Boys have a penis, and girls have a vagina.
"I see you taught them the basics.... That's important."
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The way I handle it in the campaign I'm playing, if I feel want to make a character female I do, if I feel they should be male, BANG it's done. Luckily my group is pretty open minded in not making fun of those of us who cross gender RP(though at the moment, one of the females who play with us is getting made fun of cause she was lazy and basically wrote down, "Arnold from the first Conan movie." as her character's description.), we just play the damn game.
About Strength.
I ran a game once in which there was a gnome PC with a 26 strength. That was a lot of fun.
For a "Runequest Modern" idea I've been working on, my plan was to give female PCs a bonus to Dexterity and a penalty to Strength, but if someone didn't want to apply the modifiers, that would be okay. But for a D&D game, I have no problem with a female with a supermodel build and a 23 Strength.
The way it works out though, is that whether PC or NPC, female fighters tend to concentrate on Dexterity, using Weapon Finesse and Dodge bonuses to make their way, while male fighters are more likely to use Strength, Cleave, Power Attack, and other brute force methods.
Among the NPCs, you'll see more extremely strong males than females. And you'll see more extremely charismatic females, although I've instituted an NPC "Beauty" statistic to drive home the fact that an 18 Charisma is NOT the same as being "a babe" -- it means a force of personality which may or may not correlate with shapely curves and comely complexion.
People who give stat modifiers to gender are objectively bad people.
People who give stat modifiers to gender always do so in a way that demeans women and holds terrible sexist stereotypes up.
Don't do this. Do not be the creepy gamer that makes people hate the hobby.
When you're a new gamer, regardless of gender, very little makes you think "Wow, this hobby is really just a bunch of creephats. Nevermind" then seeing someone panting over their houserule about how women have to have different stats compared to men.
I am not sure which is worse, I could Godwin this thread or bring up FATAL.
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While I hate sex-based stat modifiers like AM hates humanity, I also have to say I hate the notion of visibly muscular and built female characters is in and of itself somehow wrong(and necessitating a drop in CHA, despite it never working that way for dudes).
But then I tend to bemoan the lack of "allowed" body type variety for female characters in games of all sorts anyway...
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On a side note...
Biologically speaking, women tend to be healthier then men and more resistent to disease. It's almost as if nature thinks that the survival of the female of the species is more important then the male for some off reason (clue...it is). They also have higher pain tolerence. Most guys can't even deal with wearing high heals for a day...much less child bearing/birth.
As for strength, men may have more arm strength, but women have WAY more leg strength. If your trained to fight, kicks and leg grapples are much more powerful tools then punches and arm grapples. Swing a swords generates power from the legs, not the arm (where as axes and maces are all arm). So the fighting style maybe different...but I assure you, women can hit VERY hard with many weapons. I have known a 5'5" lady knight who could swing her glaive about twice as hard as the 6'3" 260lb all muscle behemoth.
Women have a lot of power generation...it's just that most fighting is taught by men who have no clue about the differences so they get taught a lot of bad things for their body structure. In a lot of ways they can generate more force then male counterparts (remember sword techniques are powered by the hips and legs). So the idea of women being weaker or less hardy is stupid. In fact biologically speaking, men should have lower strength and con and higher dex. Biologically speaking men have better hand eye cooridination then women. That is something that has been bred over the ages as men were the hunters...who needed to be good at using missle weapons. Culturally, men have more charisma...charisma isn't looks, it's force of personality...and that trait is something more encourage in boys then girls. And yet, you see calls for the exact opposite in the guise of "realism". So basically until I see a call for men gets a bonus to dex and cha and women get a boost to str and con...it's just a bunch of chavanistic pigs who want to oggle at an imaginary babe...which is really just very VERY sad.
While I hate sex-based stat modifiers like AM hates humanity, I also have to say I hate the notion of visibly muscular and built female characters is in and of itself somehow wrong(and necessitating a drop in CHA, despite it never working that way for dudes).
But then I tend to bemoan the lack of "allowed" body type variety for female characters in games of all sorts anyway...
That's another thing I'll have to consider how to address some day.
Certainly the fantasy illustrations suggest that all fantasy heroines are muscular porn stars, but just because we in 20th-21st Century Earth like that sort of body, might characters in a fantasy world have a different opinion?
After all, the Chinese liked to squash women's feet until they were almost unusable, the Mayans squashed their faces, and a tribe in southeast Asia stretched their necks with copper rings.
But most D&D settings don't get into that level of detail, which is probably a good thing.
There was one female player who rolled an 18 Strength for her Fighter and therefore decided it had to be a male, not a female.
But I'm certainly in favor of 18 Strength female PCs. As noted above, I've played one myself, although actually her strength would probably be more like 20, if that's what an 18/75 converts to. There are enough 18 Strength female NPCs in my homebrew that one probably wouldn't raise many eyebrows.
An 18 strength female fighter would probably get bodyguard and palace guard job offers, regardless of her charisma. But if she wants to go out and slay dragons, that's her choice.
On a totally unrelated note, I was just chatting in a chatroom, and somebody accused my female PC of being a tramp, and I replied "Double standard!"
It seems that male PCs of chaotic alignment can have as many whores as they want, but if a female PC has sex with anybody, that makes her a "tramp".
So I was explaining how my PC is "serially monagamous" and how that is like many people in the United States these days.
Of course, my PC is the daughter of a barbarian shaman, and thus probably would have less strict rules on sexual behavior than the daughter of an aristocrat would have.
While I hate sex-based stat modifiers like AM hates humanity, I also have to say I hate the notion of visibly muscular and built female characters is in and of itself somehow wrong(and necessitating a drop in CHA, despite it never working that way for dudes).
But then I tend to bemoan the lack of "allowed" body type variety for female characters in games of all sorts anyway...
Hey, female body builders are pretty strong, but they don't fit into what (most) men would consider "beautiful". Men who are muscular are found attractive by more women than the opposite. There's really no denying that. That said, Charisma has less to do with attractiveness and more to do with confidence and force of personality imo, so if anything I'd think a woman with an impressive set of muscles would actually have a -higher- charisma because she's likely to be more confident and sure of herself than your average woman.
Me, I don't like the idea of female characters with obscenely high (natural) strength looking like bikini models anymore than I would a stick thin male character with a high strength. It's fantasy sure, but (at least to me) there should be at least a modicum of realism for such basic things. Is it fair to female characters? Not exactly, but does everything need to be an even and level playing field, even the things that don't affect the stats themselves?
It's funny... everyone's so worried about offending female gamers but my wife's the one who refuses to play a character with a strength higher than mid range. I don't force her to limit herself in the name of basic realism... she does it on her own! *laughs* So I think not all female gamers would take affront to these notions. They like male gamers are likely varied in opinions... some like strong, independent characters and some enjoy playing stereotypical "girlish" types. Heck, a lot of them probably even like to play both...
ON the other hand, I am reminded of the fact that in just about any science fiction TV show or movie, the actors and actresses will have hair styles close to what is current when the science fiction is filmed.
I really don't know what the players imagine when they think of my campaign. Usually my descriptions are like "She's wearing a white summer dress." Even if I put down a picture or a miniature, who's to say how close it is to what would _really_ be there if this were real?
Experts say that if you were to go back in time and witness the last Passover with Jesus and his disciples, it would not look at all like the famous painting of the scene.
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It's funny... everyone's so worried about offending female gamers but my wife's the one who refuses to play a character with a strength higher than mid range. I don't force her to limit herself in the name of basic realism... she does it on her own! *laughs* So I think not all female gamers would take affront to these notions. They like male gamers are likely varied in opinions... some like strong, independent characters and some enjoy playing stereotypical "girlish" types. Heck, a lot of them probably even like to play both...
But there's a huge difference between choosing not to play a certain concept and being told you can't. I think all in all it's much better for the game and the concept of the adventurers being a "cut above" to give everyone the opportunity to play what they would like to play.
I think that one of these days, I'll have to play a female gnome barbarian with maxed out strength.
Males cannot get pregnant and females can, by default.
But if you make a race of seahorse people it is the opposite.
I CANNOT MAKE JUDGEMENTS, THIS WORLD DOES NOT MAKE THE SENSE I THOUGHT IT WOULD. UP IS DOWN AND BACK IS FORWARD. MY ARMS ARE NOODLES.
IA IA C'THULHU F'TAGN
Awesome! Another Sexism thread! [/sarcasm]
I didn't intend it to be this way. I was looking for cultural observations, not an argument over how much female PCs should be allowed to lift.
There have been real life and fictional female warriors enough to justify not making adjustments do to being a woman.
The celtic queen Boudicca kicked Roman male ass and Joan of Arc led a losing French army to the threshold of victory. The Greek goddess Artemis was a godess of both intellect and war. Even LOTR had plenty of tough females, and Tolkien was rather old school.
Besides...chicks in leather armor are hot...I even watched Catwoman 3 times for that reason and that reason alone ;)
I once had a character I was never given the chance to play: a half-orc with gender identity issues. he felt he was a female elf trapped in a male half-orcs body. He had a special potion that turned him into one, and the running gag was going to be it wore off the minute he/she got amorous...now that I think about it, I really shouldn't have posted that........
"I see you taught them the basics.... That's important."Boys have a penis, and girls have a vagina.
Child: "Uncle Phil, do you have a penis?"
Uncle: "Yes, dear, I have a penis, I'm a boy."Child: "Daddy, do you have a penis?"
Father: "Yes dear, I have a penis."
Child: "Aunty Katie, do you have a penis?"
Aunt: "No dear, I have a vagina."
Child: "Mummy, do you have a penis."
Mother: "No, I have a vagina too."
Child: "Don't lie Mummy, I've seen it in your drawer!"
In the fantasy game I generally assume women to be a tad weaker on average, it is not something I will apply to PC's though.
If I really have to know wether this particular commoner has str 10 or 11 I might take it into account. There are alot of differences not easily expressed in stats, best game design is not to worry about it and let every individual group figure it out if they think such a thing is needed.
As to the OP in some cases rp considerations might make me take sex into account, in some rare cases it might modify a diplomacy check either negatively or positively. In battle some orc warriors might choose to attack males first, since they are disdainful of female warriors and possibly because they fear losing to one, though a mage or priest is very likely to be a different case.
Removing sex from the game as a whole makes it bland, enforcing sex roles on a regular basis isn't much fun for many players though I do not shy away from it and make use of it to enforce the feeling of cultural and religious differences. I also find it goes a long way towards making npcs particulary likable or disliked by the players, which sometimes is exactly what you want as DM.
There have been real life and fictional female warriors enough to justify not making adjustments do to being a woman.
The celtic queen Boudicca kicked Roman male ass and Joan of Arc led a losing French army to the threshold of victory. The Greek goddess Artemis was a godess of both intellect and war. Even LOTR had plenty of tough females, and Tolkien was rather old school.Besides...chicks in leather armor are hot...I even watched Catwoman 3 times for that reason and that reason alone ;)
I once had a character I was never given the chance to play: a half-orc with gender identity issues. he felt he was a female elf trapped in a male half-orcs body. He had a special potion that turned him into one, and the running gag was going to be it wore off the minute he/she got amorous...now that I think about it, I really shouldn't have posted that........
Well, if you go back to old school folklore, women warriors do tend to be depicted as being strong as (and sometimes stronger than) their male counterparts. On the other hand, women fighters in popular culture today tend to remain highly "feminine" according to pre-existing cultural standards, which means they tend to fight with finesse/cunning instead of raw strength.
Though I don't think that Joan or Boudica are good examples, really - weren't they pretty much leaders of armies, as opposed to being warriors? And Artemis was a bow chick - if anything, she fits the idea that female warriors have to "fight like girls."
In days of old... when gamers were almost exclusively men, then a certain element of stereotyping crept in when it came to women NPCs. Nowadays, in these enlightened times, equality is everything and our games reflect that attitude. We disapprove of racism and sexism and this features in our games. You could quote history and the place of women in past societies but where's the fun in that? Gamers, boys and girls alike, love a strong female lead, as does Joe Public (see Ripley et al in films like Alien). I tend to play male characters because that's what I'm comfortable with but that doesn't stop me playing elves or dwarves. Some other guy I know often plays female characters but won’t play a demi-human because he ‘doesn’t get them’. I avoid female characters for much the same reason. If I play an elf then it’s unlikely that one will turn up to the game and be unhappy with how I’m portraying their race, but with so many female gamers out there (vive le difference) the chance to offend is very real. Fantasy is not reality, it just has to be real enough for us to suspend disbelief. You could treat women as a different race (Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus) but why bother?
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Hey, female body builders are pretty strong, but they don't fit into what (most) men would consider "beautiful". Men who are muscular are found attractive by more women than the opposite.
Although there is the reverse, where men who are effeminate in appearance or behavior, even deliberately so, such as Jared Leto, are considered quite fine by many womenfolk.
Men can get away with looking hypermasculine or androgynous, but men hold women up to more limited definitions of what is beautiful.
At least until the beer starts flowing.
Gamers, boys and girls alike, love a strong female lead, as does Joe Public (see Ripley et al in films like Alien).
Ellen Ripley. Sarah Conner. Buffy Summers. Sidney Bristow. Aeryn Sun. Max/Dark Angel. Zoe Washburn. River Tam. We sci-fi/fantasy fans love us some kickass women!
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There have been real life and fictional female warriors enough to justify not making adjustments do to being a woman.
The celtic queen Boudicca kicked Roman male ass and Joan of Arc led a losing French army to the threshold of victory. The Greek goddess Artemis was a godess of both intellect and war. Even LOTR had plenty of tough females, and Tolkien was rather old school.Besides...chicks in leather armor are hot...I even watched Catwoman 3 times for that reason and that reason alone ;)
I once had a character I was never given the chance to play: a half-orc with gender identity issues. he felt he was a female elf trapped in a male half-orcs body. He had a special potion that turned him into one, and the running gag was going to be it wore off the minute he/she got amorous...now that I think about it, I really shouldn't have posted that........
Well, if you go back to old school folklore, women warriors do tend to be depicted as being strong as (and sometimes stronger than) their male counterparts. On the other hand, women fighters in popular culture today tend to remain highly "feminine" according to pre-existing cultural standards, which means they tend to fight with finesse/cunning instead of raw strength.
Though I don't think that Joan or Boudica are good examples, really - weren't they pretty much leaders of armies, as opposed to being warriors? And Artemis was a bow chick - if anything, she fits the idea that female warriors have to "fight like girls."
Artemis was the goddess of the hunt...not intellect and war. That was athena (who used a sword and shield). Boudica was a leader...but she was also a very fierce fighter in the stories. The amazons were feared bow fighters...but you have to realize that the bow was considered a manly weapon in that age. Hence why there was the bow challenge of odyseuss. And really, a bow IS a manly weapon. It requires a LOT of strength to use a warbow...100+ lb draw weights with 200 lb draw weights being not unknown.
There are examples of female characters that maintain both feminine and masculine characteristics - they just don't always appear in western media. See: Utena for a particularly awesome example.
There are examples of female characters that maintain both feminine and masculine characteristics - they just don't always appear in western media. See: Utena for a particularly awesome example.
anime has plenty more, but Utena is an awesome example.
I hope most of us can see that there is no reason why a female Fighter can't have a 23 Strength. However, most don't.
In Audor, it's not too odd to hear about a 5 foot 6, 130 pound woman throwing a handaxe at a 6 foot 4 half-orc Barbarian. Happens from time to time. It would be odd to see a 5 foot 6, 130 pound woman throw a 6 foot 4 half-orc Barbarian at a handaxe. People would be talking about THAT for decades.
But anybody running a female PC is certainly welcome to put together the options to be able to do that.
I would have liked it if the 3.5 rules had had grappling options that were perhaps more "realistic" for a 120 pound female monk. Perhaps options like "Monkey on the Back" and "Armbinding Pin". But, you can't have everything. Where would you put it.
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In days of old... when gamers were almost exclusively men, then a certain element of stereotyping crept in when it came to women NPCs. Nowadays, in these enlightened times, equality is everything and our games reflect that attitude. We disapprove of racism and sexism and this features in our games. You could quote history and the place of women in past societies but where's the fun in that? Gamers, boys and girls alike, love a strong female lead, as does Joe Public (see Ripley et al in films like Alien). I tend to play male characters because that's what I'm comfortable with but that doesn't stop me playing elves or dwarves. Some other guy I know often plays female characters but won’t play a demi-human because he ‘doesn’t get them’. I avoid female characters for much the same reason. If I play an elf then it’s unlikely that one will turn up to the game and be unhappy with how I’m portraying their race, but with so many female gamers out there (vive le difference) the chance to offend is very real. Fantasy is not reality, it just has to be real enough for us to suspend disbelief. You could treat women as a different race (Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus) but why bother?
Not entirely true. Third edition/3.5 had plenty of things that were female only. the only (kinda) male only prc was the eunuch warlord from the asian setting.
A three year old lacks the development to be a stand in for a halfling. I suspect you'd have more 'realistic' results by comparing the strongest 3 foot tall adult you can find.another thing to consider: If the difference in strength between a 3 foot tall halfling - about the height of a human toddler - is only two less than that of a full adult human in its prime, I don't think the differences between an extremely strong human male and an extremely strong human female is measurable in integers on the current stat scale.
Seriously. Find the strongest 3 year old you can and compare their ability to lift weights versus yours. That's a -2.
Actually I'm not sure teh comparison is all that apt. Consider how strong chimps are relative to their size. Once you cross species lines, all bets are off.