My friends and I are still in the process of figuring these rules out and the question of ranged combat came up.
It is confusing to understand how the block system works vs someone firing an arrow at you and how fast you get to them.
I saw the chart on movement which shows x4 run with certain types of armor and weight (60 ft in 1 round) which helps, but I'm confused on how that works.
If my ranged weapon is a longbow that has a distance of 100 ft, at what point do you determine the person you are firing at gets to you to take an action once he gets within 100ft.
Also, what if he spots the archer at 120ft and takes off running and the archer then shoots once he gets within the 100ft range.
Sorry if this is explained in detail somewhere and I haven't found it.
Thanks,
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Remember that range rules are a bit confusing. The range listed at the weapon entry in the rulebook is not the maximum range, but the so-called range increment:
Range: Any attack at more than this distance is penalized for range. Beyond this range, the attack takes a cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment (or fraction thereof) of distance to the target. For example, a dagger (with a range of 10 feet) thrown at a target that is 25 feet away would incur a –4 penalty. A thrown weapon has a maximum range of five range increments. A projectile weapon can shoot to 10 range increments.
Remember that range rules are a bit confusing. The range listed at the weapon entry in the rulebook is not the maximum range, but the so-called range increment:
Range: Any attack at more than this distance is penalized for range. Beyond this range, the attack takes a cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment (or fraction thereof) of distance to the target. For example, a dagger (with a range of 10 feet) thrown at a target that is 25 feet away would incur a –4 penalty. A thrown weapon has a maximum range of five range increments. A projectile weapon can shoot to 10 range increments.
Yeah, my main concern is that we are getting the logistics of movement correct along with the attack.
I don't want to screw over the ranged guy, but then again I don't want to screw over the person that is getting ranged on with no way to retaliate until he gets in melee range.
Perhaps you should read up on the initiative section for how and when people move arround. The ranged attack hits as soon as it is made, there is no lag or anything like that.
Pathfinder is a turn-based system. As such, you handle the movement separately from the ranged attack. So, for example, let's assume combat starts with a human 200' from an orc.
On round 1, the human chooses to Run (Full-Round Action), moving 120' on his turn. The orc fires an arrow (Standard Action) at the human and moves 30' back (Move Action). That is the end of round 1.
On round 2, the human again chooses to Run (Full-Round Action), moving 110' to be within melee range of the orc. The Orc takes a 5' step (No Action, used to avoid an AoO) and again fires an arrow (Standard Action).
On round 3, the human takes a 5' step (No Action) and attacks the orc with a sword (Standard Action). The orc drops his bow (Free Action), draws his weapon (Move Action), and attacks (Standard Action).
In a case of long-distance encounters (daylight, no cover, etc.), to determine how far away the enemies start, take a look at the Perception rules and note the distance modifiers. What I've been doing is have everyone roll perception, then begin the encounter at whatever distance represents the furthest that someone from one side would have spotted someone from the other side.
Example: John the Ranger rolls a 22, so he sees the enemies when they are approximately 220 feet away. I begin the encounter at that range.
As was already pointed out, simply use the initiative counts as normal, each person getting their action at the appropriate point in initiative. If one person wants to spend their action running (covering x4 base movement and losing their Dex to AC), they can move that much closer during their turn. Someone else can fire a ranged weapon as a standard action and still move their base speed as a move action.
Remember that it's possible to use ranged weapons at a penalty even from several range increments away.
Pathfinder is a turn-based system. As such, you handle the movement separately from the ranged attack. So, for example, let's assume combat starts with a human 200' from an orc.
On round 1, the human chooses to Run (Full-Round Action), moving 120' on his turn. The orc fires an arrow (Standard Action) at the human and moves 30' back (Move Action). That is the end of round 1.
On round 2, the human again chooses to Run (Full-Round Action), moving 110' to be within melee range of the orc. The Orc takes a 5' step (No Action, used to avoid an AoO) and again fires an arrow (Standard Action).
On round 3, the human takes a 5' step (No Action) and attacks the orc with a sword (Standard Action). The orc drops his bow (Free Action), draws his weapon (Move Action), and attacks (Standard Action).
This is the question I was trying to figure out.
If your distance of run in a round is 120 and you are 90 away, you will obviously get to the person in a faster time than the round is technically over, but do you get an attack, or is the move used up so you can not attack. Substituting other numbers in the equation of X' away and what is the result. 50', 70', 110'.
Will the result always be: no matter the distance, short or long, you will not get an attack that round?
And on the flip side, if you get initiative and reach that person (melee range) in your turn, does that range character on his turn still get to fire? I see you say the orc can take a 5' step back and then take a turn, but I didn't know you could take a move action and then take an action as well.
This is why I posted "noob"
If your distance of run in a round is 120 and you are 90 away, you will obviously get to the person in a faster time than the round is technically over, but do you get an attack, or is the move used up so you can not attack. Substituting other numbers in the equation of X' away and what is the result. 50', 70', 110'.
No, if you chose to run/sprint that is all you can do in a round.
And on the flip side, if you get initiative and reach that person (melee range) in your turn, does that range character on his turn still get to fire? I see you say the orc can take a 5' step back and then take a turn, but I didn't know you could take a move action and then take an action as well.
You can get more than one action on a turn but they are limited depending on the action, in general you get one move and one standard action each round. The move here however is limited to just your base move (for example, in most cases 30').
If your distance of run in a round is 120 and you are 90 away, you will obviously get to the person in a faster time than the round is technically over, but do you get an attack, or is the move used up so you can not attack. Substituting other numbers in the equation of X' away and what is the result. 50', 70', 110'.No, if you chose to run/sprint that is all you can do in a round.
And on the flip side, if you get initiative and reach that person (melee range) in your turn, does that range character on his turn still get to fire? I see you say the orc can take a 5' step back and then take a turn, but I didn't know you could take a move action and then take an action as well.You can get more than one action on a turn but they are limited depending on the action, in general you get one move and one standard action each round. The move here however is limited to just your base move (for example, in most cases 30').
So you can move 20' (move action, considering you have a 30' standard) and attack (standard action) each round?
Basically give you headway to use a bow?
Characters get 1 Swift (or Immediate) Action, 1 Standard Action, and 1 Move Action per turn, as well as Free Actions and the few No Action options. A character can use a Standard Action to take another Move Action (a Double Move) instead, or may use both a Standard and a Move Action to take a Full-Round Action. Look at the Table: Actions in Combat here to see what all these things can cover. Running is a Full-Round Action, so if you Run, that's pretty much all you can do that round (barring Swift/Immediate/Free actions). So, if you have to Run to reach the target, you cannot attack that round. If you are within range of a Double Move, you may be able to Charge the opponent, i.e. move that distance and make a single attack. If you are in range for a Move (e.g. 30' for a human in Light or no armor), you can move that amount and attack (which is a Standard Action). If you move no more than 5' in a round (a 5-Foot Step), you may be able to take a Full-Round Action (such as attacking with two weapons using Two Weapon Fighting).
In any case, the ranged fighter can choose to still fire, but if within melee range he provokes a free attack (an Attack of Opportunity) for doing so. Generally such a character can take a 5-Foot Step back and fire (getting just out of range), or else can switch to a melee attack.
You'll want to read and re-read that Combat section a few times, playing through a few mock scenarios, to get the hang of all this.
Movement and attack:
If it helps, think of movement as "packages" you "buy"
If you have no other movement in a round (i.e. use a full attack action, or use your move actions for stuff like stand up from prone and reload your crossbow), you get the free "5-foot-step" package.
You can also get the "single movement" package, which costs a move action (meaning you cannot do any full-round actions that round, only standard actions, like a single attack). Your average human in light armour can move up to 30 ft. with that package.
If that's not enough, you can get the "double move" package, which is two move actions one after the other. It costs a full round action which means you cannot attack at all, and neither can you do other stuff that requires a standard action (you can trade in one or both of your move actions for actions other than actual movement that cost move actions, like reloading a light crossbow) Your average human in light armour can move up to 60 ft. with that package.
There's also the "run" package, which also costs a full-round action, but also has certain restrictions (i.e. you must move in a straight line, and must be able to run freely). It lets you move four times your base speed (or three times in heavy armour), meaning that the average human in light armour can move 120 with this package. There is no "half-run", as it is a very special case).
These packages are like those packs of Chicken Nuggets at MC Donald's: There's only those packages ("5-foot-step", "single movement", "double move" and "run"). If you need more than a smaller package but not everything from the bigger package, you're out of luck: You must get the larger package and "pay full price". 10 feet? Too much for the "5-foot-step" package. 32 feet (or, if you use the grid, 35 feet, since you use your movement in 5-foot increments then)? Too much for "single", you need to spring for a "double".
Just like you can't just get 15 nuggets instead of 20 and save just enough to get a small cola with the money you have, you can't only use "half a move action" to get a "partial attack action" or something like that.
Watch out for "special offers" like "charge", where you get a double move plus an attack at +2 under special conditions (movement must be in a straight line, no difficult terrain, you take -2 to AC until the start of your next turn).
to just your base move (for example, in most cases 30').
So you can move 20' (move action, considering you have a 30' standard) and attack (standard action) each round?
Basically give you headway to use a bow?You can do that, but it won't keep you out of trouble, as enemies can just charge you, and when you move away from them once they're next to you, they get an attack of opportunity (basically a free attack) against you for moving around.
You're better off with making a 5ft step to get out of range (and hope the enemy doesn't have the Step Up feat or he can move with you) and then use all your attacks. Or maybe getting behind your friends holding the line. Or get majicked up and do stuff like flying away (you'll probably need magical assistance for that, unless you're a spellcasting archer with sufficient magical firepower).
Nice, you guys have broken it down nice now.
Thanks for the replies!!