I know that unlike scrolls, potions don't require special skills/feats/classes to use for others in your party. For the character I'm thinking of creating, I don't think that is relevant. Apart from this, why would you ever pick brew potion over scribe scrolls as a feat selection?
Points to consider:
1. Scrolls are cheaper to make. They have a cheaper base cost. This is really important as it means a spell caster can create up to a 2nd level scroll in just 2 hours. A 2nd level potion takes a day to create. The implications are that a character with brew potion feat will only be able to create 1st level potions while adventuring when a party rests.
2. For scrolls, you only need your writing implements, parchment and material components to create. Potions, on the other hand, need "a level working surface and at least a few containers in which to mix liquids, as well as a source of heat to boil the brew" and material components to create. Naturally, this would be more difficult to set up when adventuring.
3. You can create scrolls of any level. Potions can only be created from 1st to 3rd level.
4. You only need to be 1st level to scribe a scroll. Unless you are a witch, you must be minimum of 3rd level to be able to brew a potion.
5. Scrolls can have multiple spells inscribed on a single parchment. A vial can contain only one potion.
It seems to me that the scribe scrolls feat is simply far, far better than brew potion from an optimisation point of view. Have I overlooked anything?
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Potions don't require verbal or somatic componets, and don't require you being able to see to use them (assuming you can get you hands on the right one), so they can be used in situations where a scroll cannot. They also allow you access to spells not on your spell list (eg. invisibility for clerics, cure x wounds for wizards).
For many purposes, scrolls really are great. You can keep one or two of those utility spells you don't normally memorize or have a reserve of your most frequently used spells on hand (although a wand is more cost effective within its level limits). The only drawback is that they only use the minimum attribute score and caster level needed to cast the spell (although CL can be boosted by spending more), so the save DC's tend to be lower.
A big reason that I find a lot of people miss: You can't scribe a scroll of a spell you don't know. However, you CAN make a potion of a spell you don't know, provided you can make the Spellcraft check.
A wizard could make healing potions even though he can't cast cure spells, or a cleric could make mage armor potions to protect that important-to-the-story-line soft, unarmored NPC.
A similar question is why anyone would buy potions instead of scrolls.
As it turns out, many characters have good reasons to buy potions instead of scrolls. ;)
Optimally, spellcasters often have a party support role that is important. And optimizing the entire party's access to resources can be very beneficial.
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Potions are by far a better option if the DM isn't trying to nickle and dime you to death. Limiting the amount of actions needed to get everyone buffed up is very handy in longer fights, potions can be fed down the throats of those who are unconscious and there are lots of personal spells you can put into them that scrolls don't help with.
Plus you know a Scroll of Lesser Restoration takes 3 rounds to cast, a Potion only takes 1 standard action to drink. Very useful.
Only spell completion items do not allow you to add a +5 to the DC to create for not knowing a spell. Other magic items can be made even if you do not have access to the spell required to make the item.
And to the OP. If you are a caster, scribe scroll is better in most cases. If you are not a potion is always better. One other thing to consider is casting a spell from a scroll suffers the same effects as casting a spell for disruption purposes. Drinking a potion may cause an attack of opportunity... but you still get to drink the potion.
When my cleric Traeranna got to 3rd level, she took Brew Potion so that she could give everybody in the party healing potions and they wouldn't need her to cast Cure Light Wounds all the time.
When my cleric Traeranna got to 3rd level, she took Brew Potion so that she could give everybody in the party healing potions and they wouldn't need her to cast Cure Light Wounds all the time.
So she crafted them a Keg of CLW? Now they just need beer hats and they can drink them in combat without a free hand...maybe even with no AoO! ^_-
Scenario:
Cleric is down with one hit point before death, bleeding and none of the other members of the party has the skill to read his chest full scrolls. What's worth more at that point, 10 scrolls or one lousy potion?
While the scenario is a valid one, I think you are forgetting that a cure wounds potion can be easily bought or found while adventuring and any party worth their salt will have a few left up their sleeve for such an emergency. So picking Scribe Scroll as a feat does not preclude you from buying potions or using them in an emergency.
Meanwhile, your caster can be pumping out a 2nd level spell every time the party rests versus only a 1st level potion if brewing conditions are suitable.
Potions don't require verbal or somatic componets, and don't require you being able to see to use them (assuming you can get you hands on the right one), so they can be used in situations where a scroll cannot. They also allow you access to spells not on your spell list (eg. invisibility for clerics, cure x wounds for wizards).
While this might not be a very common situation, I'll grant you that under those circumstances potions are obviously better.
The only drawback is that they only use the minimum attribute score and caster level needed to cast the spell (although CL can be boosted by spending more), so the save DC's tend to be lower.
You made me realise that I had left out another advantage of scrolls. You can only make potions that target an individual while scrolls don't have this limitation. While it's true that the DC may not be as good, you still have that spell as an option for scribing a scroll. You can't drink a potion of fireball.
Plus you know a Scroll of Lesser Restoration takes 3 rounds to cast, a Potion only takes 1 standard action to drink. Very useful.
I had not considered this point. This is clearly a mark in favour of choosing Brew Potion feat over Scribe Scrolls.
However, I still think there are many more advantages to choosing Scribe Scroll as a spellcaster. The most telling point for me is only being able to realistically create 1st level potions while adventuring due to the time limitations imposed in the creation process for potions 2nd level or greater taking at least a day to brew.
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From a PC standpoint, I'd rather have Scribe Scroll for my own personal use. (And Improved Initiative or Toughness over either...)
From an NPC standpoint, *every* Wizard has Scribe Scroll for free (and various Clerics of Irori, Nethys, etc. who have the Rune Domain as well), meaning that the market in scroll sales is craptacularly through the floor, and only people of that specific class are in your purchasing demographic, which hugely limits your sales options. (So, even if you are a Druid, and no Druid gets free Scribe Scroll, your target market for those sexy Druid spells is too small to be worth the expense of a feat.]
*Anyone* can buy and benefit from a Potion, and no core class gets Brew Potion as a 'freebie,' so the demand is vastly larger, and the supply is smaller. An NPC crafter makes sense to pick up Brew Potion, Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Magic Arms & Armor first thing, with Scribe Scroll, Craft Wand, Craft Rod, Craft Ring, etc. being later picks, if at all.
[The only reason I'd take Craft Rod, for instance, is to make my own Metamagic Rods, since they suck up a lot of gold, and even then, few would think it's worth a feat...]
When my cleric Traeranna got to 3rd level, she took Brew Potion so that she could give everybody in the party healing potions and they wouldn't need her to cast Cure Light Wounds all the time.So she crafted them a Keg of CLW? Now they just need beer hats and they can drink them in combat without a free hand...maybe even with no AoO! ^_-
That would be quite appropriate, since Traeranna's patron deity was the goddess of taverns.
I know that unlike scrolls, potions don't require special skills/feats/classes to use for others in your party. For the character I'm thinking of creating, I don't think that is relevant. Apart from this, why would you ever pick brew potion over scribe scrolls as a feat selection?
For a PC, especially a full caster, Scribe Scroll is usually a better choice than Brew Potion; IMO pretty much every other item creation feat is more useful. However, a lot depends on the character concept, the campaign, and the rest of the party; Brew Potion is a "good" choice thematically for a character with Craft (Alchemy), for instance. For a PC caster who wants to create a bunch of magic items, I'd rank the feats in this order (the order in which to take them):
1) Scribe Scroll. Take at 1st level if possible, especially for clerics, druids, and wizards (who get it for free), to provide more staying power (number of spells) and versatility (situational spells); it's less useful for bards and sorcerers (as they do not prepare spells), but can still be used to increase the number of spells they can cast.
2) Craft Wondrous Item. Take at 3rd level; if you only take one item creation feat, take this one; the sheer number of items this feat allows (even if the GM bans custom items) makes it the most useful item creation feat by far.
3) Craft Wand. Take at 5th level; wands are the most cost-effective items for creating spell effects, especially for spells without saves; a mid-level party with a couple wands of acid arrow, barkskin, cure light wounds, lesser restoration, magic missile (CL 3 or 5), ray of enfeeblement, scorching ray, etc. (depending on the character(s) with the feat) is much tougher than one without.
4) Craft Magic Arms and Armor (possibly). Generally useful to create and (especially) upgrade armor and weapons for the entire party, but it might be better to have non-casters (or semi-casters such as paladins and rangers) with high Craft (Armor), Craft (Bows), and/or Craft (Weapons) and Master Craftsman.
5) Forge Ring. Take at 7th level; many rings (such as rings of protection) are "must have" items.
6) Craft Rod. Take at 9th level; being able to make your own metamagic rods is a huge benefit; other rods combine the abilities of weapons and wondrous items.
7) Craft Staff. Take at 11th level; as the game moves into high-level play, staves start to replace wands for creating spell effects; certain low-level spells (such as cure light wounds) are still more cost effective in wands and the limited charges in a staff keep wands from being completely replaced.
For an NPC caster, especially an adept, Brew Potion can be an attractive choice. At 50gp market value, a 1st level spell potion is affordable to many more people than a once per day wondrous item (360 gp). Also, the potion can be used by anyone, instead of being limited as a spell-completion item like a scroll or a spell-trigger item like a wand. Most "magic shops" (as much as some GMs hate the concept) will have mainly potions available, as they are probably the only items that can sell enough volume to be economically feasible as a business model. Even in large cities, potions will probably be the core of any "magic shop" stock; there might be a handful of other items on hand (i.e., unclaimed commissioned items, items sold to the shop, etc.), but everything else will probably be handled on a commission basis.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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4) Craft Magic Arms and Armor (possibly). Generally useful to create and (especially) upgrade armor and weapons for the entire party, but it might be better to have non-casters (or semi-casters such as paladins and rangers) with high Craft (Armor), Craft (Bows), and/or Craft (Weapons) and Master Craftsman.
Don't forget, Craft Magic Arms and Armor is also a prerequisite for Craft Construct!
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2) Craft Wondrous Item. Take at 3rd level; if you only take one item creation feat, take this one; the sheer number of items this feat allows (even if the GM bans custom items) makes it the most useful item creation feat by far.
Agreed!
Looking at the 'must have' magic items, Craft Wondrous Item is great for stat-enhancers, haversacks, bracers of armor, amulets of natural armor, cloaks of resistance, ioun stones and, at the highest levels, permanant stat-enhancing tomes.
Depending on your class, the ability to craft your own Pearls of Power or Memento Mori/Runestaves/whatever (whatever Sorcerer equivalent to a Pearl of Power exists in your game/setting) could be handy as well.
Plus you can end-run around the Brew Potion feat to a lesser extent with one-shot items like Elixirs, Dusts, Ointments, Feather Tokens, Necklaces of Missiles, etc.
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*Anyone* can buy and benefit from a Potion, and no core class gets Brew Potion as a 'freebie,' so the demand is vastly larger, and the supply is smaller.
Not true anymore, Alchemists get the feat at level 1, though if you consider that core or not I suppose is debatable :) Plus they can make a few nice potions most others cannot, thanks to ambiguous wording of the class ability and lack of official clarification.