So, I'm making a Ranger for upcoming Kingmaker AP and I'm wondering what my first level feat should be. Since Rangers don't need it anymore for Precise Shot I'm wondering whether that +1/+1 are worth it. Since there aren't a lot of sources of extra damage in PF now, I'm not really sure whether I should or shouldn't take it...
Opinions?
So, I'm making a Ranger for upcoming Kingmaker AP and I'm wondering what my first level should be. Since Rangers don't need it anymore for Precise Shot I'm wondering whether that +1/+1 are worth it. Since there aren't a lot of sources of extra damage in PF now, I'm not really sure whether I should or shouldn't take it...
Opinions?
That depends on how much you like to maximize your damage output. It's definitely worth a look in my opinion, if only because there are a couple of points during character progression that you don't really qualify for any other feats that will give you any more of a boost. If you feel more comfortable taking a utility feat in these spots, feel free. A +1/+1 isn't going to make or break a build.
|
I'd say that you should take it. Any bonuses to your damage are good things even if they're limited to a set range. Plus at first level it's going to be very hard to purchase a composite longbow so it might be your only source of bonus damage short of a bard being about.
If your human, I'd grab it and precise shot and then use your combat style feat at 2nd level for rapid shot. :)
I think it is worth the feat. The plus to hit is more important than the damage, but more damage never hurts.
If you have any melee in your group, you're going to need it for Precise Shot to avoid the -4 penalty for firing into melee.
I was incorrect, you are going to need it in order to effectively meet prerequisite requirements on your standard character level granted feats.
Yes, I would say not only is it worth it, its absolutely necessary, and its a fine one for a ray slinging wiz/sorc as well, and if you are bringing in 3.5 spells like the various Orbs of (________) its an absolute no brainer, as are precise shot, range touch wpn focus and range touch spec... rapid shot not so much but it never hurts to stock up on holy water and alchemist fire when you don't wanna burn the spells....
I was incorrect, you are going to need it in order to effectively meet prerequisite requirements on your standard character level granted feats.
Yes, you're right. Unfortunately, I missed that part and I'll need it to pick up Rapid Shot and Manyshot. Too bad, I wanted to take Iron Will at first level...
Now I can't decide whether I should take Deadly Aim at 3rd lvl or go straight for Manyshot (by taking Rapid Shot at 3rd and Manyshot at 5th).
I hate it when I'm not familiar with the system. -.-
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
|
It also depends on the campaign - if you're doing a lot of dungeon crawling and indoor adventuring, you're much more likely to be within the 30' limit to gain the benefit of the feat. If there's going to be lots of wilderness adventuring, then you're more likely to stay at range and not gain the benefit.
If your making an archer Ranger then yes its definitely worth it, as it opens up feats you would otherwise only have access to with Ranger bonus feats. And you want to use the Ranger bonus feats to get 'early entry' feats off the Ranger list, such as Improved Precise Shot. Thus, you want to use your regular feats to get other archery feats, and you'll pretty much need Pt. Blank to do that.
Iron Will isn't a bad choice though, especially if you have a decent wisdom to go with it.
If you are making a choice between taking Rapidshot/Manyshot or Deadly Aim first, and you are figuring on taking both eventually, I'd go with Rapidshot/Manyshot first. Deadly Aim scales faster, but at lower levels Rapidshot and Manyshot will increase your damage output more. 7th level is perfectly acceptable for taking Deadly Aim.
You should check out Treantmonk's Guide to Rangers and look at his archer ranger and 'switch-hitter' ranger builds to get some good ideas.
Deadly Aim scales faster, but at lower levels Rapidshot and Manyshot will increase your damage output more. 7th level is perfectly acceptable for taking Deadly Aim.
Manyshot yes, Rapid Shot, not so sure. With 15 point buy and lower levels having not that many boosts beyond simple +1 on attack rolls of a masterwork/+1 weapon, -2 penalty that Rapid Shot imposes can't really be ignored. What good is 2 attacks if both miss, right? Sure, at 9th lvl or so I'll pick it up, but in the mean time, I'll rely on Manyshot and Deadly Aim to give me steady damage.
I was incorrect, you are going to need it in order to effectively meet prerequisite requirements on your standard character level granted feats.Yes, you're right. Unfortunately, I missed that part and I'll need it to pick up Rapid Shot and Manyshot. Too bad, I wanted to take Iron Will at first level...
Now I can't decide whether I should take Deadly Aim at 3rd lvl or go straight for Manyshot (by taking Rapid Shot at 3rd and Manyshot at 5th).
I hate it when I'm not familiar with the system. -.-
You're right and you're wrong... you don't need to take Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot to qualify for Rapid Shot or Manyshot... those are bonus feats offered at Ranger levels 2 and 6 respectively, and if you read your rulebook carefully, you'll see that it points out you do not need the prerequisite feats to qualify for those, but in this case you can take those Ranger bonus feats without having the prereq's, if you so choose.
Now having said that, although it can be done without those two prereq feats, you might want to take them anyway. Personally, I would rather take Deadly Aim at first level than point blank shot... -1 to hit for +2 dmg for each shot, and it scales nicely as you gain levels. With a high Dex bonus and good BAB, you won't notice the -1 penalty. However, unless your comrades in arms also rely heavily on missile fire, you are going to miss not having Precise Shot once your friends close to melee with the enemy. And sadly, you are required to take the nearly useless Point Blank Shot feat to qualify for the highly useful Precise Shot. Just the way the cookie crumbles...
I know some of you will argue with me about the phrase "nearly useless Point Blank Shot", so let me answer that now: very useful feat for close combat, but dude... you have to be within 30 feet of your foe to use it. Your ranger should be using a Longbow, or at worst a crossbow or short bow. You don't want to take a feat that requires you to get close to use it... and that negates the whole benefit of having a 100 ft. range weapon. You don't want to rely on the benefits of a feat that encourages you to get close enough that after you take your shot, most foes can take a move action to walk right up to you and hit you in the face in melee. Sometimes you can't avoid getting that close, like inside most dungeons, but you don't want to hinge your strategy on getting up close n' personal with a long-range weapon.
If you are playing a human, you get a bonus feat, so you could conceivably take point blank shot and precise shot at 1st level and get them out of the way. Then Rapid Shot adds as a bonus at 2nd level and at 3rd you get the oh-so-important Deadly Aim feat. The other way would be to take Deadly Aim at 1st level and then you can add Precise Shot at 3rd level or later... sooner or later you'll want it. But I personally feel that Deadly Aim is a far superior feat than the other two... you get more bang for your buck. By 4th level, you'd be getting +4 dmg per shot for an extra -2 to hit. Simple math, +4 BAB, an estimated +3 bonus for a conservative 16 Dex maybe, and maybe another +1 for a masterwork weapon. Your goal is to not be very close to your targets, so ignore the PBS +1 if you can avoid it. So while using Deadly Aim you are cranking out single shots at +6 to hit at 4th level for 1d8+4 damage, more if you have a good STR score and a good composite longbow or a magic weapon. With a full attack, you use your Rapid Shot feat to crank out 2 shots at +4 to hit and d8+4/d8+4. Not bad for 4th level... once you start adding more feats the next few levels, Manyshot and Vital Strike will ensure you are dealing out crazy damage at a safe distance.
Don't forget that most NPC villains as written have relatively low ACs at low levels. I think the average for 1st to 4th level critters is roughly somewhere between 13 and 15. And if you have a balanced party, you should be looking at some buffs in there to help you hit: bard song, bless spells, magic weapon spells (that's 50 arrows for one spell!) are all common in our home games at 1st level, and it doesn't take long before other spells come along like Prayer, Haste, Heroism etc. Play the odds, and it will pay off, I guarantee.
Deadly Aim scales faster, but at lower levels Rapidshot and Manyshot will increase your damage output more. 7th level is perfectly acceptable for taking Deadly Aim.Manyshot yes, Rapid Shot, not so sure. With 15 point buy and lower levels having not that many boosts beyond simple +1 on attack rolls of a masterwork/+1 weapon, -2 penalty that Rapid Shot imposes can't really be ignored. What good is 2 attacks if both miss, right? Sure, at 9th lvl or so I'll pick it up, but in the mean time, I'll rely on Manyshot and Deadly Aim to give me steady damage.
So are you taking rapid shot and not using it, or are you skipping the prerequisite for manyshot somehow?
Personally I've found rapid shot to be worth it more often than not. -2 to hit is a 10% (generally) decrease in accuracy while the extra shot potentially doubles damage -- this generally (and very roughly) translates into an 85% increase in damage, and also gives you two chances for a critical hit.
You're right and you're wrong... you don't need to take Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot to qualify for Rapid Shot or Manyshot... those are bonus feats offered at Ranger levels 2 and 6 respectively, and if you read your rulebook carefully, you'll see that it points out you do not need the prerequisite feats to qualify for those, but in this case you can take those Ranger bonus feats without having the prereq's, if you so choose.
Yeah, that was my line of thinking as well, at first glance, but if you look at the feats that are useful for making a top notch archer, you'll see that nearly all of the decent ones require Point-Blank Shot as a prerequisite, and there are far more of them that you will want than you have bonus feat slots.
Skipping PBS is probably doable for a switch-hitter type of Ranger, but for a ranged specialist, you're pretty much forced into grabbing it.