Raising a Skeletal Champion

[ntin]

Is there a way for a player to raise a corpse as a Skeletal Champion? Under Variant Skeleton on the Skeleton entry in the Bestiary it mentions that animate dead is not potent enough to create a Skeletal Champion. More powerful versions of animate dead like create undead or create greater undead do not mention Skeletal Champion as an option.

[Mikaze]

I'd propose letting the resulting champion fill in for its HD equivalent in one of the create undead spells as a first option.

Then there's spell research if the group uses it. Some variation of Awaken could fly if one goes with the idea that a skeleton contains a chained soul with no mind.

From a visual aesthetic, I like the idea of Magic Jar'ed/Trap The Soul'ed gem being embedded in the skull of a skeleton, magical patterns etched all around it, containing a willing/unwilling soul and imbuing the skeleton with an intelligent mind and greater potency. Probably with cheaper materiel involved than the stuff you need for standard soul trappin' maybe.

[Madcap Storm King]

You could use a more powerful spell to do so, or you could chalk it up to random chance for each skeleton with class levels, something like 5%.

[Majuba]

I'm sure you've read it, but the variant skeleton rules also say, "these potent undead only arise under rare conditions similar to those that cause the manifestation of ghosts or via rare and highly evil rituals."

As not even Create Greater Undead will allow you to create ghosts, it looks like you're somewhat out of luck as far as those spells go. A custom 9th level spell would probably do the job.

In prior editions, a skeletal champion would under the control of whomever wore its circlet, a valuable item just from materials. I'd put the minimum costs of that at 100 gp/HD, if you did find a method to create one.

It could also be similar to lichdom, requiring a unique ritual for every individual (corpse... or not?) you try to convert into one.

[Patrick Murphy]

I am wondering why such a thing as a spell or circlet needs be so expensive. The creature in the Beastiary is CR 2 and can be a free thinker. A ghoul is a free thinker with CR 1. If a Ghoul can be created with a level 6 spell, could not a Skeletal Champion be created with a level 7 spell. I don't know if it is powerful enough to warrant create greater undead. What do you think?

I really wanted to have a skeletal champion for my 5th level sorcerer with necromancy bloodline. He has a 'bones' motif and is specializing in spells/abilities around bones and skeletons. A skeletal champion would be perfect for this. It seems though that it would be too powerful to make with animate dead (a spell that is right around the corner for me). I guess I'll have to wait.

Perhaps a circlet can be made with craft wonderous item feat. Any thoughts?

[Kryzbyn]

Raising skeletal champions can be aggrivating. You think it's tough now, wait till it's 16 and starts taking your car without permission.

[Remco Sommeling]

Patrick Murphy wrote:

I am wondering why such a thing as a spell or circlet needs be so expensive. The creature in the Beastiary is CR 2 and can be a free thinker. A ghoul is a free thinker with CR 1. If a Ghoul can be created with a level 6 spell, could not a Skeletal Champion be created with a level 7 spell. I don't know if it is powerful enough to warrant create greater undead. What do you think?

I really wanted to have a skeletal champion for my 5th level sorcerer with necromancy bloodline. He has a 'bones' motif and is specializing in spells/abilities around bones and skeletons. A skeletal champion would be perfect for this. It seems though that it would be too powerful to make with animate dead (a spell that is right around the corner for me). I guess I'll have to wait.

Perhaps a circlet can be made with craft wonderous item feat. Any thoughts?

I would suggest taking the leadership feat and work something out with your DM.

[Patrick Murphy]

Kryzbyn wrote:

Raising skeletal champions can be aggrivating. You think it's tough now, wait till it's 16 and starts taking your car without permission.

Ha! I have two under three right now. I am definately not looking forward to when they are 15 and 16.

[Patrick Murphy]

Remco Sommeling wrote:

Patrick Murphy wrote:

I am wondering why such a thing as a spell or circlet needs be so expensive. The creature in the Beastiary is CR 2 and can be a free thinker. A ghoul is a free thinker with CR 1. If a Ghoul can be created with a level 6 spell, could not a Skeletal Champion be created with a level 7 spell. I don't know if it is powerful enough to warrant create greater undead. What do you think?

I really wanted to have a skeletal champion for my 5th level sorcerer with necromancy bloodline. He has a 'bones' motif and is specializing in spells/abilities around bones and skeletons. A skeletal champion would be perfect for this. It seems though that it would be too powerful to make with animate dead (a spell that is right around the corner for me). I guess I'll have to wait.

Perhaps a circlet can be made with craft wonderous item feat. Any thoughts?

I would suggest taking the leadership feat and work something out with your DM.

Yeah I think we came to an agreement on that. Still I wish it were easier to know how all the undead types can be created, you know! Look at all the great creature/monsters of the undead type; some can be made, others spawned by one of their own, but even those can be created via create greater undead (mainly). So many others are self-generating under certain conditions, but wouldn't it be great to have clear means of creating many of those too? I think it would be knowledge necromancers would work for.

I know mine is doing that.

[Remco Sommeling]

Patrick Murphy wrote:

Remco Sommeling wrote:

Patrick Murphy wrote:

I am wondering why such a thing as a spell or circlet needs be so expensive. The creature in the Beastiary is CR 2 and can be a free thinker. A ghoul is a free thinker with CR 1. If a Ghoul can be created with a level 6 spell, could not a Skeletal Champion be created with a level 7 spell. I don't know if it is powerful enough to warrant create greater undead. What do you think?

I really wanted to have a skeletal champion for my 5th level sorcerer with necromancy bloodline. He has a 'bones' motif and is specializing in spells/abilities around bones and skeletons. A skeletal champion would be perfect for this. It seems though that it would be too powerful to make with animate dead (a spell that is right around the corner for me). I guess I'll have to wait.

Perhaps a circlet can be made with craft wonderous item feat. Any thoughts?

I would suggest taking the leadership feat and work something out with your DM.

Yeah I think we came to an agreement on that. Still I wish it were easier to know how all the undead types can be created, you know! Look at all the great creature/monsters of the undead type; some can be made, others spawned by one of their own, but even those can be created via create greater undead (mainly). So many others are self-generating under certain conditions, but wouldn't it be great to have clear means of creating many of those too? I think it would be knowledge necromancers would work for.

I know mine is doing that.

Well in this case it could be an obscure ritual or a pact with a dark power, using the leadership feat representing this works fine I think.

Maybe if you limit your character by specifying or designing some additional drawbacks of the dark pact you might earn a higher effective charisma for purposes of the leadership feat.

- vulnerability to silver
- sinister appearance, eyes have no pupils, twisted hands.
- A brand on your flesh, designating you serve a dark master
- weakened somehow in sunlight
- drinking fresh blood to sustain yourself
- might require occasional acts that bring evil or chaos in the world

just spouting ideas :)

[Thomas LeBlanc]

I think this would make a great idea for a quest to recover the ritual needed to create the Skeletal Champion.

• Delve into a crypt.
• Infiltrate the clergy of a god of the dead.
• Ask a Lich.
• Search through a collapsed temple.
• Go to the negative energy plane for a tome.

Just giving stuff to the players is no fun. At higher levels I make them earn there special abilities and spells. Not all but some. Makes getting the Quivering Palm more exciting if you have to defeat a master monk.

[Patrick Murphy]

I also like the masterwork and superior skeletons mentioned in the Hallowfaust book of Scarred Lands Campaign. I pitched creating these using the create skeleton spell I know now, but with more research thrown in (and cost of course). I am trying to treat it as spell research.

I just want to make it fair. I don't want a huge amount of work for just a little payoff. If I can replicate said skeletons, or get another skeletal champion along the way if mine gets destroyed, then that would be ok. If this is just a one-time shot, then I wouldn't bother.

[Bomanz]

Am I just dense or where does it say that the skeletal champion is an intelligent undead? I was really hoping that as a mindless minion I could create this as an added cost to the "Animate Dead" spell, and actually have a minion worthy of anything other than going splat in one round.

[cwslyclgh]

The skeletal champion is indeed intelligent and free willed (for the most part).

[Patrick Murphy]

I remember reading somewhere that they can be an option as a cohort I think for Undead Leadership (was it in the Beastiary?). Anyway, I like that idea so I am sticking with it for now. It will be awhile before I can create undead (via the spell) at any rate.

[ddgon]

I know the rules say you can't make them. But what if you found a ritual that uses the lvl 3 spell (it is a skeletan) but the person (target of spell) has to die willingly and when so raised is NOT under command of the caster. and maybe immunne to the caster's attemps to controle it for 24 hours. So that the caster can't just get a new pet.

Would be more for getting a cohort or for a fellow pc. Basicaly the caster casts the spell, killing the person. That person gets a choice to come back as a Skeletal Champion or not. No save, just a yes or no.

[reefwood]

ddgon wrote:

I know the rules say you can't make them. But what if you found a ritual that uses the lvl 3 spell (it is a skeletan) but the person (target of spell) has to die willingly and when so raised is NOT under command of the caster. and maybe immunne to the caster's attemps to controle it for 24 hours. So that the caster can't just get a new pet.

Would be more for getting a cohort or for a fellow pc. Basicaly the caster casts the spell, killing the person. That person gets a choice to come back as a Skeletal Champion or not. No save, just a yes or no.

I think there could be countless ways to create a skeletal champion, or for one to be created by some force or powerful being. It is just one of those things that is up to the DM in the end.

In my campaign, I have a player that took the Leadership feat and wanted a Skeletal Champion cohort. This PC was a fairly powerful necromancer in the setting by this point, and in an earlier adventure, this PC helped to capture a vampire that some more powerful people wanted. Therefore, I said that these other more powerful people gave him a special one-time ritual book that would allow him to create one Skeletal Champion.

He is a necromancer, so the Skeletal Champion seemed like a fitting cohort, and he already had connections to people who dealt with powerful undead, so there was a good reason for him coming across the proper info to do this.

As for your example...it sounds pretty good, but I wouldn't bother with the 24-hr limit for control. It seems like using the standard control methods would be fine, and if the creator does not get control, this Skeletal Champion would probably attack the creator or run off, unless the creator can convince the SC to do otherwise... and it seems like any of these options could lead to interesting situations/side adventures.