I don't know this seems more like a base class idea to meThat's all we are considering at this point I'm pretty sure (there are many canines posting haha)
Is there a full moon tonight?????
Oops I meant to say prestige class. I misspoke
there are many canines posting haha
Who let the dogs out? *slaps himself*
Oops I meant to say prestige class. I misspoke
OOOH ok, in that case I disagree hehehe. Especially if we are using the "never willing target of spell" code, with that stipulation I think you need to add other things such as fast healing, it just doesn't seem like it would mesh well with multiclassing since almost all of the classes can cast spells. They would probably have to dampen the abilities to avoid exploiting, besides we need levels to add in the abilities we like! : )
That's all we are considering at this point I'm pretty sure (there are many canines posting haha)
Just to point out, pound for pound, a cat will eat any dogs lunch without breaking a sweat. ;)
Just to point out, pound for pound, a cat will eat any dogs lunch without breaking a sweat. ;)
That's all we are considering at this point I'm pretty sure (there are many canines posting haha)
and then the dog eats the cat for lunch : )
and then the dog eats the cat for lunch : )
and then the cat rips out of the dogs stomach in a very alien-esque way :P
and then the dog eats the cat for lunch : )and then the cat rips out of the dogs stomach in a very alien-esque way :P
after having been subjected to a dogs stomach acid I agree if it ripped out it would look very alien like :P BUT back to the topic because I like this project and hope to avoid derailment!
Yes, as soon as dog stomaches enter a discussion I think that's a hint that it is time to try and get back on the topic, haha.
Anyway, I would think that the inquisitor class would follow the witch hunter theme very well, especially since he can detect alignment (and magic, if he takes the level 0 spell) at will, can detect lies at level 5, and gets an evasion like ability for will and fortitude saves. If you want him to be more antimagic themed, then replace his teamwork feats with bonus feats. Put Disruptive and Spellbreaker on the feat list, and spellcasters will certainly fear him, muahaha.
OK, just to get back on track, I'm using my old spellhunter class as a basic framework for the class. I changed the name from spellhunter to exorcist to follow the Pathfinder tradition of using single word, non-compound words, for their class names.
One change I did was remove the bonus feats, and replaced it with Talents granted every even level. Now we need to design some Exorcist Talent Trees. I'm sure some of the class features already listed can be incorporated into Talent Trees, streamlining the class.
Exorcists are canny combatants that specialize in hunting down and disrupting magic-users of all kinds.
Exorcist
BAB: +1
Good Saves: Will
Hit Dice: 1d10
Class Skills: Craft, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge arcana, Linguistics, Perception, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Survival.
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Exorcists are proficient in all Simple and Martial Weapons. They are proficient in Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor, and all Shields (except Tower Shields).
The Save DC, if any, of any Exorcist special ability is 10 + 1/2 his Exorcist level + his Intelligence modifier.
LEVEL ABILITY
1. Detect Magic, Dispelling Strike (1/day), Disrupt Spellcaster, Trapfinding
2. Talent, Spellgrace
3. Dispelling Strike (2/day), Mettle
4. Dispelling Rejuvenation, Talent
5. Arcane Sight
6. Dispelling Strike (3/day), Talent
7. Improved Dispelling Strike (Disrupt Magic)
8. Spell Resistance (5 + class level), Talent, Improved Talents
9. Dispelling Strike (4/day)
10. Slippery Mind, Talent
11. Analyze Dweomer
12. Dispelling Strike (5/day), Talent
13. Greater Dispelling Strike (Greater Dispel Magic),
14. Improved Spell Resistance (10 + class level), Talent, Greater Talents
15. Dispelling Strike (6/day)
16. Mind Blank, Talent
17. Greater Arcane Sight
18. Dispelling Strike (7/day), Talent
19. Dire Dispelling Strike (Disjoining)
20. Greater Spell Resistance (15 + class level), Persistent Disruption, Ultimate Talent
Detect Magic (sp). The exorcist can use detect magic at will.
Dispelling Strike (Su). Once per day as a free action, the exorcist can declare a Dispelling Strike. For 1 round, if the exorcist hits with an attack, the opponent is targetted with a Dispel Magic effect with a Caster Level equal to the exorcist’s Base Attack Bonus. In addition, the target of the Dispel Magic takes 1 point of damage per spell level successfully dispelled. At 3rd level, and every 3 levels thereafter, the exorcist gains an additional daily use of this ability. In addition, the exorcist can use Dispelling Strike as an immediate action if he scores a successful critical hit; this does not use up one of his daily uses of Dispelling Strike.
Disrupt Spellcaster (Ex). The exorcist increases the Concentration check DC to cast defensively of any spellcaster he threatens by an amount equal to his class level.
Bonus Feat. At levels 2, 6, 10, 14, and 18, the exorcist can choose one of the following as a bonus feat: Blindfight, Combat Reflexes, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Skill Focus, or Step Up. Beginning at 6th level, the exorcist adds Improved Great Fortitude, Improved Iron Will, and Improved Lightning Reflexes to the list. At 10th level, he adds Critical Focus, Improved Critical, and Spellbreaker to the list.
Spellgrace (Su). Beginning at 2nd level, the exorcist adds his Charisma bonus (if any) to all Saving Throws against Spells, Spell-like Abilities, and Supernatural Abilities.
Mettle (Ex). At 3rd level, if the exorcist succeeds on a Fortitude or Will Saving Throw that still has a negative effect, he ignores the negative effect.
Dispelling Rejuvination (Su). At 4th level, Whenever a exorcist causes damage with his Dispelling Strike, he heals a like amount of damage. Any excess hit points are treated as temporary hit points that last for 1 hour per class level.
Arcane Sight (Sp). At 5th level, the exorcist can use Arcane Sight at will.
Improved Dispelling Strike (Su). At 7th level, the exorcist’s Dispelling Strike improves. It now causes 2 points of damage per spell level dispelled. Alternatively, the exorcist can use 1 daily use of his Dispelling Strike to make a Disrupting Strike. The exorcist must declare the Disrupting Strike before making the attack roll; if successful, the target cannot use any spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability for 1 round. In addition, the exorcist can use Disrupting Strike as an immediate action if he scores a successful critical hit; this does not use up one of his daily uses of Disrupting Strike.
Spell Resistance (Ex). Beginning at 8th level, the exorcist gains Spell Resistance equal to 5 + his class level. At 14th level, this improves to 10 + his class level. At 20th level, he gains Spell Resistance equal to 15 + his class level.
Slippery Mind (Ex). At 10th level, the exorcist gains the Slippery Mind ability as described under the Rogue's Advanced Talents.
Analyze Dweomer (Sp). At 11th level, the exorcist can use Analyze Dweomer at will.
Greater Dispelling Strike (Su). At 13th level, the exorcist’s Dispelling Strike improves. It now causes 3 points of damage per spell level dispelled, and acts as a Greater Dispel Magic. The exorcist can use 1 daily use of his Dispelling Strike to cast Greater Dispel Magic, with a Caster Level equal to his Base Attack Bonus.
Mind Blank (Su). At 16th level, the exorcist is protected with a constant Mind Blank effect.
Greater Arcane Sight (Sp). At 17th level, the exorcist can use Greater Arcane Sight at will.
Dire Dispelling Strike (Su). At 19th level, the exorcist's Dispelling Strike improves. It now causes 4 points of damage per spell level dispelled. Alternatively, the exorcist can use 1 daily use of his Dispelling Strike to make a Disjoining Strike. The exorcist must declare the Disjoining Strike before making the attack roll; if successful, the target is subjected to a Mage's Disjoinment effect with a Caster Level equal to the exorcist's Base Attack Bonus. In addition, the exorcist can use Disjoining Strike as an immediate action if he scores a successful critical hit; this does not use up one of his daily uses of Disjoining Strike.
Persistent Disruption (Su). At 20th level, the duration of the exorcist’s Disrupting Strike is a number of rounds equal to his Intelligence bonus (minimum 1 round).
OK, just to get back on track, I'm using my old spellhunter class as a basic framework for the class. I changed the name from spellhunter to exorcist to follow the Pathfinder tradition of using single word, non-compound words, for their class names.
One change I did was remove the bonus feats, and replaced it with Talents granted every even level. Now we need to design some Exorcist Talent Trees. I'm sure some of the class features already listed can be incorporated into Talent Trees, streamlining the class.
Exorcists are canny combatants that specialize in hunting down and disrupting magic-users of all kinds.
Not to nit pick but I'd add in more fluff about them hunting down devils/demons if you're going to call them Exorcists and then possibly call them eccentric because they believe anyone that uses magic has dark ties or some such. Other than that I like the class for the most part. For talents I'd add in 1 that lets them reflect spells back at the caster, similar to the Occult Slayer's ability. I might also change Disrupting and Disjoining Strike to only on criticals or possibly increase the amount of uses they use.
i am pretty comfortable with the spell resistance, it doesn't bother me too much that helpful spells wouldn't work on him.I'd even go so far as to suggest some kind of paladin style code of never willingly be the target of a spell, or loss of abilities, then it wouldn't be that big of a deal for SR and fast heal, energy resistance against spells, etc.
I also suggest a spell thief style ability to steal some spells and add status affects (not using the spells after they just dissipate) BUT those are just ideas I had hehehe I'm with you though it seems like a cool/needed idea.
On that note, why not just play the Inquisitor class and take the Superstition rage power as a feat or something. Say they flat out always have to resist magic if able, unless cast divinely by a member of their church.
Not to nit pick but I'd add in more fluff about them hunting down devils/demons if you're going to call them Exorcists and then possibly call them eccentric because they believe anyone that uses magic has dark ties or some such. Other than that I like the class for the most part. For talents I'd add in 1 that lets them reflect spells back at the caster, similar to the Occult Slayer's ability. I might also change Disrupting and Disjoining Strike to only on criticals or possibly increase the amount of uses they use.OK, just to get back on track, I'm using my old spellhunter class as a basic framework for the class. I changed the name from spellhunter to exorcist to follow the Pathfinder tradition of using single word, non-compound words, for their class names.
One change I did was remove the bonus feats, and replaced it with Talents granted every even level. Now we need to design some Exorcist Talent Trees. I'm sure some of the class features already listed can be incorporated into Talent Trees, streamlining the class.
Exorcists are canny combatants that specialize in hunting down and disrupting magic-users of all kinds.
What about 1/2 Class level + Int modifier times per day? Maybe have it function like a Smite Evil, where the exorcist calls out a single magic using critter and just keeps Dispelling it every time he hits. The Disrupting Strike (gotten at 7th level) will be useful against those nasties with (un-dispelable) supernatural abilities.
How about these for Talents?
Demon Hunter. You add +2 to your attack and damage rolls against chaotic evil outsiders. You also add that amount to your Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge, Perception, and Sense Motive skill checks against chaotic evil outsiders.
Devil Hunter. You add +2 to your attack and damage rolls against lawful evil outsiders. You also add that amount to your Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge, Perception, and Sense Motive skill checks against lawful evil outsiders.
Improved Demon Hunter. You add +2 to your attack and damage rolls against chaotic evil outsiders. You also add that amount to your Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge, Perception, and Sense Motive skill checks against chaotic evil outsiders. This stacks with the benefits of the Demon Hunter talent. In addition, you overcome DR/chaos and DR/evil when attacking chaotic evil outsiders.
Improved Devil Hunter. You add +2 to your attack and damage rolls against lawful evil outsiders. You also add that amount to your Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge, Perception, and Sense Motive skill checks against lawful evil outsiders. This stacks with the benefits of the Devil Hunter talent. In addition, you overcome DR/lawful and DR/evil when attacking lawful evil outsiders.
Greater Demon Hunter. You add +2 to your attack and damage rolls against chaotic evil outsiders. You also add that amount to your Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge, Perception, and Sense Motive skill checks against chaotic evil outsiders. This stacks with the benefits of the Demon Hunter talent and Improved Demon Hunter. You also add the bonuses from the Demon Hunter, Improved Demon Hunter, and Greater Demon Hunter talents to your Saving Throws against the attacks of chaotic evil outsiders.
Greater Devil Hunter. You add +2 to your attack and damage rolls against lawful evil outsiders. You also add that amount to your Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge, Perception, and Sense Motive skill checks against lawful evil outsiders. This stacks with the benefits of the Devil Hunter talent and Improved Devil Hunter talent. You also add the bonuses from the Devil Hunter, Improved Devil Hunter, and Greater DevilHunter talents to your Saving Throws against the attacks of lawful evil outsiders.
Ultimate Demon Hunter. You add +2 to your attack and damage rolls against chaotic evil outsiders. You also add that amount to your Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge, Perception, and Sense Motive skill checks against chaotic evil outsiders. This stacks with the benefits of the Demon Hunter, Improved Demon Hunter, and Greater Demon Hunter talents. You also add the bonuses from the Demon Hunter, Improved Demon Hunter, Greater Demon Hunter, and Ultimate Demon Hunter talents to your AC against the attacks of chaotic evil outsiders.
Ultimate Devil Hunter. You add +2 to your attack and damage rolls against lawful evil outsiders. You also add that amount to your Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge, Perception, and Sense Motive skill checks against lawful evil outsiders. This stacks with the benefits of the Devil Hunter, Improved Devil Hunter, and Greater Devil Hunter talents. You also add the bonuses from the Devil Hunter, Improved Devil Hunter, Greater Devil Hunter, and Ultimate Devil Hunter talents to your AC against the attacks of lawful evil outsiders.
because by making my own class i can control what the class gains, when they gain it and any new abilities i choose to add to it.
i wouldn't give it spells like the inquisitor, i wouldn't give them any of the teamwork feats and as much as i like the judgments they don't fit what i want the class to do.
Also, I'm not entirely happy with giving the class fluff that says they hate magic. There could be a variety of reasons to take an anti-magic class without being anti-magic against all magic. Maybe an evil wizard killed your father? Maybe you enjoy killing beasts with innate magical powers? Maybe you're part of a strike force that enforces the law in a highly magical culture.
But I think it is a cool piece of CHARACTER fluff to give them the "I hate all magic" background.
It might even be a cool OPTIONAL talent. Something like an 'always on' Superstition rage power.
But ideally, the class will be flexible and versatile enough to cover a wide range of witch hunter character concepts.
But ideally, the class will be flexible and versatile enough to cover a wide range of witch hunter character concepts.
One thing to consider with the current build you've made is that they can get a ton of "free" Dispelling, Disrupting and Disjoining Strikes by going for Rapiers, Kukris, Falchions and Elven Curve Blades. I'd want to use the class, but I think that making crits "free" is going to encourage these weapons to the exclusion of all else (Especially the free Disjoinings). With Dispelling Rejuvenation, there's enough incentive to activate a Dispelling Strike on a critical hit.
I'll also second the opinion that Disjoining should cost more than just 1 use of Dispelling Strike (it's a 9th level spell they can use 7 times a day, more with "free" crits).
But ideally, the class will be flexible and versatile enough to cover a wide range of witch hunter character concepts.One thing to consider with the current build you've made is that they can get a ton of "free" Dispelling, Disrupting and Disjoining Strikes by going for Rapiers, Kukris, Falchions and Elven Curve Blades. I'd want to use the class, but I think that making crits "free" is going to encourage these weapons to the exclusion of all else (Especially the free Disjoinings). With Dispelling Rejuvenation, there's enough incentive to activate a Dispelling Strike on a critical hit.
I'll also second the opinion that Disjoining should cost more than just 1 use of Dispelling Strike (it's a 9th level spell they can use 7 times a day, more with "free" crits).
But it's the only 9th level spell they get, so it's pretty specialized. But to be honest, I'm not a big fan of disjoining, if only because of all the paperwork involved.
I'm thinking of changing the Dispelling Strike to be more like a paladin's smite (pick an enemy and just keep dispelling at it!), so I would remove the free activation from criting.
Although, I kind of like the idea of the class having signature weapons. Maybe with magic turbans that protect them from mind-affecting effects? Maybe if it was a prestige class.
Instead of dispelling,
Make it the following :
Arcane Smite : The witch-hunter's innate abilities to defeat magic allow him to turn the very magic used by his opponents back on them. The hunter designates an opponent as the victim of his smite. Until that victim is defeated, or is no longer enspelled, the witch-hunter gains a bonus to all damage rolls against that target. These bonuses are the same as a Paladin using Smite Evil. The target must be under the effects of a durationed spell (such as Bull's Strength, or Mage Armor). If the target is not, or if the spells are removed from the target, the smite fails to work and it's usage is wasted. The witch hunter may use this ability <blah> times per day, and increases to <blah> at the levels of <blah>.
Basically, make it exactly like a paladin smite ability, but require the target to be under the effects of a magic spell that's durationed. You might want to make it a beneficial spell. :)
Instead of dispelling,
Make it the following :Arcane Smite : The witch-hunter's innate abilities to defeat magic allow him to turn the very magic used by his opponents back on them. The hunter designates an opponent as the victim of his smite. Until that victim is defeated, or is no longer enspelled, the witch-hunter gains a bonus to all damage rolls against that target. These bonuses are the same as a Paladin using Smite Evil. The target must be under the effects of a durationed spell (such as Bull's Strength, or Mage Armor). If the target is not, or if the spells are removed from the target, the smite fails to work and it's usage is wasted. The witch hunter may use this ability <blah> times per day, and increases to <blah> at the levels of <blah>.
Basically, make it exactly like a paladin smite ability, but require the target to be under the effects of a magic spell that's durationed. You might want to make it a beneficial spell. :)
Neat! Maybe the extra damage can be based on the highest level spell in effect? Plus 1 for each additional spell? And maybe higher level witch-hunters can multiply the damage by 2 or 3 or 4 at higher levels? This might be an anti-gish class or anti-CODzilla class!!!!
Neat! Maybe the extra damage can be based on the highest level spell in effect? Plus 1 for each additional spell? And maybe higher level witch-hunters can multiply the damage by 2 or 3 or 4 at higher levels? This might be an anti-gish class or anti-CODzilla class!!!!
I'd just do something like the following :
Extra Damage based on highest Spell Level
Level 1 : +1
Level 2 : +2
Level 3 : +1d4
Level 4 : +1d6
Level 5 : +1d8
Level 6 : +1d10
Level 7 : +1d12
Level 8 : +3d6
Level 9 : +4d6
I'd let the Witch Hunter's level have more to do with how many per day (like the Paladin) rather than straight damage.
Neat! Maybe the extra damage can be based on the highest level spell in effect? Plus 1 for each additional spell? And maybe higher level witch-hunters can multiply the damage by 2 or 3 or 4 at higher levels? This might be an anti-gish class or anti-CODzilla class!!!!I'd just do something like the following :
Extra Damage based on highest Spell Level
Level 1 : +1
Level 2 : +2
Level 3 : +1d4
Level 4 : +1d6
Level 5 : +1d8
Level 6 : +1d10
Level 7 : +1d12
Level 8 : +3d6
Level 9 : +4d6I'd let the Witch Hunter's level have more to do with how many per day (like the Paladin) rather than straight damage.
OH, I don't like the idea of a table, especially one that isn't dependent on the PC, but its target. I was thinking, at 1st level the Magic Smite would cause damage equal to the highest level currently cast on the target. At 8th level, it would cause damage equal to double the highest level currently on the target. At 14th, triple. At 20th, quadruple.
Or maybe double at 10th and triple at 20th. Some playtesting would need to be done to see if what was reasonable and balanced in game play.
OH, I don't like the idea of a table, especially one that isn't dependent on the PC, but its target. I was thinking, at 1st level the Magic Smite would cause damage equal to the highest level currently cast on the target. At 8th level, it would cause damage equal to double the highest level currently on the target. At 14th, triple. At 20th, quadruple.Or maybe double at 10th and triple at 20th. Some playtesting would need to be done to see if what was reasonable and balanced in game play.
I'm the opposite. I'd rather have the damage fixed based on the strength of the spell. Afterall, you can only get so much damage out of turning a 1st level buff spell back on the user. By the same token, a 9th level spell should do significantly me damage (max) than a 1st level.
However, if you prefer something that scales with the witch hunter, mix the Rogue Sneak Attack with the Paladin Smite ability.
The witch hunter does 1d6+Spell Level at 1st, and every four levels adds 1d6 to that (5th = 2d6, 9th=3d6, 13th=4d6, 17th=5d6), so a 17th level witch hunter attacking a target with a 9th level polymorph spell on him does 5d6+9 damage per attack (on his first attack, not on each attack I'd say). Then you've got your spell contributing to the damage, but the bulk of the damage coming from the witchhunter's level. I really don't like flat bonus's that double and triple, as when you triple a 9th level spell you get 27pts. That's usually more than what someone can roll on the die in the first place. And that's on top of their normal damage, and hitting 3 times to boot (upping it to 81 damage without rolling a die).
EDIT: Fixed a typo. Also, this mechanic against a 9th level spell at 17 does 13 - 33 extra damage. Tripling the spell level does 27 flat, obviously 27 flat is much better than 13-33.
How about a combination of the flat damage (damage = spell level), with a scaling carrier effect?
At 1st level, dispel magic. At 8th, disrupt 1 round (on a crit, a number of rounds equal to the crit multiplier). At 14th, greater dispel magic. At 20th, disrupt 1d6 rounds (plus crit multiplier rounds)?
How about a combination of the flat damage (damage = spell level), with a scaling carrier effect?
At 1st level, dispel magic. At 8th, disrupt 1 round (on a crit, a number of rounds equal to the crit multiplier). At 14th, greater dispel magic. At 20th, disrupt 1d6 rounds (plus crit multiplier rounds)?
Dispel magic on attacks get's very powerful. I speak from experience. I put such an ability on the Duskblade when I converted him over for PF. He had one use of Dispel combined with an attack per day at 10th, and one of greater at 20th. Even at 12th level the character was rather powerful in a BBEG fight, which is honestly where this ability is going to get used.
Sorry for the delay in response, I snapped off an incisor last night at the gumline, so today's been kind of blechy for me.
How about a combination of the flat damage (damage = spell level), with a scaling carrier effect?
At 1st level, dispel magic. At 8th, disrupt 1 round (on a crit, a number of rounds equal to the crit multiplier). At 14th, greater dispel magic. At 20th, disrupt 1d6 rounds (plus crit multiplier rounds)?
Dispel magic on attacks get's very powerful. I speak from experience. I put such an ability on the Duskblade when I converted him over for PF. He had one use of Dispel combined with an attack per day at 10th, and one of greater at 20th. Even at 12th level the character was rather powerful in a BBEG fight, which is honestly where this ability is going to get used.
Sorry for the delay in response, I snapped off an incisor last night at the gumline, so today's been kind of blechy for me.
oh darn, i know exactly what that feels like. it really hurts so i understand.
How about a combination of the flat damage (damage = spell level), with a scaling carrier effect?
At 1st level, dispel magic. At 8th, disrupt 1 round (on a crit, a number of rounds equal to the crit multiplier). At 14th, greater dispel magic. At 20th, disrupt 1d6 rounds (plus crit multiplier rounds)?
Dispel magic on attacks get's very powerful. I speak from experience. I put such an ability on the Duskblade when I converted him over for PF. He had one use of Dispel combined with an attack per day at 10th, and one of greater at 20th. Even at 12th level the character was rather powerful in a BBEG fight, which is honestly where this ability is going to get used.
Sorry for the delay in response, I snapped off an incisor last night at the gumline, so today's been kind of blechy for me.
Ouch! I hope you feel or get better soon!
THREAD NECRO!!!!!! has anyone worked on this project recently?
i sort of stopped working on the class idea.