|
Has anyody else noticed some of the drug effects listed between the Pathfinder Companion Adventurer's Armory and the GMG don't mesh?
Both books give different descriptions for the effects of pesh and flayleaf. There might be a couple other differences in the drug section, but I don't have my books with me and those are the only two I remember right now. So which version is correct? And what exactly does "immune to pain" mean in the Adv. Arm's description of Flayleaf?
I think that GMG have more expanded and organized rules to drugs. Better mechanics and all. And as it come later, I SUPOSE it's the "correct". But you really can use both (a variant way to prepare it, perhaps?).
Immune to pain means immune to effects that relies on pain, like Symbol of Pain. A minor benefit
|
|
Both good answers. I guess I'm a little perplexed at how much they differ based on how closely they were released to each other, but I suppose some fixes may have been implemented in the GMG at the last minute or something.
I figured the immue to pain thing meant something like that. There's a drug in the Book of Vile Darkness that does the same thing. I was just wondering if Pathfinder had expanded the effect.
James Jacobs mentioned the "immune to pain" thing on another thread; basically, since "pain" isn't really defined, they thought it was confusing.
On a personal note, I hate it when the same feat/item/whatever is published in two different places with two sets of stats. I'd much rather have the developers just "deprecate" the first item (i.e. never mention it again) if they decide they don't like it, and then make a brand new item to replace it.
AA's version of pesh matches the rules for refined pesh in Dark Markets: A Guide to Katapesh (temporary hit points, bonus against fear, Dex and Wis penalties).
AA's version of flayleaf matches the effects described in the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting (painkiller, muscle relaxant, weakening willpower).
I don't know why they have different effects in the GMG, but AA follows the established sources for those drugs.
|
AA's version of pesh matches the rules for refined pesh in Dark Markets: A Guide to Katapesh (temporary hit points, bonus against fear, Dex and Wis penalties).
AA's version of flayleaf matches the effects described in the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting (painkiller, muscle relaxant, weakening willpower).
I don't know why they have different effects in the GMG, but AA follows the established sources for those drugs.
I think (hope) the GMG does for drugs what the PRPG did for poisons and diseases when changing from 3.5, although it sounds like it simplified these particular drugs, which isn't necessarily good.
Creative Director
|
To a certain extent, the problem is that when we publish so many books at once, there's going to be conflicts when those of us working on one book (say, the GameMastery Guide) don't realize that there are similar or even identical topics covered in another book (say, Adventurer's Armory).
Both versions for drugs work fine. I'm frustrated too that they don't work exactly alike, and trying to make sure that multiple systems like this end up working together better in the future is part of my job as creative director. This isn't a problem limited to Paizo, of course. Folks who played 3rd edition D&D likely remember similar disconnects between how super-high-level stats worked in Deities & Demigods and the Epic Level Handbook. And back to Paizo... every time we've published rules for haunts over the years, they've changed. Now that they're in the GameMastery Guide, I like to think those rules have solidified and "locked in," and won't be changing in the future—the same goes for addiction rules.
That said, we had two pages to work out rules for drugs and addiction in the GameMastery Guide, and only a couple of paragraphs for the same effects in Adventurer's Armory. The way I look at it, you should use the Adventurer's Armory rules if you're just introducing drugs and addiction into the game in a casual way, but if you're looking for more robust rules for them, use the GameMastery Guide. After all, we already have multiple ways to accomplish other rules in the game as well. Having multiple options that you can choose from for something your game feels more comfortable with is not necessarily a bad thing.
|
<snip>
Both versions for drugs work fine. <snip>
That said, we had two pages to work out rules for drugs and addiction in the GameMastery Guide, and only a couple of paragraphs for the same effects in Adventurer's Armory. The way I look at it, you should use the Adventurer's Armory rules if you're just introducing drugs and addiction into the game in a casual way, but if you're looking for more robust rules for them, use the GameMastery Guide. After all, we already have multiple ways to accomplish other rules in the game as well. Having multiple options that you can choose from for something your game feels more comfortable with is not necessarily a bad thing.
How will this be handled for PFS OP? I can deal with my homegame just fine, using what I want. But with PFS there will have to be a ruling as to which set of rules will be used.
|
Creative Director
|
How will this be handled for PFS OP? I can deal with my homegame just fine, using what I want. But with PFS there will have to be a ruling as to which set of rules will be used.<snip>
Both versions for drugs work fine. <snip>
That said, we had two pages to work out rules for drugs and addiction in the GameMastery Guide, and only a couple of paragraphs for the same effects in Adventurer's Armory. The way I look at it, you should use the Adventurer's Armory rules if you're just introducing drugs and addiction into the game in a casual way, but if you're looking for more robust rules for them, use the GameMastery Guide. After all, we already have multiple ways to accomplish other rules in the game as well. Having multiple options that you can choose from for something your game feels more comfortable with is not necessarily a bad thing.
That's a question for Josh to answer. And he's out of the country for now, so I wouldn't expect an answer anytime soon.
My preference: Go with the rules in the GameMastery Guide. Those are the most recent rules, after all, and the most detailed, and the most standardized.
|
How will this be handled for PFS OP? I can deal with my homegame just fine, using what I want. But with PFS there will have to be a ruling as to which set of rules will be used.<snip>
Both versions for drugs work fine. <snip>
That said, we had two pages to work out rules for drugs and addiction in the GameMastery Guide, and only a couple of paragraphs for the same effects in Adventurer's Armory. The way I look at it, you should use the Adventurer's Armory rules if you're just introducing drugs and addiction into the game in a casual way, but if you're looking for more robust rules for them, use the GameMastery Guide. After all, we already have multiple ways to accomplish other rules in the game as well. Having multiple options that you can choose from for something your game feels more comfortable with is not necessarily a bad thing.
That's a question for Josh to answer. And he's out of the country for now, so I wouldn't expect an answer anytime soon.
My preference: Go with the rules in the GameMastery Guide. Those are the most recent rules, after all, and the most detailed, and the most standardized.
I would also presume that any PFS adventure would specify how they work, as they tend to presume you only have the Core Rulebook and Bestiary
As a consumer, it's hard not to see the GMG as more canonical than the AA, even if AA if more consistent with previous treatment in the game. For one, I'd guess that GMG is more widely distributed than AA, and more likely to be in print in a few years. As thus, in the future, more GMs are going to be making rulings based on the GMG.