
VM mercenario |

Vancian is all about being scientific. Each spell is a unique and specific formula - gesture these specific ways, speak these specific words, have on hand this specific material - to alter the world. A wizard is an alchemist and scholar who learns these bizarre and exact formula and puts them down in his spell book. The sorcerer is a savant; he doesn't learn the spells, the spells come naturally to him...but they still come to him in the form of these exact formula. He still requires the words and the gestures. Unlike the wizard, he's naturally magical. Thus why he doesn't need the material components; his body and blood are the components. He's still using power around him to do it, he's just doing it naturally.
Psions however do not learn powers as wizards learn spells. There's no book learning. Psionic characters just grasp the power inside of them and thrust it into the world. Wilders literally just grab physics by the collar and headbutts it until it does what they want. Psions reach inside their own mind and pull out what they wish.
Sir, you just won the internet, here take mine.
Seriously next time I hear an argument about psionics I'm going to quote this post. It's just awesome.About the point sistem versus vancian, there's a brazilian D20 book (Tormenta D20) coming this year that is going to use a power points sistem for spellcasting, both arcane and divine. I'm holding judgement till I get a copy but the previews seem really good.

Dabbler |

seekerofshadowlight wrote:Psion do not need to be sci-fi, metal powers have a role from stone age till the gothic era's with ease.In non-sci fi, non-modern settings, it's typically called "mysticism", not "psionics". If pathfinder is going to use the concept, I really wish they'd change the name.
I know what you mean, but the name is really immaterial. You, the DM, can call it whatever you like.

LilithsThrall |
LilithsThrall wrote:I know what you mean, but the name is really immaterial. You, the DM, can call it whatever you like.seekerofshadowlight wrote:Psion do not need to be sci-fi, metal powers have a role from stone age till the gothic era's with ease.In non-sci fi, non-modern settings, it's typically called "mysticism", not "psionics". If pathfinder is going to use the concept, I really wish they'd change the name.
If the name were truly immaterial, we wouldn't have a debate over the past 30 years over whether it belongs in the game.

Dabbler |

Dabbler wrote:If the name were truly immaterial, we wouldn't have a debate over the past 30 years over whether it belongs in the game.LilithsThrall wrote:I know what you mean, but the name is really immaterial. You, the DM, can call it whatever you like.seekerofshadowlight wrote:Psion do not need to be sci-fi, metal powers have a role from stone age till the gothic era's with ease.In non-sci fi, non-modern settings, it's typically called "mysticism", not "psionics". If pathfinder is going to use the concept, I really wish they'd change the name.
Actually, I think it's just unfortunate semantics. If it was called 'Psychic Powers' rather than 'Psionics' it would be different, but because several sci-fi games used 'Psionics' as their 'magic system' for want of a better word, the sci-fi moniker has stuck. And really, that's all it's about.

![]() |

LilithsThrall wrote:I know what you mean, but the name is really immaterial. You, the DM, can call it whatever you like.seekerofshadowlight wrote:Psion do not need to be sci-fi, metal powers have a role from stone age till the gothic era's with ease.In non-sci fi, non-modern settings, it's typically called "mysticism", not "psionics". If pathfinder is going to use the concept, I really wish they'd change the name.
Sorry for the tangent, but this brings up a pet peeve of mine.
One of my brothers, when it's his turn to DM, has this habit of introducing an NPC, and what he does, as his class name. I mean, come on, how much imagination do you have to have to just call that evil sorcerer a warlock, magister, archmagus, etc? Or the half-orc cleric, who leads his tribe, a shaman, mystic, priest, cultist, etc?
In-game, villagers typically won't know the difference between a nature-worshiping cleric and a druid, or a sorcerer and a wizard, or in some cases, a cleric and a paladin, a fighter and a ranger, etc. So, why not name them for what they do in game, instead of what they are out of game?
[/rant]

LilithsThrall |
LilithsThrall wrote:Actually, I think it's just unfortunate semantics. If it was called 'Psychic Powers' rather than 'Psionics' it would be different, but because several sci-fi games used 'Psionics' as their 'magic system' for want of a better word, the sci-fi moniker has stuck. And really, that's all it's about.Dabbler wrote:If the name were truly immaterial, we wouldn't have a debate over the past 30 years over whether it belongs in the game.LilithsThrall wrote:I know what you mean, but the name is really immaterial. You, the DM, can call it whatever you like.seekerofshadowlight wrote:Psion do not need to be sci-fi, metal powers have a role from stone age till the gothic era's with ease.In non-sci fi, non-modern settings, it's typically called "mysticism", not "psionics". If pathfinder is going to use the concept, I really wish they'd change the name.
Yes, it's unfortunate semantics - which can be fixed by changing the name.