I want to know, when a caster die, his spells end with his death or not? For exemple, a sorcerer cast a "bull's strenght" on a fighter, but during a battle, the sorcerer die, the effect of the spell lasts untill the end of the spell or it ends from the moment when the sorcerer die?
I want to know, when a caster die, his spells end with his death or not? For exemple, a sorcerer cast a "bull's strenght" on a fighter, but during a battle, the sorcerer die, the effect of the spell lasts untill the end of the spell or it ends from the moment when the sorcerer die?
The spells stay unless they are dependent on the caster concentrating on them. In that case it will be stated in the spell description.
The spells stay unless they are dependent on the caster concentrating on them. In that case it will be stated in the spell description.
OK ! So the spell lasts after the death of the sorcerer, that's a good news ;-D
Where is this described in the rulebooks? We had a situation in a campaign where a vampire dominated a PC in a dungeon and gave him a single command ("Run!"). The dominate ability reads "as the spell" and has a CL of 12.
School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level bard 4, sorcerer/wizard 5
Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one humanoid
Duration 1 day/level
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes
You can control the actions of any humanoid creature through a telepathic link that you establish with the subject's mind.
If you and the subject have a common language, you can generally force the subject to perform as you desire, within the limits of its abilities. If no common language exists, you can communicate only basic commands, such as “Come here,” “Go there,” “Fight,” and “Stand still.” You know what the subject is experiencing, but you do not receive direct sensory input from it, nor can it communicate with you telepathically.
Once you have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth). Because of this limited range of activity, a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (rather than DC 25) can determine that the subject's behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (see the Sense Motive skill description).
Changing your orders or giving a dominated creature a new command is a move action.
By concentrating fully on the spell (a standard action), you can receive full sensory input as interpreted by the mind of the subject, though it still can't communicate with you. You can't actually see through the subject's eyes, so it's not as good as being there yourself, but you still get a good idea of what's going on.
Subjects resist this control, and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus. Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out. Once control is established, the range at which it can be exercised is unlimited, as long as you and the subject are on the same plane. You need not see the subject to control it.
If you don't spend at least 1 round concentrating on the spell each day, the subject receives a new saving throw to throw off the domination.
Protection from evil or a similar spell can prevent you from exercising control or using the telepathic link while the subject is so warded, but such an effect does not automatically dispel it.
So is that poor PC doomed to run for 12 days (though he does get a new save every day as the caster is obviously not concentrating on the spell - however he is unlikely to make the DC 22 save anytime soon)?
That seems like a real bummer!
The PC would eventually fall from exhaustion. Then it's up to the DM what happens when the PC regains consciousness.
I also think that 12 days of running would result in a life threatening situation and the DM could allow bonuses to the saves prior to dropping.
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The PC would eventually fall from exhaustion. Then it's up to the DM what happens when the PC regains consciousness.
Nope. Per Dominate Person:
Once you have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth).
The PC could sleep, eat, etc with no problems. Just have to run when every they could. The person may run for 12 days, but not for 12 days strait.They may loose some weight. And may not want to go anywhere once it does end, but it would not kill them, or even knock them unconscious.
Yes, the PC would be entitled to stop to eat/drink/sleep etc. Keep in mind that the protection from evil only entitles the PC to a new save, not automatic suppression of the effect, and even then only for the duration of the spell (1 min/level). It just seemed so ridiculous for a single spell to be so disruptive. In effect that one spell set our party back for over a week. In an adventure with a timeline, that could be a potential game-ending event.
In the end what I'm interested in is something from the core rules (or a quote from a developer) that STATES that an effect continues when the caster dies. It is not an obvious conclusion and does not seem to be mentioned. There's a bit of a standing dispute in the group about this point.
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Well, the player should be running in place and still beating the crap out of the bbeg :P
As for core rules about effects and casters, we just need to look at the section on duration in the core book page 217. Death itself doesn't affect magic, but its secondary effects might.
For example, spells with concentration would fail because, being dead, your character can no longer concentrate on the spell.
Frankly, the duration stuff is pretty clear, and it seems counter-intuitive to me to try to apply a standard about the life force of the caster, especially since creatures without a life force can still cast spells.
Heck, who knows what magical items and potions will still work if magic starts failing when the caster dies. You won't find a quote that states that an effect continues when a caster dies because it's already covered under the duration stuff. When you can't concentrate, the spell cancels. For spells that are timed, it doesn't matter if you're alive, dead, planeshifted, polymorphed, or reanimated. The toy has been wound up and will keep moving until it winds down again, with little or no connection to the caster.
Well, the player should be running in place and still beating the crap out of the bbeg :P
unfortunately for us, we were a group of 5 with an average lvl around 10 vs a single CR 9 vampire (using the sample vampire given in the bestiary). With 2 players dominated in the first 3 rounds of combat, one of them running for the hills and the other trying to kill a third party member, it got ugly fast! Granted one of the players really rolled bad, it was still rather harsh.
Not much of a bbeg, eh? The DM was originally gonna throw two vampires at us, but decided to hold back after he saw what happened on the first couple rounds of combat. I'm amazed by how much removing the gaze attack limitation from the vampire dominate ability changed the playing field for them.
Where is this described in the rulebooks? We had a situation in a campaign where a vampire dominated a PC in a dungeon and gave him a single command ("Run!"). The dominate ability reads "as the spell" and has a CL of 12.
** spoiler omitted **...
Seriously "Run" was his command? Heck that's easy, do laps around the party until the problem gets fixed.
In the end what I'm interested in is something from the core rules (or a quote from a developer) that STATES that an effect continues when the caster dies. It is not an obvious conclusion and does not seem to be mentioned. There's a bit of a standing dispute in the group about this point.
Since the game is based on 3.5, the Wizards 3.5 FAQ is useful.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv06302008.zip
Specifically, here's an example that indicates the spells don't expire when a spellcaster dies.
If a spellcaster dies after summoning a monster, does the monster continue to fight?
A summoned monster continues to carry out your last command as best it can, or it attacks your opponents (whoever they were when you died) failing that.
If a spell ended when the spellcaster died, then any creature he summons with a summon monster spell would also disappear. Since that doesn't happen, one can reason that all spells continue through their durations.
Seriously "Run" was his command? Heck that's easy, do laps around the party until the problem gets fixed.
The exact wording of the command is irrelevant as the spell specifies that "You can control the actions of any humanoid creature through a telepathic link that you establish with the subject's mind." So, all the caster has to do is convey the notion that he wants the subject to run away at top speed (as long as you speak a common language).
Seriously "Run" was his command? Heck that's easy, do laps around the party until the problem gets fixed.The exact wording of the command is irrelevant as the spell specifies that "You can control the actions of any humanoid creature through a telepathic link that you establish with the subject's mind." So, all the caster has to do is convey the notion that he wants the subject to run away at top speed (as long as you speak a common language).
The dominated player knows he is dominated, and may just back and forth between the party and another area until it wears off or he gets a save.
From the PRD
...Subjects resist this control, and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus. Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out. Once control is established, the range at which it can be exercised is unlimited, as long as you and the subject are on the same plane. You need not see the subject to control it.
It seems the an open interpretation would lead the victim to do the thing most to its liking. I would not allow the dominated individual to attack the caster or actively oppose him an another way, but indirect things such as trying to hang around would be ok.