Revising Core Feats: The Skill Feats

[Mok]

I've finally decided to go in and houserule the heck out of Pathfinder to get the game to fit what I want out of it. One thing I'm not satisfied with are a lot of the core feats. So I'm going through to see what can be done to make every feat an exciting and tantalizing choice to made and feel like a real power upgrade for the character. Every time a feat is written down on that character sheet it should feel like the moment when an Immortal in Highlander cuts another Immortal's head off.

I'm looking at Skill feats now and after slogging through a lot of ideas what I think I'm settling on with the dual skill feats, such as Acrobatic, Athletic, Deft Hands, etc. is just a simple tweak. In every case (except one) what would be added to these feats is that the character can take 10 even when stressed or distracted with the two skills tied to that feat.

The one exception is with the Magical Aptitude feat. While the take 10 for spellcraft would stand, it doesn't work with Use Magic Device. Use Magic Device is a feat unlike others, which with the ability to take 10 could easily lead to a vast number of abuses as a character would be able to eventually emulate any magic spell.

So the issue I'm debating now is whether there is anything else to give for UMD, some tweak or exception to the rules, or just leave it at the +2. In my gut it's unsatisfying to just leave it at +2, but so far I haven't found any lateral expansion of power that would work.

Now, I should just back up a bit here and just explain why I'm making these changes. They way they are currently written, which is the same as when they were in 3.0, is simply that the bonus just isn't enough to be worth a feat slot. Every feat should be tempting my fighter away from taking Power Attack and instead taking this other shiny feat... we'll, maybe not every feat, but all the ones that could be relevant in some manner to the character.

The taking 10 feature that I settled on feels right because it allows the character to have a baseline effortless competence to certain skills. By taking the feat, you aren't just skilled in these areas, you're a natural and you'll effortlessly be able to pull off the low hanging DCs of whatever skill check you have to do. You'll also have a clear metric to go on as you gain levels, to the point that by mid levels you ought to be able to effortlessly do some of the more challenging DCs. That certainty is worth the feat.

So, a fighter, who normally is going to focus on combat feats exclusively, might see the Acrobatic, Athletic or Animal Affinity as worth it because they'll be able to know that they can effortlessly pull off various stunts and not worry that they may roll a 1.

Thematically I also like this because it shifts the system a bit more towards cinematic play. I'm no fan of the old Gygaxian style of play where PCs are a dime a dozen, and the universe is an unsympathetic and cold place that cares little for the PCs fates. I'm interested in heroic play where the PCs are meant to be awesome. Just like in movies you don't see heroes stumble about botching their actions at random moments, the taking 10 allows PCs to choose to just always be good at select actions.

The extra bonus side effect is that there is less dice rolling going on in the game, less hesitancy of players to act because they might screw up, which means more fluid action.

Ah... I almost forgot about Skill Focus. This is another feat that just doesn't do it for me.

Here the problem is that I was spoiled by Star Wars Saga, where Skill focus gave you a +5. Now THAT is worth a feat. A nice solid bonus that just says, "Hey... you're awesome!" which is what a feat ought to do.

I'd just toss it up like that, but the problem is that the math with SW:Saga and PF is different, and so it doesn't quite work. With Pathfinder you can do right now:

Rank: +1
Class Skill: +3
Skill Feat: +2
Skill Focus: +3

Which totals to +9, not counting the stat bonus. So with even a roll of a 1 you've already got a 10. Which is the same amount that Saga's two feats would give you in their system.

So people might say... "well, then +3 is fine." But I still can't swallow it. I just feel insulted at getting a measly +3 for a feat. Instead of feeling like I just ate can of spinach, I feel like I ate a McDonalds meal.

A few ideas:

Have a 1/day reroll in the selected skill... in addition to the +3 bonus.

OR

Get a re-roll whenever you use the skill.

I'm partial to the second one, as it is equivalent to a +3 to +5 bonus depending on circumstances.

How the re-roll would mesh with Skill Feats that gave a take 10 would be that the player could first say they are taking 10 and give their total, but if they fail then they could then just do the re-roll.

What do y'all think?

[Name Violation]

honestly i think its unnecessary. also dont forget once you have 10 ranks in a skill with skill focus you get another +3

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Somehow the name "Skill Focus" sounds more like it would grant the take 10.

[Remco Sommeling]

Name Violation wrote:

honestly i think its unnecessary. also dont forget once you have 10 ranks in a skill with skill focus you get another +3

Wasn't that just in beta, I haven't seen a reference to it in the final book.. if so I will not miss it, never liked that rule.

[Name Violation]

Remco Sommeling wrote:

Name Violation wrote:

honestly i think its unnecessary. also dont forget once you have 10 ranks in a skill with skill focus you get another +3

Wasn't that just in beta, I haven't seen a reference to it in the final book.. if so I will not miss it, never liked that rule.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/skill-focus---final

also, it makes skill focus worth taking now. the +3 was ok, but +6 is alot better

[Mok]

Name Violation wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/skill-focus---final
also, it makes skill focus worth taking now. the +3 was ok, but +6 is alot better

Yeah, but awesomeness ought to be conferred at level 1, waiting till level 10 just won't do.

I've been rolling it in my head some more, and another way to approach it is to have skill focus allow for rolling two d20s and picking the higher roll. The benefit there is it helps speed up play, rather than having to let the player dwell on a failed roll and then finally pick it up and roll again.

The only problem is that it doesn't synergize with take 10 for the skill feats. So I'm still rolling around with it to figure out a better way to have a bit of lateral power, but also let things stack a bit when you take both feats.

[VikingIrishman]

My standard "fix" for the skill feats is to include "These skills are always considered class skills for you." This has lead to more than a few Fighters, Barbarians, and others actually picking up feats they never would have otherwise.

Also, I like the ability to take 10 on the related skill checks, even UMD. Honestly, UMD isn't that difficult to use anyway. Let's take your previous example into play here and assume an 18 Cha.

Rank: +1
Class Skill: +3
Skill Feat: +2
Skill Focus: +3
Ability Mod: +4

Total: +13

A +13 modifier at level 1 means that you'll activate a wand 65% of the time anyway. Also take into consideration that most people don't specialize skills that far anyway unless their combat performance REALLY depends on the skill. If we were to take an "average" rogue. It would look something more like this.

Rank: +1
Class Skill: +3
Skill Feat: +2
Ability Mod: +2

Total: +8

That's a 40% chance to activate a wand, and a failure to do so if you take 10.

[james knowles]

My Fix:

skill feats: grant +2 to both skills and they're now class skills, in addition for every 6 ranks in either skill the bonus increases by +2.

skill focus: grants +3 to one skill, and allows you to take 10 even if distracted, in addition for every 6 ranks in that skill the bonus increases by +3.

IMO, this puts them on par with the combat feats, thus increasing the liklyhood of players actually choosing one of them occasionally.