't your pixie friend's plan, either.
You guys need to improve your planning skills...
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actually I'm playing a half-green-dragon-intellect-devourer that uses fly-by attack, so it changes the dynamic of that scenario a bit. the readying actions doesnt help with me, since it takes my move action and then i cant fly-by. i mean i guess i could stand toe to toe, but that wasnt my plan.Apparently it wasn't your pixie friend's plan, either.
You guys need to improve your planning skills...
actually the dm made all the characters but mine. All cr 10's.
Xill quad weapon rogue with scimitars, vampire pixie rogue, nymph bard, ogre mage fighter, and my character.
the pixie and I can stand in melee, but we dont have the greatest to-hit's.
of course the ability to take over the boss after the fight is always fun.