| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
As many of you have been doing lately, I've been browsing poison rules for my new Alchemist. While doing so a couple of quotes at opposite ends of the Core Rulebook popped out at me that would explain the noticeably low DCs associated with poisons.
Poisons can be made using Craft (alchemy). The DC to make a poison is equal to its Fortitude save. Rolling a natural 1 on a Craft skill check while making a poison exposes the crafter to the poison. Crafters with the poison use class feature do not risk poisoning themselves when using Craft to make poison.
You may voluntarily add +10 to the indicated DC to craft an item. This allows you to create the item more quickly (since you'll be multiplying this higher DC by your Craft check result to determine progress). You must decide whether to increase the DC before you make each weekly or daily check.
Now what this seems to do when combined is allow the Alchemist to create even stronger poisons by simply adding +10 to the Craft DC. Such as making Drow Poison at DC 23 instead of 13. It seems abuse able at first, but when you think about other options such as concentrate poison or dose stacking, the power is pretty much in line with other options.
As many of you have been doing lately, I've been browsing poison rules for my new Alchemist. While doing so a couple of quotes at opposite ends of the Core Rulebook popped out at me that would explain the noticeably low DCs associated with poisons.
Poisons can be made using Craft (alchemy). The DC to make a poison is equal to its Fortitude save. Rolling a natural 1 on a Craft skill check while making a poison exposes the crafter to the poison. Crafters with the poison use class feature do not risk poisoning themselves when using Craft to make poison.You may voluntarily add +10 to the indicated DC to craft an item. This allows you to create the item more quickly (since you'll be multiplying this higher DC by your Craft check result to determine progress). You must decide whether to increase the DC before you make each weekly or daily check.Now what this seems to do when combined is allow the Alchemist to create even stronger poisons by simply adding +10 to the Craft DC. Such as making Drow Poison at DC 23 instead of 13. It seems abuse able at first, but when you think about other options such as concentrate poison or dose stacking, the power is pretty much in line with other options.
I actually read that as +10 to the DC of the alchemy check making it a harder check. the benefit is the work gets done faster
the end result is the poison with the same base DC of 13
I don't really see how you can increase the save DC of a fixed type of poison using that rule.
that said I wouldn't mind a set of rules for creating custom poisons where you choose DC, frequency, ability hit etc etc and plug that into an equation to get base price and DC to craft from it
As many of you have been doing lately, I've been browsing poison rules for my new Alchemist. While doing so a couple of quotes at opposite ends of the Core Rulebook popped out at me that would explain the noticeably low DCs associated with poisons.
Poisons can be made using Craft (alchemy). The DC to make a poison is equal to its Fortitude save. Rolling a natural 1 on a Craft skill check while making a poison exposes the crafter to the poison. Crafters with the poison use class feature do not risk poisoning themselves when using Craft to make poison.You may voluntarily add +10 to the indicated DC to craft an item. This allows you to create the item more quickly (since you'll be multiplying this higher DC by your Craft check result to determine progress). You must decide whether to increase the DC before you make each weekly or daily check.Now what this seems to do when combined is allow the Alchemist to create even stronger poisons by simply adding +10 to the Craft DC. Such as making Drow Poison at DC 23 instead of 13. It seems abuse able at first, but when you think about other options such as concentrate poison or dose stacking, the power is pretty much in line with other options.
No, you're getting cause and effect/source and result reversed.
Cause/Source: Fortitude save DC
Effect/Result: Craft DC
Note that the Craft DC does not change the save DC. It's a one-way relationship. You can increase the Craft DC, but doing so does not increase the save DC. If you want to increase the save DC, do something that will apply multiple doses at once (for example, throwing multiple injury-poison-tipped darts or tying a bundle of inhalation-poison-filled vials together and throwing them).
I have to disagree on this point, mathematically === or "Equals = Equals" Where "is equal to" is the term they used. "The DC to make a poison is equal to its Fortitude save." In any regard means that the two properties cannot be divorced from one another. Meaning if you enhance the DC to craft, it has an equivalent Fortitude save.
I have to disagree on this point, mathematically === or "Equals = Equals" Where "is equal to" is the term they used.
And yet, in computer programming, X = Y; Y = Z; does not mean X is equal to Z. This is actually the closer analogy to what is going on, for the record.
In any regard means that the two properties cannot be divorced from one another.
Not true:
I have two baskets, a red basket and a green basket.
I put one apple in both baskets. At this point, the number of apples in the red basket is equal to the number of apples in the green basket. Going by your assertion above, the number of apples in both would at all times in the future be equal.
I put one apple only in the red basket. At this point, the number of apples in the red basket is not equal to the number of apples in the green basket, counter to your assertion above.
It's not math though. English is very different from numbers, so the word "equal" in this sense isn't being used to indicate equality on two sides of an equation.
Rather, if you were to put it into computer language (to confuse the issue even more ;), it'd be like:
If you were to later go:
The Fortitude Save still remains whatever that entry in the poison table is.
This is how english works as well. If you take the sentence "Craft DC is equal to the Fortitude Save", that's a very different from saying "The Fortitude Save is equal to the Craft DC".
Now if it said "the Craft DC and the Fortitude Save are always the same", that's different.
The fact that the first two sentences mean completely different things, and that the third sentence can mean a third thing, tells us that it's not a two-way comparison.
Ninja! ... I like my computer analogy better, heh.
I have to disagree on this point, mathematically === or "Equals = Equals" Where "is equal to" is the term they used. "The DC to make a poison is equal to its Fortitude save." In any regard means that the two properties cannot be divorced from one another. Meaning if you enhance the DC to craft, it has an equivalent Fortitude save.
If this were mathematics, that argument might hold water, but this is a matter of game rules and thus semantics, and it takes a good bit of willful misinterpretation to make them read as something other than the obvious: The initial DC to make a poison is equal to the Fortitude save of that poison. Raising that DC allows that poison to be crafted more speedily but does not raise the Fortitude save.
I have to disagree on this point, mathematically === or "Equals = Equals" Where "is equal to" is the term they used.And yet, in computer programming, X = Y; Y = Z; does not mean X is equal to Z. This is actually the closer analogy to what is going on, for the record.
In any regard means that the two properties cannot be divorced from one another.Not true:
I have two baskets, a red basket and a green basket.
I put one apple in both baskets. At this point, the number of apples in the red basket is equal to the number of apples in the green basket. Going by your assertion above, the number of apples in both would at all times in the future be equal.
I put one apple only in the red basket. At this point, the number of apples in the red basket is not equal to the number of apples in the green basket, counter to your assertion above.
I apologize, that is certainly a regard in which the property of equal is divorced. At this point I do see your side of the argument and would be willing to accept such a reply from any DM, I remain obtuse to the purpose of devils advocacy and to keep the conversation going.
But to further your programming analogy under the statement of "The DC to make a poison is equal to its Fortitude save." we have an If statement. I do apologize for this, as I only learned rudimentary theory of programming years ago and it has since been unused. I'll likely embarrass myself.
EDIT: Better computer analogies did result in me embarrassing myself, analogy removed.