When an AA gets the ability to enhance his arrows with and element at 3rd level, would that stack with an element already on his bow?
I know if you choose cold, it wouldn't stack with cold already on the bow(I would guess) but would it stack with the fire ability?
Therefore getting 1d6 cold and fire or does one override the other?
It doesn't necessarily have to be cold and fire. That was just mainly an example.
Say you had an X longbow and X = any element. At 3rd level, an arcane archer chooses an element for his nonmagical arrows, be it frost, fire, or cold.
Would the AA 3rd lvl ability stack with X longbow or would it override it?
Would they stack if they were the same element?
When an AA gets the ability to enhance his arrows with and element at 3rd level, would that stack with an element already on his bow?
I know if you choose cold, it wouldn't stack with cold already on the bow(I would guess) but would it stack with the fire ability?
Therefore getting 1d6 cold and fire or does one override the other?
I allow it in my games, the image of spiralling drafts of flame and frost on the arrows kind of made it nice for us.
I also house ruled that altought the +1 enhancement (1st level) doesn't stack with other enhancement it does bump the bonus up one step in the DR overcoming equivalence. It makes it a little advantage that stays useful at the level of the AA.
EDIT: It also lowers the amount of varied arrows the AA has to manage/book keep.
When an AA gets the ability to enhance his arrows with and element at 3rd level, would that stack with an element already on his bow?
I know if you choose cold, it wouldn't stack with cold already on the bow(I would guess) but would it stack with the fire ability?
Therefore getting 1d6 cold and fire or does one override the other?
I allow it in my games, the image of spiralling drafts of flame and frost on the arrows kind of made it nice for us.
I also house ruled that altought the +1 enhancement (1st level) doesn't stack with other enhancement it does bump the bonus up one step in the DR overcoming equivalence. It makes it a little advantage that stays useful at the level of the AA.
EDIT: It also lowers the amount of varied arrows the AA has to manage/book keep.
So basically you have to house rule the elements portion of it?
And the +1 enhancement doesn't stack with a magical bow, normally? Or does that have to be house ruled as well?
When you're using the AA, you'll find you have to be careful about what bow you use. The abilities you add don't necessarily stack (best enhancement bonus applies, for example) but they don't cancel each other out (yes, your flaming bow can fire frost arrows). The one limit that you worry about is you can't go over +10 for the effective enhancement bonus; this came up in a thread a few weeks ago regarding a paladin's divine bond ability.
So what I'm getting is, if you have, say, a +2 Comp longbow, the +1 arrow an AA can create from a nonmagical arrow doesn't stack with the +2 Comp longbow?
But the flaming, frost, or shock, Comp longbow does stack with the 3rd level AA elemental ability? And would it stack if it's the same element?
As long as they don't surpass the +10 enhancement bonus of course.
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So what I'm getting is, if you have, say, a +2 Comp longbow, the +1 arrow an AA can create from a nonmagical arrow doesn't stack with the +2 Comp longbow?
But the flaming, frost, or shock, Comp longbow does stack with the 3rd level AA elemental ability? And would it stack if it's the same element?
As long as they don't surpass the +10 enhancement bonus of course.
Yes, yes, and no in that order. Functionally identical effects almost never stack. I could dredge up the RAW on why that is but an +1 Flaming arrow fired from a +1 Flaming compound longbow will still only be a +1 Flaming Arrow. It would get even more weird if you wanted to THEN apply the 3rd level ability and try to add Flaming a third time. So in this case it is better to diversify your enchantments.
My advice is get a non elemental enchantment and a high enhancement put on your Compound longbow, rely on the 3rd level ability, and then if you are REALLY wealthy, stack up on some elemental arrows.
Enhancement bonuses never stack
At 1st level, every nonmagical arrow an arcane archer nocks and lets fly becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus. Unlike magic weapons created by normal means, the archer need not spend gold pieces to accomplish this task. However, an archer's magic arrows only function for him.
as stated above it only applies to non magical arrows:
The bonuses granted by a magic bow apply as normal to arrows that have been enhanced with this ability. Only the larger enhancement bonus applies. Duplicate abilities do not stack.
meaning a +5 speeding, flaming burst long bow firing a +1 frosting burst, holy, distance arrows has a +5 to hit and damage, deals 1d6 fire (More on a crit) 1d6 cold (more on a crit), and +2d6 vs evil, with double the normal range and you would get 1 extra attack per round).
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meaning a +5 speeding, flaming burst long bow firing a +1 frosting burst, holy, distance arrows has a +5 to hit and damage, deals 1d6 fire (More on a crit) 1d6 cold (more on a crit), and +2d6 vs evil, with double the normal range and you would get 1 extra attack per round).
Not a possible combination here, you exceeded the total +5 magical ability enhancement here.
Speeding
Flaming
Burst
From the bow is +3
Frost
Burst
Holy
Distance
This arrow adds +4 by itself.
You have to decide which of the abilities to keep, not sure how that works exactly but... yeah +5/+7 arrows are off limits.
The only thing that doesn't stack is the enhancement bonus and duplicated abilities. Weapon abilities from ammunition and a bow (Crossbow, Blowgun, etc.) have always stacked (nothing that says they don't, otherwise magical ammunition is pointless.).
You can go up to a +10 bonus with weapon special abilities(flaming, speed keen, etc), you can only have a +5 enhancement bonus (the flat bonus to hit and damage).
P.S. I thought flaming burst was +2, my bad.
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The only thing that doesn't stack is the enhancement bonus and duplicated abilities. Weapon abilities from ammunition and a bow (Crossbow, Blowgun, etc.) have always stacked (nothing that says they don't, otherwise magical ammunition is pointless.).
You can go up to a +10 bonus with weapon special abilities(flaming, speed keen, etc), you can only have a +5 enhancement bonus (the flat bonus to hit and damage).
P.S. I thought flaming burst was +2, my bad.
magical ammo would still have a point, use in non magical bows. granted its not very useful, but it has uses (equiping 5 archer on a scouting party with a few magic arrows each)
and flaming burst is a +2but idk if you can have +5 arrows with +10 of enchntments, i thought it topped out at +5/+5 (even when stackin arrows and bow magic). i may be wrong tho
the above posters are correct. if a +5 bow with +5 worth of abilities is used to fire a +5 arrow with +5 worth of abilities the arrow can only hold +10 total by raw. The player chooses what bonuses and abilities take place and if the choice is forfeited the GM decides. now, this could be an arrow that is +5 with +5 worth of abilities, +1 with +9 worth of abilities (if there legal-some must be at least +2 or greater to have a curtain enhancement), or can be combined an other way the player chooses that is legal. keep in mind that Bane is still treated as a +1 enhancement bonus NOT +2. I think an AA can only use there ability on NON magical arrows however so keep that in mind, it still follows the rules of a weapon maxing at +10. example- An AA could use a +5 bow with +5 worth of abilities and use his ability to make a non magical arrow FROST but he would have to negate a +1 ability off of the bow to have any effect.
Now this has been debated that this ruling(which is raw)nerfs the AA of his classes abilities but that's not the case. There is some serious power potential in this formula and the limitations can be circumvented if done smartly.
I had the same issue come up with an AA pc in my campaign i was running so i helped him see something he didn't. most people make the same mistake " what i can't make an arrow fired be +5 with +15 abilities that makes this class worthless!" That just is NOT the case. most players think that just because the class is ARCANE ARCHER they have to dump all there cash into there bow to make there bow an "ultimate killer". First off Arcane archers can save a LOT of cash not needing to have flaming,frost,etc added to the bow and arrows. My player ended up having 2 bows with completely different abilities and upgraded a few times to get a higher strength COMPOSITE bow. he ended up having a +6 to STR belt, a +6 to DEX gauntlets, and a composite bow made for 24 STR, and one for 28 str for potions of bullstrength. he also had quite a few arrows of slaying lol. there's options and versatility to the arcane archer, you just have to see past the maxing out the bow at every angle.
Just a few problems...
he ended up having a +6 to STR belt, a +6 to DEX gauntlets
All stat items in PF are belts(Str, Dex, and Con) or headbands (Int, Wis, and Cha)
and one for 28 str for potions of bullstrength
potions of bulls strength would not sack with the belt, they are both enhancment bonuses
Finally the bow and the arrow are 2 different Items used (by necessity) together. The only things that don't stack by the RAW is the enhancement bonuses and duplicate abilities.
Ranged Weapons and Ammunition: The enhancement bonus from a ranged weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus from ammunition. Only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies.Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon.
Magic Ammunition and Breakage: When a magic arrow, crossbow bolt, or sling bullet misses its target, there is a 50% chance it breaks or is otherwise rendered useless. A magic arrow, bolt, or bullet that successfully hits a target is automatically destroyed after it delivers its damage.
Nothing about anything not stacking besides the enhancement bonuses.
So, in essence, if you have a magical bow, the +1 enhancement of nonmagical arrows the AA gets is useless. I was thinking that may be the case but wasn't sure if the AA class might be different.
Seems a little strange seeing how by 7th level you, (more times than not), are probably gonna have a +1 bow by then. Seems like a wasted/useless ability really. If the magic of the bow confers it to the ammo, what's the point of the 1st level ability?
That's why I was thinking it might be different for the AA.
But everything else would stack as long as they don't duplicate. And don't exceed +10.
That's the gist of what I'm getting on this.
Appreciate all the posts on this. I didn't realize how interesting this was gonna be. Turns out to be more involved than I thought.
Thanks!
Just a few problems...
he ended up having a +6 to STR belt, a +6 to DEX gauntletsAll stat items in PF are belts(Str, Dex, and Con) or headbands (Int, Wis, and Cha)
and one for 28 str for potions of bullstrengthpotions of bulls strength would not sack with the belt, they are both enhancment bonuses
Finally the bow and the arrow are 2 different Items used (by necessity) together. The only things that don't stack by the RAW is the enhancement bonuses and duplicate abilities.
maybe in your pathfinder game but not mine ;) i still use the 3.5 rules on item slots, bonuses, and item costs. I don't play by raw, to many limitations. if my players want gloves of dexterity that provide a sacred bonus, well it's my campaign. but the real point i was trying to make was that an AA does have options instead of dumping all his gold into his bow.
Nothing about anything not stacking besides the enhancement bonuses.
Ranged Weapons and Ammunition: The enhancement bonus from a ranged weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus from ammunition. Only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies.Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon.
Magic Ammunition and Breakage: When a magic arrow, crossbow bolt, or sling bullet misses its target, there is a 50% chance it breaks or is otherwise rendered useless. A magic arrow, bolt, or bullet that successfully hits a target is automatically destroyed after it delivers its damage.
it does not say it there but i did read it on another thread were the question was anwsered by the pathfinder crew, was a thread about a paladins ability. you CANNOT take an item over a +10 bonus period end of story. be it enhancements, other magical items,spells, or even class abilities. and yes that includes firing arrows from magic bows that transfer the abiliites to the arrow. an arrow can ONLY hold up to +10 worth of enchantments.
Did the PF crew state this specifically about the bow, or assuming by what he said (Can you tell me which thread it was so I can read it myself?)
Did the PF crew state this specifically about the bow, or assuming by what he said (Can you tell me which thread it was so I can read it myself?)
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/divineBondOver9000&page=2
thats the thread that started and ended it all. while the AA ability is different from the paladins divine bond ability the formule and result is the same. there's some good threads posted about the AA and magical bows and arrows just search "arcane archer" or "magical bows and arrows". while you may disagree with the ruling this is how it's been rules for pathfinder society play.
CHEERS.
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All stat items in PF are belts(Str, Dex, and Con) or headbands (Int, Wis, and Cha)
There's no rule restricting this, that's simply the way they are in the pre-determined Magic Items section. If you have Craft Wondrous Items, you can make Dex Gauntlets. There's nothing in RAW that says "Stat items must be belts or headbands".
In fact, check out Ioun Stones. They can add to abilities and aren't belts or headbands.