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On a more serious note; check out the venue you play at.
Remove or play away from unnecessary distractions, wherever possible.
A TV going in eyeshot can drag the players out of character, especially if it prompts jokes and recaps of last week's episode.
A laptop at the table is becoming more common, but make sure the operator is only using it for game-related stuff, not tootling round the web.
Switching off all distractions is harder, if there are non-gaming family or housemates around, especially if the non-gamers have a reputation for being sarcastic or dismissive about gaming.
Even if they're not, and are quite happy to let you play in peace, many players will still be wary of fully letting go, and showing emotional responses to their imaginary character's situation in front of 'normal' folk, for fear of being seen as geeky.
It may be worth considering stumping up for some pizza money, or something, to get the non-gamers out of the house for a bit (and they can go on a food run for your players, too, meaning they don't have to break character halfway during the game).
Rust monsters. Seriously, watch them go from "we're the PCs, we can take anything!" to "OH GOD IT JUST MELTED MY MAGIC SWORD, RUN AWAY!!!" in 1 round flat.
I think the mood of the campaign might be a bit too much roll the dice, create a certain mood or urgency with RP and gothic elements perhaps to make them interact more with the feel of the campaign, might work.
Perhaps they are just pretty hopeless though xD.
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Some of them have however a short attentionspan and end up discussing everything from exalted to how i met your mother...
You met my mother? Seriously?
I've started giving these people ingame punishments, the only kind that seems to work on these people too... XP deductions.
You're never going to stop people chatting out of character, especially if they haven't seen each other for a week; what you can do is tell them you're setting specific time aside, at the beginning and end of the night for such talk. You'll usually have people waiting for the others to turn up or pack up. Get them to get it out of their system then.
There's a couple of things/scenarios I use to really hammer home that the PCs are not god-like entities.
Alternatively, have the PCs be in a small village when a high-level (say 16-20th level) Vampire Fighter and his Spawn attacks. They get to watch as the Vampire pretty much wades through every militia soldier and themselves, (be careful as the GM to give the PCs the opportunity to escape, the Vampire is only 'having fun' and isn't likely to chase after a group of prey when there's a whole village left to drain and torment!). PCs watch as the NPC that they all know is more powerful than they are charges the Vampire, strikes him ... and the Vampire's retaliation is to rip the former Knight's head right off his shoulders with a single wrench.
A third option could be for the PCs to be dealing with what they believe they are dealing with just an 'ordinary' caster who, after the PCs launch a foolish frontal attack, unleashes a spell such as Disintergration which just barely misses one of the PCs and burrows a tunnel strait out of the room/cavern and to the outside. PCs will be going "Auuuuuuugh!" as the little corner of your brain that is always metagaming goes "Shit, Disintergration is what level spell, and that hole is 80 feet long? Eeeep!" Other spells that can quite likely just about beat the tar out of the PCs but still give them the opportunity to escape, such as a Chain Lightning spell that just barely misses the PCs, or summoning Large-Size elementals that can menace the PCs solo, let alone in a group, can help push them to realise that you can and will kill them with just a single NPC.
The PCs are powerful. Great. Can they handle an endlessly regenerating monster such as a Legendary Troll? Can they handle the nearly infinite legions of cat-sized mutant fire-ants spilling out of a alchemically-tainted Ant Hive? PCs will eventually have to retreat, and an enemy too blood-maddened or enraged to let them go can potentially hound PCs until they drop dead frome exhaustion. Trolls are great for this, as a Troll suitably angered by the PCs attacking it can theoretically follow them for days, effectively immune to fatigue thanks to it's Regeneration abilities, and even if the PCs are of a Level able to handle a Troll, they should be wary of such a foe as such monsters are the stuff of many Bard-tales, unless they spent their entire lives in a region completely cut off from the rest of the world and monsters in particular.
Large numbers of foes that just keep coming (accidentally breaching a Necromancer's 'armory' and unleashing hundreds of HD of Skeletons and Zombies can be 'fun' for the DM to inflict on cocky players) can force PCs back, else they will be overwhelmed. In such situations all but the dumbest players will discover discretion is the better part of valour, even Paladins will know to fall in combat is a worthy end, but to let that evil then march unopposed on the innocent is not, will fight their way free of the mob and run for friendly territory.
Alternatively, throw horror components at them. The Sentient Flesh Golemn seeking companions, even if he has to stitch them together himself, the cursed village where everyone born in the place turns into a Werewolf at night and the PCs must try to make it through the night without dying, being bitten and cursed themselves or slaying the villagers who might very well be unable to stop themselves, or even an encounter where the essence of an Chuluthu-style Elder Evil has been accidentally uncovered by a beneficient organisation, and the PCs must deal with a self-sufficient fragment of a mind so alien and poisonous to the Material Plane that merely coming close to it sends the PCs into random nightmares, causing them to lose trust in what their senses percieve and possibly letting a monster get close enough to savagely maul them.
In short, tell the PCs that you will be throwing encounters at them where nothing is what it quite seems, that there will be times they must tuck tail and run and other times when they will have no choice but to stand and fight, no matter the cost. Most Players/Gamers will enjoy the opportunity to Roleplay this to the hilt, giving their character fears and phobias, things they quite simply cannot face or will throw their characters completely off their game, turning the normally unflappable Wizard into a panicking mess, the unstoppable barbarian into a cringing mess under the table, so on and so forth. I demand from my players 4 things their character loves dearly, in order of importance, 5 things they are afraid of, in importance of the level of fear, 3 things they are embarrassed about, 2 things they are proud of and 1 thing they'd be willing to kill to keep a secret.
Also do they think running away will work? Or do they think it's simply slowing down the dying process?
Could be you as a GM are too far over their heads and they just don't care figuring it doesn't matter anyways.
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You said they don't have any magic weapons, so they're clearly very low level. When you described the monster (from your OP) did you tell them that they're weapons were not effective against the creature's DR? Remember that the rules say that PCs can see that they're weapons are not effective (well, unless they're blind or something).
I find that the most effective way to scare my party is to use waves of enemies. Give them a few that they can take out without too much trouble, but make it hurt -- something that forces them to use some healing. But make that combat loud so that it attracts others. The second wave should be about the same number as the first, ideally appearing from around a corner or something so that they PCs get 1 round of prep -- and bring in the second wave just as the last of the first group goes down.
Now, while they're in the middle of the second wave, bring in the third. It should be twice as large as the first wave and there should be plenty of notice for the PCs: loud noises of creatures coming, or the ability to see them far enough away so that there are 2 or 3 rounds of escape possible.
And be careful that the party isn't boxed into a corner where they can't run away. For this to work you may need to fudge the damage rolls so that PCs are brought to 1 hp instead of -1 hp. I run all of my games using computer software (MapTool nowadays) and it tracks both PC and NPC stats so I know the PC's hit points with just a mouseover on their token/figure/miniature/whatever.
You're trying to make the combat obviously hopeless, but also give them a way out. I find that 3 waves is usually enough. My party recently ran away from a combat involving four-armed flying gargoyles ... when a Huge dragon appeared near the end of the fight! The gargoyles had softened them up (along with a weird black mist of shadows as the breath weapon of the dragon -- twice!) so when the dragon appeared, they knew they were outmatched. The paladin tried to hold the rear guard while the party fled and the paladin fell. But he's a paladin, y'know? He's supposed to do that kinda' stuff. :)
One thing not mentioned yet is to talk to the players. Sometimes asking "Why didn't you run?" is enough. Better yet, ask "Why aren't you running?" during the encounter.
If the answer is that they weren't paying attention to how much damage (or lack of damage) they were doing, then maybe there are too many distractions. In one of my 3.5 games, I had to forbid people from having laptops because they were playing WoW during the game.
It could have been a matter of pride, especially for the first example. A monster that only deals 1 - 2 damage every hit isn't scary. It's an ankle-biter. It's possible the party thought a single crit would kill it and were just hoping for the chance.
They might have been thinking "He wouldn't put us up against an impossible monster." Was the party changing tactics, trying different methods of attack in the hope that something would work?
Generally, waves of enemies (as was mentioned) work better, because the party gets to wade in first, then realize they are outmatched. It's more satisfying to know you at least took a few out before you had to run. Something for the monsters to remember the PCs by.
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It sounds to me like they're having fun. . . .
So I'm not too sure there's a real problem here.
Do they get upset or frustrated when their PCs die?
Do they get mouthy about bad DMing?
Are they being Turtled?
Really, this sounds like you just game for something different than they. No biggie. It happens all the time.
Once you know what they like: hanging out laughing and attacking every NPC they ever encounter, half your job is done. Now all you gotta do is figure out what you have fun doing.
...........................................
Regarding getting them to run -- maybe they do, afterall, become turtled occassionally, or get frustrated -- have a metagame conversation with them.
Express how very shocked you were when they didn't run away at the beginning of the second round of initiative....
Casually remark that there are two types of game worlds (as described in 3.0's DMG): those where the PCs only run into stuff that they can challenge and those where the PCs may run into anything. The Real DMG has a blurb discussing gaming atmospheres with both types.
. . . .
One of the things I do to scare PCs into running, part of Heavy-Metal Orc's post, is scaring them with something that will kill them if it cares to. Do you know the picture of the Lich experimenting on the Aboleth coprse on his laboratory/table? -- it's in Mona and Jacob's 3.5 Expedition to Castle Greyhawk hardback. Lidda the Thief accidently squeezes her head into a crack in the wall and sees the horrific scene, along with the reader.... Well, maybe I'll tell my Players they see that -- particulary after those same Players lost several of their PCs to that same Aboleth a few sessions earlier.
The lich looks up, sees the PCs and isn't in the mood to be interupted, even by stupid PCs 15 APLs lower than he. I, the trusty DM, start rifling through my dice, letting everyone know I'm counting out d6s for his fireball. I purposely don't just grab all the d6s, I want to take the time to count out, like, 34 of them for his, I remark, Empowered, Custom-built Fireball. Then I check my notes trying to find the Ref DC and, oh, there it is, DC 33 for half damage.
Are you guys ready to roll initiative, I ask?
Oh, sure, you can roll a Sense Motive on the Lich; DC 2.... Made it?... He looks like he is in the middle of his research and doesn't want to be bothered.
Okey-dokey, everyone, roll initiative; the Lich rolled a 9 -- he goes on 36.
What's that Dave, you never even entered the room?.... What do you mean, Bob, why should you get an immediate action to run away?.... Oh, we're still in the surprise round and you all want to run away?
-- After only one of these encounters your PCs should get the idea.
But again, I don't know that they need to.
It's very likely that you oughta let them attack every NPC they see. If they die and don't mind -- if they're having a blast, it's all cool.
PS:
Snorter,
It was at Nood Gaming Night
A couple thoughts.
One - I hate to metagame. But I've learned over the years, that sometimes you have to spell stuff out for the PCs so they don't get frustrated. Everyone's had very different gaming experiences, and some players think that they have to bang their head against the opponent or scene at hand until it gives up, and that that's what you expect from them. You should spell out to them in explicit terms "I am running a sandbox. You will have the opportunity to meet stuff that will totally kill you. Be smart." In my current campaign I did this but had the problem with more subtle stuff (why can't we get all the clues we need from this one location, grr we're angry) and though I prefer to let things in game develop in game, sometimes you need to just put in an out of game DM thought. "Guys, you really think you're not able to hurt it - it doesn't look any more wounded then when you started and you've given it some of the best licks you know how."
Two - in game, you can do stuff like have someone beat the stuffing out of them in a nonlethal contest. Let's say they meet the evil duke at court or whatever and can't fight it out, but a bareknuckle brawl or to-first-blood duel happens and they clearly get owned. It opens their mental door to "hey we can get owned." Have an NPC that is clearly higher level, ideally one they know, get torn up by whatever it is. "Conan saved us from that owlbear when it was tearing us all up, and that thing just one-shotted him!"
Three - let them die and come back as new characters. If they have the intelligence of Muppets it should sink in after the third PC or so. Or maybe they just like that, it's very Old School - slay until slain, generate new character, rinse and repeat.
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Lots of enemies. Sheer hp attrition is scary.
Massive damage. If the fighter loses over half his hp in one round, things get urgent.
Touch attacks and ability damage. If your Con is dropping every round, you're in trouble. I simulated a Saw-style wake-up-in-the-dungeon-poisoned by dealing 1 Con damage every ten minutes of game time.
Just make sure the party is capable of overcoming these things unless you want character death.
Hello there!
I have been acting as a storyteller for quite some time now in my group of friends and I see myself as atleast a bit experienced in this field.
But I still have a couple of problems, the biggest of mine is...
How to make the players afraid? Or atleast understand that running away is an option?
Ive run a couple campaigns now, most of the 3.5 or Pathfinder.
But they tend to end in the same way... TPK.
Looking at the first example, the problem might be that the players did not realize their characters were in danger. After all, the monster only does 2 hp per round, so eventually, sooner or later, they have to get through.
The problem with the first encounter was that there was no knowledge that this monster required something they didn't have. In my practice, if there is something that the PCs have to know, I usually make sure they know it either by having someone tell them outright, or just giving the knowledge to someone who has sufficient ranks in Knowledge. (e.g. instead of rolling, my notes will say that PCs with x ranks in Knowledge (religion) will know ...)
On the other hand, if the players keep getting their characters killed again and again, I have to wonder. The first time I had a TPK in my game, the players figured out that they had to be a little more careful in the future.
You might talk to one of the players and find out why they are doing the same thing over and over when it is not working.
I had this same problem.
It was actually worse, my players would routinely call out in the middle of the game "What CR is this thing?!" and "That's totally inappropriate for characters of our level!"
I had to take a few minutes to explain my philosophy on encounters to the players. Actually, this was several conversations over the course of two or three weeks.
Many players expect the Sorting Algorithm of Evil in games because they've read the books and/or GMed and they know how it's supposed to go:
"Challenge Rating means that I level up after 13.3 boring encounters no matter what, I have to be brain dead to die, and if the GM goes above that number by too many he is cheating."
So I told them: "Forget about CR. There is no CR in the world. Powerful monsters are rare, but you should expect to encounter them. And if you do something stupid, those monsters will kill you. There is no god of challenges who is pitching you softballs. Your characters will only live to be high level if they are smart enough to run away when the time comes." So far, my explanations have worked well and everyone is enjoying the game a little bit more knowing that their decisions have consequence.
You should have a conversation with them about this, be explicit, and then drop in a few "illustrative" encounters with creatures that are known to be way above their CR. Not creatures that have to be defeated for plot reasons, but maybe a dragon steals a (non companion) horse while they're on a mountain road. If they got the message, they'll mourn the horse and move on. If they didn't get the message, they'll draw arrows and opt in to their own deaths. Repeat these kinds of encounters occasionally until you've conditioned them to think twice about charging in to a tough situation.
Sometimes I will run into the opposite problem: GMs who make sure that the PCs don't die no matter what.
I remember playing one game, with 4th level PCs, where after a bit of frustration, my PC followed another PC into the local lord's mansion, confronted him in his office, and attacked him.
My first thought was that if the PCs ever did anything like that in my game, they would be _so_ dead.
But we survived, and killed the noble, and got out of town. The strangest thing was that the noble had a supernatural bodyguard, against which our party could do nothing, and yet the bodyguard refused to defend the noble. The GM explained that his term of service had just expired or something. Maybe the GM was planning that to happen all along.
Maybe you could put up a placard right in front of your GM's screen, saying how many PCs you've killed so far.
enough said.
Running is hard to do in the game rules
This is true. A truly bloodthirsty enemy with a serious advantage can usually kill at least one PC even if they try to flee.
However, many creatures may not be motivated to give chase, either because they are guarding a nest or lair, or because they don't wish to be drawn into a trap, etc. Animals, even vicious ones, once wounded are likely to decline a chase, unless they are hungry. Dangerous animals see the opponent backing down and fleeing as a victory condition.
As a GM, I always try to keep an in-character rationale tucked away that I can use to grant mercy to the PCs if things should get out of hand. Not an excuse that will stop them from dying outright, but some misconception or personality flaw of the NPC that may buy them an extra round. In the case of one very famous lamia matriarch who had the PCs on the ropes, the fact that she stopped to gloat (thinking the others were out of the fight) was enough to turn the tide just barely.
If the PCs have the good sense to flee when they should, I'm definitely more inclined to "help" by giving them that lucky break — a ditch to jump into, a vine to swing on, a door to shut.
Interesting topic.
1. kill one character in 1 round, using their own tactics, literally have the character torn limb from limb by a baddy so bad, it causes terror in your characters, the character could be a cohort, or a higher level guide...or the cleric...
it can be cruel, but teach them a lesson...
2. kill the entire party, then have them wake in a cold sweat, what a horrible nightmare...."wait...we all had the same nightmare?"
This will show them that not everything can be defeated..perhaps have several nightmares over several nights.
3. Take a night out of normal play and play some Call of Cthulhu, that'll teach em to run...
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I've found that the best way to get the characters in the "we should probably run away" mindset is to start the fight with a fatality. You basically end up having to kill a PC in the first round of combat or, at the very least, you have to deal so much damage that the party should seriously consider "If it does that every round, we are SCREWED."
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I've found that the best way to get the characters in the "we should probably run away" mindset is to start the fight with a fatality. You basically end up having to kill a PC in the first round of combat or, at the very least, you have to deal so much damage that the party should seriously consider "If it does that every round, we are SCREWED."
do this once, and your players will begin to optimize for either A: as instant Resurrection as possible, or B: don't die under any circumstances.
a wizard cohort in Savage Tide made it almost all the way through the path (died once in Into the Maw, IIRC), mostly due to craven tactics and fleeing at the earliest opportunity.
if you KEEP doing it, they will get into the "Murder-Death-Kill" mode of thought, where everyone has +30 init and can one-shot any APL+4 critter about 25% of the time. If they fail at their death blow, most characters turn into treasure-piles for the next PC group to sort through.
I find the more descriptive (or if there's really great art...Akata, some of the plant monsters in the Bestiary, anything out of Lords of Madness) I can be, with dripping goo and big pointy teeth, tentacles and flaming probosces of spiked intrusion, the more spooked the players get.
Some players have certain fears, themselves...even if their PC (love the Fear/Love/Secret thing upthread, definitely going to steal that) is fearless or completely stupid, some things just set people off. Spiders, snakes, lawyers, whatever it is, used judiciously, it makes for dramatic table time.
Finally, as has been said above, if you want a "Here There Be Monsters" old-school game, and the players are expecting a more "Diablo" esque adventure, you're both going to be disappointed. Talk with the group, and they may turn around to your way of thinking (or you to theirs...)
The fact that they don't run could also be due to rules/metagame reasons.
I'm not sure if that is really metagaming, the the issue is being able to get out, rather than keep getting your butts kicked.
But that is a point. I had a TPK once because the PCs did not know how to get out of the dungeon, so they kept on until finally they were overpowered. They had been knocked low on hit points in a hard fight, and knew that the entrance to the dungeon was covered by a gauntlet of dryad archers whom they had to get past to get into the dungeon. There was a secret door to a passage that would have led them to safety, but the PCs did not know that.
It probably wouldn't have been as big a problem if the party's druid had not decided to betray the party. That may also have been a factor in the TPK, and I feel rather badly about that, but that is another thread, i.e., what to do when one player does something really stupid that gets the rest of the party killed.
As a player, it's hard to know if:
A) This encounter is just challenging; or
B) This encounter is too tough for us.
It's up to the DM to more or less "spell it out" that the encounter is too tough for them.
Having said that, it doesn't sound as if your players are very bright. Next time you should be extremely direct with them. For example:
You: "Your attacks don't seem to damage him very much and when he is wounded, his wounds seem to close on their own. He seems very fresh and you guys are getting tired. It's your turn."
You: "The boat will take about 60 seconds for the trolls to cross. Trolls move quickly, without a horse some of you won't be able to outrun them. They're also extremely big and tough and you know from legend they regenerate even the most brutal blows. They're approaching closer as we speak, what would you like to do?"
One good trick that can only really be used once:
Half-way through the fight, have your BBEG trounced/suddenly attacked/one-round-turned to mulch by an EVEN BIGGER BBEG...
..we had an encounter with a Gnoll Fighter/Bard (the defender of the 'sacred' site) where the DM was intent on having us retreat into a cavern complex (which led to a lost shrine). He dropped a few hints and we deduced that the Gnoll was at least 4-5 levels (We were, on average, level 3) above us when he dropped the cleric in by the third round *WHILST CHUCKLING*...
However, Being stubbon bastards we insisted on sticking around even though the Gnoll was shouting things like 'Flee you fools!' and 'Begone foul defilers!' etc etc..
...anyhoo, the DM snapped and had a Nalfeshnee emerge, violently, from the Gnolls body, sending Gnoll-gibs splattering everywhere.
Even though none of us spoke Abyssal we finally took the hint and cheesed it.
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Divorce the game from knowable statistics. Players take an unreasonable amount of comfort in knowing, or being able to intuit, the attributes of their adversaries. True fear arrives from the unknowable - so lead them into the dark.
- Introduce a monster of your own creation. Give it a power or attribute that has never been seen in a bestiary.
- Put them in the shoes of NPCs. Give them commoner character sheets and slaughter then with some terrible, largely unseen adversary. Kill them all. And then have them switch to their PCs to hunt the thing.
- Cross the line. Burn the wizard's spellbook. Cut out the bard's tongue. Crush the archer's favored hand. Condemn the cleric. Maul the fighter. Make them miserable.
- Run combat as quickly as the rounds happen in-game. Give each player only six seconds for any action and then pass them by if they cannot decide. Keep it fast, keep it fierce.
- Put them in a dungeon of impenetrable darkness and run the game with the lights out. Describe everything only by scent, touch and sound. Keep a few glow in the dark dice handy.
- Have the PCs fight themselves. Use their favored tactics against them.
Above all, remove your players from the comfort of their character sheets and the well worn paths of tired story structures. If you want to scare the characters, scare the players.
The hardest part about getting players to run away is making it fun to do so. How fun is it to be faced with an impossible challenge? The players want to think of themselves as being awesome. Is this a bad thing? It's almost like some of you think so.
I've lost characters because of encounters too tough for to face and I've very nearly TPKed my players by having this mentality. It isn't healthy. Yes, there should be things a party can't take on just yet, but if you put them in front of the players then of course they're going to think they can take it on. It is a game after all.
If he solution must be to run away then also give the NPC a reason to leave or disregard the players. If running is the only option then players should die, because no one makes a character just to run away.
Neither should they.
The hardest part about getting players to run away is making it fun to do so. How fun is it to be faced with an impossible challenge? The players want to think of themselves as being awesome. Is this a bad thing? It's almost like some of you think so.
I've lost characters because of encounters too tough for to face and I've very nearly TPKed my players by having this mentality. It isn't healthy. Yes, there should be things a party can't take on just yet, but if you put them in front of the players then of course they're going to think they can take it on. It is a game after all.
If he solution must be to run away then also give the NPC a reason to leave or disregard the players. If running is the only option then players should die, because no one makes a character just to run away.
Neither should they.
As Kenny Rogers said, you've got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, and know when to run.
Reasons for putting the PCs up against an unbeatable encounter:
1. The Sorting Algorithm of Evil does not apply in this setting. Therefore it is possible for the PCs to blunder into the 12th level monster's lair. It is the PC's responsibility not to go there until they are ready for the 12th level monster.
2. The Sorting Algorithm of Evil does not apply, so the 12th level monster is as likely to wander through town as anybody else. The PCs should realize that they are not ready to battle the Evil Baron, just because he happens to be in town on that day.
3. The GM may expect the PCs to do something other than battle their way through. Maybe an Iron Golem blocks the path, and the PCs have to find the secret to getting the Golem to let them through.
4. It makes sense for a certain character to be a certain level. The castle of the King probably has a number of knights and wizards above 10th level, since these are the best in the realm. If the PCs decide to take them on when they're only 3rd level, they're not very bright, IMHO.
5. The dungeon might not be designed to be cleared out in one day. Perhaps the 2nd Encounter was a bit tougher than usual, so by the time the PCs get through with Encounter #3 they should know they are not ready for Encounter #4.
6. An encounter may be tougher than the GM thinks it is. Even with CR and Levels and all the guidance in the world, it is hard to know how a specific party will meet a specific threat. Maybe the evil Druid and his companions are within the PC's EL range, but for one reason or another, they just don't have the resources to defeat him. Maybe the GM gave him too many dryad archers. Maybe the PCs don't have the weaponry to defeat the monster with damage reduction. Maybe the Dire Lion does too much damage in one blow.
It's a dangerous world out there. And with a GM like me, it is close to existential.
That said, PCs usually win. Even if they have to retreat, they regroup, and come back. They might have to get weapons, learn secrets, recruit helpers, come up with a better strategy, or just go back and recover their spells. That's part of life.
I find the more descriptive (or if there's really great art...Akata, some of the plant monsters in the Bestiary, anything out of Lords of Madness) I can be, with dripping goo and big pointy teeth, tentacles and flaming probosces of spiked intrusion, the more spooked the players get.
This. I pull the images out of the PDFs and display them to my players, and I've found that they are much more likely not to charge in recklessly when they can see the monster/NPC instead of just hearing a description of it. Read them a description, and they think, "Yeah, we can take this"; show them a good picture of a well-equipped NPC or scary-looking monster, and they're like, "Dang, he looks tough ... I don't know ...."
The hardest part about getting players to run away is making it fun to do so. How fun is it to be faced with an impossible challenge? The players want to think of themselves as being awesome. Is this a bad thing? It's almost like some of you think so.
I've lost characters because of encounters too tough for to face and I've very nearly TPKed my players by having this mentality. It isn't healthy. Yes, there should be things a party can't take on just yet, but if you put them in front of the players then of course they're going to think they can take it on. It is a game after all.
If he solution must be to run away then also give the NPC a reason to leave or disregard the players. If running is the only option then players should die, because no one makes a character just to run away.
Neither should they.
QFT. Hexcaliber has it right, making players run should be used very very rarely, but some DMs like to use it every second session. It's not fun to run, it doesn't feel heroic, and it doesn't make the game fun.
The real challenge is to make running fun, or at least feel strategic.
As you can see, there's no shortage of advice about how to scare your players, but it comes down to two- make them feel vulnerable and isolated. The best resource I've come across is GURPS Horror- it's pretty much a crunch lite dissection of what is scary and how to bring those scares into a game- far superior to Heroes of Horror, imho. I've been playing CoC for years and find a number of tricks that will get your players on edge:
Play when it's dark, preferably without curtains- it's a basic one, but if you've ever tried to tell a ghost story on a sunny morning, you'll know just how it feels.
Low creepy music on random/loop. pick you poison, but it has to be the kind of thing that can be present without being invasive.
Get them uncomfortable- it doesn't have to be much, just enough to make them fidget a bit- I used to get everyone to share a couch, that way, their own tension would feed off each other and slowly make them more jumpy.
Speak low- not a whisper, but enough that everyone quiets down and strains to hear you clearly- tenses the body like you'd not imagine.
Add real jeopardy- madness, taint or just plain death/ mutilation- these mechanics, if used properly, can make a group be very very hesitant to go kicking in door willy nilly.
Don't be too quick to show the shark- remember Jaws? With horrible things like mindflayers, give the players a preview of what they can expect- hollowed out craniums, or even witnessing a feeding- play it up and use your powers of description to give the feeling that they may be well overmatched.
Mess with their safety zones- There are plenty of creatures or mechanisms to disable or negate a cocky players go-to Feats or Spells.
A lot of great advice so far.
One thing to watch for is the way the story signals the players. They often assume that every monster they see is meant to be fought and defeated. Even when you give a fearsome description, players will often see it as a call to battle.
Be aware of your players and their tension. When they are on the edge of their seats, even if they are hell bent of fighting, then you have scared them.
Now the trick is getting them to run away, and that is not always easy. Dominate the battle with overwhelming force. Show off the POWER of the opposition. Kill powerful NPCs before their eyes. If a player decides he is going to be a martyr, have the BBEG hit the PC for almost all his HP. The important thing is to show them that if they don't start running, they will die. If a player STILL doesn't believe that you are going to drop the hammer, ask them "are you sure you want to do that?"
Also, when you do eviscerate some NPC or maim a player, that's when you want to do an extra gory description and put the fear of death into them. That extra description lets them know that their lives are on the line. If you give a short description, then its almost like you are expecting an action in kind from the players.
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Henrik,
Now the big question is, after they ran from the werewolf and you were so proud a tear came to your eye -- was it obvious that the Players had a blast with those kobolds and fun while they ran?!?
Cuz I bet you that, when asked, your players will describe that encounter as their favorite encounter in quite a while.
JUST REMEMBER, you don't want to overdo it with impossible monsters. Don't turtle your players.
And, now that they know they can be killed by impossibly powerful monsters, throw them an occassional bone of really wimpy monsters -- an encounter against kobolds that need a nat 20 just to hit but keep coming on, doomed to die. Let the PCs have lots of fun roleplaying out the fight. Cuz, really, they just need like, a 3 or 4 to hit and the kobolds only have like, 2 HP each.
AND DON'T ARBITRARILY KILL A PC AT THE BEGINNING OF A ROUND JUST TO SCARE EVERYONE.
It doesn't matter that other folks have said that that's cool -- randomly killing a PC just to scare everyone is bad DMing.
How to make the players afraid?
1) Place a loaded handgun on the table.
2) Tell players, "You really don't want your PC to die tonight..."
3) Have fun!
One problem may be a fear of metagaming. I have been in plenty of situations where I (me the player) knew we should run, but there wasnt any reason the character should know it. I know a first level party will not be able to take on 4 trolls but what does the character know? Does he run from any scary challenge? Not much of a hero right?
In our group when something like this comes up we allow 'gut checks', which is kind of an unofficial knowledge check (int+wis+character level) to know something the character may or may not know. In the case of where the party should run but hasnt, i allow a gut check to realize they are in over their heads. Because if you wait for a monster to SHOW them they are in over their heads you probably already have a pc dead, dieing or close, and they soon will not be able to run without abandoning a comrade which almost always forces a fight in my experience.
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The best way to get a group to fear for their lives is by setting the mood early. I ran Hollow's Last Hope last year, but instead of just playing it up as just another "Level 1 Adventure", I really went out of my way to establish a latent sense of dread before the PC's even hit the dungeon.
On the way to the dungeon, I described the unnatural chill in the air, and inexplicable fog that surrounded the place. The murders of razorcrows that stared hungrily at them from seemingly every tree occasionally shattered the preternatural silence with a menacing "CA-CAWWW!" really set them off.
By the time they encountered their first monster (zombie of a sick little girl who turned on her family while out on a picnic, CR 1/4), they were ready to run for home.
Once sufficiently terrified, the group took great care in measuring up every monster, and they managed to only lose one party member in the BBEG fight.
One problem may be a fear of metagaming. I have been in plenty of situations where I (me the player) knew we should run, but there wasnt any reason the character should know it. I know a first level party will not be able to take on 4 trolls but what does the character know? Does he run from any scary challenge? Not much of a hero right?
In our group when something like this comes up we allow 'gut checks', which is kind of an unofficial knowledge check (int+wis+character level) to know something the character may or may not know. In the case of where the party should run but hasnt, i allow a gut check to realize they are in over their heads. Because if you wait for a monster to SHOW them they are in over their heads you probably already have a pc dead, dieing or close, and they soon will not be able to run without abandoning a comrade which almost always forces a fight in my experience.
I think that "adventurers" would hear enough tales in the taverns that they'd have a good idea as to which monster types are out of their leagues. At low levels they should be fighting kobolds and goblins, and even bugbears and gnolls, although the later should be approached with caution and superior numbers.
I even had an NPC in my game say flat out "Gnolls are tough. You're probably going to die." He was the baron's head military trainer whose job it was to train commoners to fight. Never to be confused with "Mr. Optimism".
PCs would probably know that trolls are too tough for novice adventurers, while demons and beholders should be reserved for those of "renoun".
How to make the players afraid?1) Place a loaded handgun on the table.
2) Tell players, "You really don't want your PC to die tonight..."
3) Have fun!
LMAO! I would only add that very first you should get up wordlessly and slowly and definitively lock the nearest door.
One problem may be a fear of metagaming. I have been in plenty of situations where I (me the player) knew we should run, but there wasnt any reason the character should know it. I know a first level party will not be able to take on 4 trolls but what does the character know? Does he run from any scary challenge? Not much of a hero right?
Does he RUN from ANY fight? Of course not. Does he pick his battles? Certainly. Unless your PC is vainglorious or naive.