
Grendel Todd RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |

No plan survives impact with player characters, goes the old saying. So when one of my two parties returned from a particularly unproductive exploration (had a run in with 6 Trolls and had to run away), after several months of just struggling to keep their Barony afloat, and found themselves having to defend themselves from Gregori's accusations, they hit on a novel solution the Event: Rabble-rouser doesn't seem to plan for.
They gave him the crown, saying "if you think you can do better, you're welcome to do so."
Now, I'm already getting evil ideas on how to play this out: the new Baron sending them on various quests to get them killed, or at least out of the way for prolonged periods of time - I've been itching for an excuse to work in Carrion Hill for instance - while in turn he can start a war with the neighboring rival PC kingdom, but I thought I'd toss this out and see what other thoughts folks might have to this particular curve ball.
For one thing, the PC Baron was a Paladin. Does this count as a breach of Alignment? Certainly it isn't an evil act, but it could be considered a serious breach of oaths taken as leader to protect the colonists and be a part of the feudal system (which is all about oaths of fealty and such), never mind the fact that he did this pretty much on impulse, without consulting the rest of his court. The one not particularly lawful or good PC in the party did attempt to start a fight with Gregori, and the Paladin planted himself between the two, vowing to defend his decision (and his new Baron). On the flip side, he & the party then promptly plotted to lead a revolution to overthrow him if he proves a bad ruler.
So, have ideas, but could always use more.
Thoughts? Ideas?

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There are two options, one is to really outshine them, but that doesn't seem mean enough. The other is a lot more fun.
So, generating Unrest and squandering BP seem to be the order of the day.
Make sure to claim hexes and not build farms.
Build tenements and brothels.
Build temples to evil gods.
Right before he leaves, knock the treasury down to 0 by withdrawing all of its funds.
Leave them with a ton of Unrest and very few resources. Most of the stuff above can be salvaged and be made useful, but it will put them in a short term crunch.

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There are two options, one is to really outshine them, but that doesn't seem mean enough. The other is a lot more fun.
So, generating Unrest and squandering BP seem to be the order of the day.
Make sure to claim hexes and not build farms.
Build tenements and brothels.
Build temples to evil gods.
Right before he leaves, knock the treasury down to 0 by withdrawing all of its funds.
Leave them with a ton of Unrest and very few resources. Most of the stuff above can be salvaged and be made useful, but it will put them in a short term crunch.
I would have him do this for a few months, and also fire all of the heads of state, purposefully leaving a number of positions empty, while filling the others with incompetents. Then he abandons the kingdom. His job, remember,
Walking away with the national treasury, leaving the barony in a shambles with rampant crime and unrest, and the remaining leadership utterly incapable of proper rule? Mission: accomplished with style.
Then have him turn up in War of the River Kings living a lavish lifestyle in the neighbouring kingdom, laughing at how he robbed the hell out of those idiots in the Barony.
Regardless of what you do, there's a deeper issue at hand as well. The PC's abandoned their claim to the barony, and handed it over to this guy without putting up a fight at all. They've made themselves look weak, shortsighted and foolish. Even if they lead the rebellion to liberate the people - they're the ones who put them into the predicament in the first place. Their citizens will probably not forgive or forget anytime soon.
As for the paladin - who's his deity? A number of LG deities would probably drop him on the spot for knowingly abandoning his responsibilities to the innocent, especially if those innocents suffer from his actions. A LN deity might be less forgiving - he's invited chaos into the realm by abandoning his lawful place as ruler.
A good game, in my opinion, is all about coming up with the consequences of what the PC's do - good and bad. In this case, it was absolutely a bad idea for your players to do this. And I'd make them pay for it - it's on their heads.
That said - I'm sure they'll have plenty of opportunity to win back the people's trust and adoration once things start getting hairy in KM3 and KM4. ;)

HNB |

Why should Gregori leave? He did what he was supposed to do. So instead of doing all the fun things you guys wrote, let him invite Pitax to send troops "to protect the nation and its people", thus establishing a military regime.
Of course, you would have to pause the kingmaker campaign for a while and run a resistance group-like game. But this could be fun as well.

Grendel Todd RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |

It was a Paladin of Erastil who was basically strong-armed by the rest of the group into running things (he in retrospect would have rather not, but didn't bother to say so at the time, and no one else was willing to let anyone else lead).
Now, this being one of TWO PC kingdoms being built in the Greenbelt, Gregori has effectively two nations to make trouble for. My original plan was for him to show up and cause trouble for one, then - presuming he lived &/or wasn't imprisoned, go harass the next one, but the first group never let it get that far, instead sticking him with kingdom & crown. I hadn't thought of him getting support from his patron(s). The idea of using them for extra build-points and turning this nascent state of dedicated Erastil-ites into a fanatical nation wanting nothing more than to tear down their neighboring PC state (who built their own government around being a constitutional counsel of witch-lords) should work out just as nicely.
Also helps with the second group being none to pleased for letting Gregori get into power.

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Wow. The only useful thing I can say is that kingdoms are very easy to kill. All you have to do is get to 20 Unrest, and you have an easy way to do that - withdraw 19 or more BP. The more you try to withdraw, the easier it is to fail the check and kill the kingdom.
Really, though, I just stopped by to stare in awe. This is the kind of thing that (evil) GMs dream about, having the PCs drop this kind of thing into your lap.
It's like you gave them a conniving backstabbing hireling to add some roleplay opportunities, and they respond by having him stand watch while they lie sleeping and easily killable.
Sometimes it's good to be the GM.

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It was a Paladin of Erastil who was basically strong-armed by the rest of the group into running things (he in retrospect would have rather not, but didn't bother to say so at the time, and no one else was willing to let anyone else lead).
Now, this being one of TWO PC kingdoms being built in the Greenbelt, Gregori has effectively two nations to make trouble for. My original plan was for him to show up and cause trouble for one, then - presuming he lived &/or wasn't imprisoned, go harass the next one, but the first group never let it get that far, instead sticking him with kingdom & crown. I hadn't thought of him getting support from his patron(s). The idea of using them for extra build-points and turning this nascent state of dedicated Erastil-ites into a fanatical nation wanting nothing more than to tear down their neighboring PC state (who built their own government around being a constitutional counsel of witch-lords) should work out just as nicely.
Also helps with the second group being none to pleased for letting Gregori get into power.
Aha! I didn't realize there were two PC nations. He should definitely gear up the first nation and then have it throw itself into a hopeless war with the neighbouring state. Leave both of them in as much of a shambles as possible.
Hmmm. As much as he's a nature god, Erastil is also the lawful good god of family and community. Sure your paladin didn't want to be the baron - and it sounds like he may have used this as an excuse to foist an unwanted title on someone else - but he still shirked his responsibility, and put his community in danger. I really think he should be punished for it - maybe not full on loss of paladinhood, but an atonement spell or a holy quest might be in order. Hell, Erastil might just tell him "you cocked up, now go back and fix what you broke." He's the kind of god who'd lay it out pretty simply.

ikki |

fascinating :p
On one hand, he might do his job as ordered... otoh, theres a kingdom that is his now. He obviously isnt easily bullied, so pitax should have it no easier to say "send in some assisting troops".
And with that alignment, not very likely to follow orders from some other people, very much a self made man. Made king? Well, fine.. i think he would do his best to excell in it.

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fascinating :p
On one hand, he might do his job as ordered... otoh, theres a kingdom that is his now. He obviously isnt easily bullied, so pitax should have it no easier to say "send in some assisting troops".
And with that alignment, not very likely to follow orders from some other people, very much a self made man. Made king? Well, fine.. i think he would do his best to excell in it.
Admittedly, the idea of him actually being a fantastic monarch is very funny. Keeps the players around to act as heroes in a pinch, maybe allows them to fill up a few lesser kingdom roles.
Might erk the crap out of your players though, especially if they really were banking on him being a villain. ;)

Kyle Schmaing |

Grendel Todd wrote:
"No plan survives impact with player characters, goes the old saying. So when one of my two parties returned from a particularly unproductive exploration (had a run in with 6 Trolls and had to run away), after several months of just struggling to keep their Barony afloat, and found themselves having to defend themselves from Gregori's accusations, they hit on a novel solution the Event: Rabble-rouser doesn't seem to plan for.
They gave him the crown, saying "if you think you can do better, you're welcome to do so."
Now, I'm already getting evil ideas on how to play this out: the new Baron sending them on various quests to get them killed, or at least out of the way for prolonged periods of time - I've been itching for an excuse to work in Carrion Hill for instance - while in turn he can start a war with the neighboring rival PC kingdom, but I thought I'd toss this out and see what other thoughts folks might have to this particular curve ball.
For one thing, the PC Baron was a Paladin. Does this count as a breach of Alignment? Certainly it isn't an evil act, but it could be considered a serious breach of oaths taken as leader to protect the colonists and be a part of the feudal system (which is all about oaths of fealty and such), never mind the fact that he did this pretty much on impulse, without consulting the rest of his court. The one not particularly lawful or good PC in the party did attempt to start a fight with Gregori, and the Paladin planted himself between the two, vowing to defend his decision (and his new Baron). On the flip side, he & the party then promptly plotted to lead a revolution to overthrow him if he proves a bad ruler."
This sounds like an Evil DM's dream... however I must ask what type of game do you want to run?
It sounds like your players have been having a rough time as it is with the Kingmaker path and it sounds like the Paladin threw up his hands and said $*&^ it! lolz
The question remains though do you want to run Kingmaker? or Are you and your players just there to have a good time? If your players and yourself want to continue the Kingmaker storyline then I wouldn't let Gregori get too comfortable. As it stands they are no longer in charge and thus many of the future events will have no affect on them.
If on the other hand your game is all about the fun and you want to make the players have an even more difficult time then I would let Gregori just hand the new kingdom to Pitax and he gains a noble title and Pitax has more land... now the PCs are freedom fighters... or merely adventurers in a corrupt government... Maybe Brevoy sees this and sends troops...

Grendel Todd RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |

The decision to give up on the Kingdom, as illustrated, was not unanimous. About half the group decided to stay on and assist, as well as the new character who had shown up, just that session, hoping for a post in the government. One PC was so disillusioned with the Paladin he just left the group entirely, deciding to try his luck with the other PC Barony.
What I have had Gregori do so far is to replace the drop-out PCs with locals such as Oleg & his wife, and straggler PCs not loyal to the Paladin, thus keeping some PC influence over the domain while he in turn adds his particular "flavor" (amongst his first acts: hike taxes to Overwhelming, drop Festivals and Promotions to None, build a Brothel in Olegrad and a Monument to himself in the capital). Given that the characters that stayed on have been seriously lagging behind in levels (either because they were new, or back-up characters), this allows me to have them build up on Kingdom-building and Exploration xp (better use the KM1 wandering monster chart for a bit tho), while the more experienced, primary PCs adventure for 3-5 months (1-2 months to get to Ustelav, play through Carrion Hill, and another 1-2 months to get back).
The tricky thing about Gregori &
As far as the Paladin's party is concerned, I really like the idea of his falling from a Chaotic act, as opposed to an evil one (which is far easier, and more traditional, to judge). Just nocking him down to NG (because it isn't his goodness that is in doubt), taking his divine powers (which is harsh the higher level you happen to be), and have the party dogged periodically with visions of the Grim White Stag showing up, and turning away from him, should definitely get the point across that he screwed up, but still has a chance at redemption. Getting access to the Atonement spell may take a while (the Party has a Priest of the faith who will eventually be able to cast it), so if I time it right, I can tie it in to dragging them off east for the Varnhold Vanishing. If they haven't gotten around to retaking their old Barony by then, they may be able to re-establish themselves with Varnhold, if they wish, and doing so works perfectly as both an atoning quest and tying them back firmly into the plot.
The other thing to keep in mind with the possibility of conflict between the two PC Baronies is that I actually have been planning for that for a while. The inherent rivalry between the two has been there from the get go, and at least one or two players on each side has been making contingencies for an eventual conflict between the two since they founded their colonies. This just speeds up their clocks a bit, and means they'll be taking off the kid-gloves when they do:)

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As far as the Paladin's party is concerned, I really like the idea of his falling from a Chaotic act, as opposed to an evil one (which is far easier, and more traditional, to judge). Just nocking him down to NG (because it isn't his goodness that is in doubt), taking his divine powers (which is harsh the higher level you happen to be), and have the party dogged periodically with visions of the Grim White Stag showing up, and turning away from him, should definitely get the point across that he screwed up, but still has a chance at redemption. Getting access to the Atonement spell may take a while (the Party has a Priest of the faith who will eventually be able to cast it), so if I time it right, I can tie it in to dragging them off east for the Varnhold Vanishing. If they haven't gotten around to retaking their old Barony by then, they may be able to re-establish themselves with Varnhold, if they wish, and doing so works perfectly as both an atoning quest and tying them back firmly into the plot.
Ooh! And this gives the PC's two established baronies, plus a third one run by an NPC to contend with in the new territory. Makes for a good "unifying the land/there can be only one" plot.
Plus, when a certain River Kingdom nation decides to get involved directly, you could even have the NPC nation get bumped off first as a demonstration of the seriousness of the situation.