One the DM's that I play with, is going to "downgrade" my monk.
He feels that my monk is over powered and that he can't challenge me without TPKing the party or when he does try to make an encounter to challenge my character that it makes it too difficult for the rest of the party to deal with. He gave the players a 36 points to make their characters. I first decided to play a fighter and after multiple sessions of getting mind controlled I switched to a monk and took a level as a penalty for switching characters at level 7-6.
So far my character is as at lvl 9 Human Monk
STR 24 with +2 strenght item
Dex 16
con 14
Int 8
Wis 18 with + 2 wisdom item
cha 7
I use mage armor with the help of the wizard (I have a wand of mage armor) Ac= 23 + Mage armor (27) and when I feel the need + ki point (31) at level 9. And I purchased a Monk's robe with the help of the party rogue ( I owe her 4000 gp and 2000 for the loan cost/interest). My cmd is 33 and higher when they try to grapple/trip.
My flurry is 14 14 9 9 at 2d6 + 7 and my saves are really good.
Well the dm feels that I'm too good so he decided make me flurry of my dex (+3 instead of + 7) so that I am now at 11 11 6 6 (lvl 9) when I melee flurry. And on top of that he is removing my wisdom to my cmd. When I asked him if I could modify my stats so that I could have more dex instead of str in order to hit more he said no.
This is after he ruled that haste doesn't stack with my flurry (questionable). and that weapon focus: unarmed strike does not add to my cmb (against the rules).
I then asked if I could play another class like a paladin; he said I can't for the reason that I as a person cant play LG characters.
Now he said that im' the only one who powered gamed when the druid started with a 20 wisdom and the dwarven wizard started with a 18 intelligence and 18 con + toughness. And there is a ranged ranger that does redicoulous damage every turn. I feel kind of screwed here when I just played by the rules in the book and get penalized.
I told the dm that the monk is MAD (str + de + con + wis) and I made him to attack well; He ignores my views on that telling me that I only need str + wisdom. The thing that is find the most annoying is that he switches the rules on me well after I've played this character for like 9-10 sessions and doesn't allow me to adjust my stats according to his new rules.
I'm not sure wheather I should stay in the game; or just kill my character via doing stupid things as I do not find this game very enjoyable anymore or just roll with punches until I get more fed up.
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Bad GM is bad. Do you have a particular beef with this guy from before, or maybe one of the other characters/players who is his best friend or something? Did you sleep with his sister or mother??
I'd pretty much tell him to kiss off...I hate rules lawyering, but seriously, the rules for your flurry are what they are, and I'd stick by that. Same with your AC and his other sudden problems with your character.
It sounds like you are very familiar with the game, and it seems like other than your alignment prohibition, you would be able to optimize every other class too, so not sure really what to tell you other than to either work it out with him or leave. Still though, this sounds personal.
Also some bad GMming there too. If a character is too strong on a full attack/flurry, I'd do things to make it impossible for him to do in some fights. Trip attacks, surprise traps, more mooks than you can deal with on your own, stuff of that nature. Constant movement so you can only FoB every so often, things of that nature to make it much more challenging.
Just outright dropping the nerf-bat is poor ability, imho.
Are you not entertained?!
What are you doing that he can't deal with? He may just need to go to DM tactics 101. We give that class for free on these boards.
Could you post the entire build AC, and all?
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What was said above. If he really wanted to "nerf" he could have done it in game by not having a magic item shop that sells anything a player reads about in the rulebook. Besides that flurry of blows I don't think has a huge impact on non-combat... Is his game combat heavy? If I'm playing and spend more than about 25% of game time (on average) having "fights" I tend to look for another group - my wargaming night is something separate.
S.
lvl 9 Human Monk
STR 24 with +2 strenght item
Dex 16
con 14
Int 8
Wis 18 with + 2 wisdom item
cha 7
HP:94 Init:3
Fort:9
Ref: 10
Will:11 + stillmind (+2vs enchanmtent)
bab: 6
Flurry:15 15 10 10 (7+7 str+1 wf:unarmed strike) @ 2d6+7
Shuriken Flurry: 10 10 5 5
Ac: 23/ 7 armor (wisdom) 3 de 1 dodge 1 deflection
touch: 23 Flatfooted: 19
cmb: 9+ 7= 16 + 2 /trip/grapple
cmd: 10 + 6 bab + 3 de + 7 monk ac+ 7= 33 + 2 vs trip/grapple
Feats
Dodge
Weapon focus: unarmed strike
toughness
Improved grapple
step up
combat reflexes
extra ki
improved trip
nimble moves
Stuff
high jump
slow fall 40
wholeness of body
improved evasion
evasion
purity of body
ki points = 10
stunning fist dc= 18
Skills
acro : 15
climb: 11
perception: 16
profession sailor: 13
sense motive: 16
stealth: 11
swim:11
I have -4 to bluff (easily read) for 4 more skill points. GM negative trait.
Items
belt of giant streng +2
headband of wisdom +2
amulet of natural armor +1
cloak of res +1
wand of mage armor 42 charges
wand of clw 33+50
monk robes
400 gold (owe 6000 to rogue so really/ she lent me 4000 gold for monk's robe asked for 6000 returned) -5400 gold.
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Find a different group or, alternatively, offer to take over DM duties and return the favor. He could do any number of things--make you fight in the dark (50% miss chance for total concealment), catch you flat footed, any other number of things that could make you less of a powerhouse. I mean sh!t, even having enemies with sizeable DR that your fists can't overcome would drop you back.
BLUF: This guy doesn't know what he's doing and is bending you over the table to make up for his lack of DM ability. Tell him if everyone else has to follow RAW, then you do too. If he doesn't want to play by the rules find another group or at least another DM.
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Well it's always hard to judge a DM in a thread like this, since of course we don't know what your behavior is like during a game or how the group likes to roll. I can see a few problems though.
A 36 point buy? That's insane straight off the bat, of course with 36 points your going to be a bad mother monk, any character should be godlike with that much stat power backing them up, especially melee characters.
Your AC isn't astronomical, your build is not the most horrifically over optimized thing I've ever seen before (really? 13 ranks of profession sailor?) though you've certainly gotten everything you need, especially in terms of equipment.
Flurry is literally just two-weapon fighting now, so that kind of dexterity house rule makes no sense at all. That is literally the DM just giving you a penalty on your attack rolls. That's completely unacceptable and petty as a DM.
Given the past threads we've seen here I'll assume your fighting like 1 lone enemy all the time that just stands there and lets you full attack him every round rather then a proper encounter.
I'll suggest you should just find a new group though, no reason to hang around with people you don't like who don't like you back.
I'd find a new game. Doesn't sound like it's worth the effort.
The GM is not a bad guy or anything and I don't get the feeling that he hates me or anything. He tends to throw groups of people at us and rarely does the bbeg thing. I just get the feeling that he is doing this cause he hates the class and not me. He just gets annoyed cause I don't take too much damage and I get around rough terrain with my nimble moves feat. The profession sailor is cause of flavor and I used to sail in my story. I'm not sure how he is going to react when i get improved disarm at level 10 if I get to lvl 10.
We were all surprised with 36 points. He said he wanted heroic characters. He said he was annoyed with my low charisma. I told him I don't use it ever as none of my skills have charisma. And my intelligence is enough for me to get what I need.
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Ditch and run, sir.
36 point buy is completely ridiculous. Of course a monk is going to be entirely overpowered with a 36 point buy.
This guy would need to throw groups of dragons at your party to even start making stuff hard, and the effort required to educate the DM without angering him or seeming petty is just not worth it.
Unless they're close friends. Then you need to explain why the standard point buy is FIFTEEN. The game isn't meant to handle characters at your base stat values. If he's going to nerf you he should just reboot the entire campaign and all the characters.
And the charisma thing is the DM trying to play your character. In that context I imagine he just gave high point buy to give people generally high stats. Tell him to do 2d6+6 or 1d8+10 if he really wants to have heroic characters. Point buy doesn't generate heroic characters, it generates pigeonholed characters.
lvl 9 Human Monk
STR 24 with +2 strenght item
Dex 16
con 14
Int 8
Wis 18 with + 2 wisdom item
cha 7HP:94 Init:3
Fort:9
Ref: 10
Will:11 + stillmind (+2vs enchanmtent)bab: 6
Flurry:15 15 10 10 (7+7 str+1 wf:unarmed strike) @ 2d6+7
Shuriken Flurry: 10 10 5 5Ac: 23/ 7 armor (wisdom) 3 de 1 dodge 1 deflection
touch: 23 Flatfooted: 19
cmb: 9+ 7= 16 + 2 /trip/grapple
cmd: 10 + 6 bab + 3 de + 7 monk ac+ 7= 33 + 2 vs trip/grappleFeats
Dodge
Weapon focus: unarmed strike
toughness
Improved grapple
step up
combat reflexes
extra ki
improved trip
nimble movesStuff
high jump
slow fall 40
wholeness of body
improved evasion
evasion
purity of body
ki points = 10
stunning fist dc= 18Skills
acro : 15
climb: 11
perception: 16
profession sailor: 13
sense motive: 16
stealth: 11
swim:11I have -4 to bluff (easily read) for 4 more skill points. GM negative trait.
Items
belt of giant streng +2
headband of wisdom +2
amulet of natural armor +1
cloak of res +1
wand of mage armor 42 charges
wand of clw 33+50
monk robes400 gold (owe 6000 to rogue so really/ she lent me 4000 gold for monk's robe asked for 6000 returned) -5400 gold.
Your AC is 23, and he is complaining?
Most CR 9 monsters can hit you with a 9 or 10 on the dice. You average 13 points of damage per hit so if they have DR/10 they only take 3 points of damage. If he is using humanoids all he can make them however he wants to in order to challenge you.I think the DM needs to come here to get some pointers, seriously. I am not joking. He also needs to pull back on the point buy. He obviously can't handle it. What will he do with the casters when they start to figure things out<---rhetorical question.
What happens during the games that he can't deal with it?
I would try to be civil, and talk to him about it again. If that does not work:
A. Find another group
B. Ask to change characters again(civilly).
C. Get killed on purpose-->this will force him to either allow you to make another character or kick you out.
D. Invite him here so we can help or try too. The monk is really not the class to be worried about.
I really really don't like C. It is more like my anger response than anything I would advocate, but it is an option so I put it there.
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though you've certainly gotten everything you need, especially in terms of equipment.
On that note, do the rest of your group have good magic kit also? Perhaps your DM is regreting the "magic shop Walmart" he's must have introduced? Anyway he does seem to be penalising you for looking at the rules and coming up with some smart choices.
May be chat to him out of game? Do the rest of your group think your stealing the show and making them only bit players during the session?
S.
I ussually get mage armor to make it to 27. and then I use my ki point to make it 31 if I feel endangered. I am also the tank of the group as the group is dwarf wizard/ control druid/ ranged ranger/ elf rogue/ and me (monk)
I don't feel I steal combat/ as I stand infront of the party and protect them while they get to do their thing aswell. It's annoying tanking as a monk/ while the party doesn't appreciate it either.
After seeing the various posts; I think I'm better off leaving the game. Thanks for the replies.
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36 point buy is sooooo beyond heroic. I'd consider something like 20 point buy, a high fantasy campaign to be "heroic" for me.
You are getting buffed by the other party members then, we can assume. You've got a very solid group build.
One of the better ideas for DM's Paizo came up with was putting better limits on the kinds of magic items you can buy at any given down. You've got more then enough casters to probably have access to them crafting but then that's still time and money.
Is the DM new to 3.5 and D&D systems in general? There's really not a lot of excuses for his nerf-battingness of your character other than he's completely dumbfounded on how to handle combat.
A lot of first time DMs think that a monster just flying into base to base combat will turn into a victory for him, and, well, that's pretty much untrue. They don't understand the CR system or the resource system for each encounter.
Is he putting you up against one combat a day? Maybe one per session? That's also a pretty strong newbie mistake.
EDIT: Whoops. I guess you chose to leave. Good luck!
EDIT 2: 36 point buy is a step above epic point buy. Your characters have stat lines that don't compare up to some gods or lesser deities. Your monk has a better stat line than, say, some divine heralds.
EDIT 3: I compared you to the Prince in Chains, divine herald of Zon-Kuthon.
Assuming you pick up a +4 belt and a +4 headband in your travels, by the time you reach 15th level you will have 2 less stat modifiers than the divine herald. Your character is a straight-up badass. Did you know that in most Pathfinder APs, the bad guys have a special quality that says they were literally Born For Greatness capital letters and they have a lower point buy than you?
Point one: 36-point buy? Isn't everyone in the game "overpowered"? At the very least, if he's going to use soooo many points, he should have banned "dump stats" and not let anyone get extra points by dropping anything lower than 10.
Point two: 96 HP? Really? Did the DM give you bonus HP to go along with your 36-point buy? You averaged almost 7.5 on eight 8-sided rolls? Using pure averages, I put you at 71 HP. You have 25 HP more than average which is about 35% above the average. Anyone who is 35% above average (not to mention actually above the maximum possible) will seem "overpowered". Even when he hits you, it just doesn't seem to matter very much since you have so many HP.
Point three: You seem to have below-average wealth and you even had to borrow from another PC. Is this a low-treasure campaign? Are your puny magic items above average compared to everyone else? Did you forget to list some stuff?
All the rest of it seems just fine.
Point 1 is your DM's fault. Point three seems to be in your favor. But point two is the glaring problem. It doesn't matter whether you were lucky, or you cheated, or your DM gave out bonus HP. Whatever the cause, your HP are ridiculously high for your class, level, and CON score. That right there, far more than anything else on your sheet, will blow you into the "overpowered" category by making it seem to your DM that he just can't chop you down.
Compared to a 9th level fighter with your same stats, using greater two-weapon fighting:
He would be using a pair of +2 rapiers:
+21/+21/+16/+16. Damage: d6+14 with critical on 15-20/x2 so he avergages 3.5 damage per hit more than you and gets criticals SIX times more often. He also hits way way more often.
More hits, more crits, more damage - this guy blows you away at damage output.
He would be wearing +3 Full Plate (AC +12, +15 counting DEX) with your amulet and a ring of protection instead of your wand, he has way better AC than you, 28, all the time (he doesn't have to use a charge from the wand, so if he is surprised, he has his full 28 AC, or 25 flatfooted). Note, this fighter flat-footed has more AC than you do without burning a point of ki.
He can't use KI though, but he has a slew of interesting feats, like Cleave, Greater Weapon Focus, Improve Critical, Two-Weapon Defense, etc. Hard to say which is better.
You're better at grappling though. And you move faster.
All things considered, if your DM has trouble with your monk, then he would have trouble with this fighter, too. Probably even more trouble (although maybe he would just mind-control him every fight).
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Is he running with standard CR encounters? With the initial build at 36 points, the standard CR is pretty well pooched. I don't see an issue with the magic kits (assuming the other players are decked out as well) as long as your opponents have that same level of access to magic.
EDIT: DM_Blake makes a good point with the HP issue. Are the other players running with exceptionally high HP as well? And on the flip side of the coin, what about your opponents?
I'm really confused why he is having trouble creating encounters which challenge the entire party, unless he is setting up head-to-head melee encounter after melee encounter. A ranged combat would be rougher on you but would allow the ranged ranger and spellcasters to have more of an advantage than you would have.
36 point buy is sooooo beyond heroic. I'd consider something like 20 point buy, a high fantasy campaign to be "heroic" for me.
You are getting buffed by the other party members then, we can assume. You've got a very solid group build.
One of the better ideas for DM's Paizo came up with was putting better limits on the kinds of magic items you can buy at any given down. You've got more then enough casters to probably have access to them crafting but then that's still time and money.
The only buff that I get from the party is the mage armor which i paid for via my magic wand.
At Dmblake:
Point one: the casters have super good important stats
Point two: Sorry i did my math wrong my health is at 84 at lvl 9. I added my last roll twice as I looked at my character this night. I did roll well and I roll infront of the dm.
Point 3:I told my dm that dr screws my character. He said it screws the animal companions of the druid and ranger aswell. And the dm just mind controlled my old fighter almost every session and he hit harder then the monk. After a while I dropped that character cause I was tired of not playing my character.
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Just curious, but does your party roleplay the low stats (your monk has Int 8 and Cha 7)?
It appears your group, from the information you have provided and what I have seen from your stats, may power game? Basically, it appears you have gone for the best build to succeed in combat, but I am wondering how you actually play your monk outside of combat?
Most of the problems I have encountered in games, as a GM and a player, usually comes from a player who believes that their character is not succeeding in combat. This trend tends to come from players who have put their entire build into making their character a martial god and not much else.
In this case, your GM should set the rules from the beginning and stick with it. It makes the game unnecessarily difficult if the GM throws rules out and institues new ones. It appears your GM is unable to deal with your character and so he appears unable to resolve the problem without changing the rules.
This is similar to the issue with alignment, when the GM and a player have different views of what the ethics of an alignment are for roleplaying. The GM and player should discuss any potential conflict, agree on a ruling and stick with it.
Have you tried to discuss the issue with your GM? Ask him to agree to rules, write them down and stick to them. However, I would also ask for a chance to modify my character to the new rules.
Our group is lucky enough to have GM who will be straight with the rules, discuss it with the player(s) and stick to the ruling. However, we are also fortunate to emphasise roleplaying over combat, so we rarely have issues with encounters.
Anyway, I wish you luck!
Just curious, but does your party roleplay the low stats (your monk has Int 8 and Cha 7)?
It appears your group, from the information you have provided and what I have seen from your stats, may power game? Basically, it appears you have gone for the best build to succeed in combat, but I am wondering how you actually play your monk outside of combat?
Most of the problems I have encountered in games, as a GM and a player, usually comes from a player who believes that their character is not succeeding in combat. This trend tends to come from players who have put their entire build into making their character a martial god and not much else.
In this case, your GM should set the rules from the beginning and stick with it. It makes the game unnecessarily difficult if the GM throws rules out and institues new ones. It appears your GM is unable to deal with your character and so he appears unable to resolve the problem without changing the rules.
This is similar to the issue with alignment, when the GM and a player have different views of what the ethics of an alignment are for roleplaying. The GM and player should discuss any potential conflict, agree on a ruling and stick with it.
Have you tried to discuss the issue with your GM? Ask him to agree to rules, write them down and stick to them. However, I would also ask for a chance to modify my character to the new rules.
Our group is lucky enough to have GM who will be straight with the rules, discuss it with the player(s) and stick to the ruling. However, we are also fortunate to emphasise roleplaying over combat, so we rarely have issues with encounters.
Anyway, I wish you luck!
My guy is a fool who doesn't know very much with regards to the world. He tends to keep his mouth shut when dealing with npc's and sometimes gives some suggestions with regards to certain situations and he is always willing to ask those around him with regards to the world - ei hey what's that? or can you tell me this?. He is ussually shy around the npc's and pc's to that matter. He can tell when people are screwing with him and is a good judge of character. He used to sail and he owned a dojo in the past. He is LN as he doesn't favour good or evil/although he tries to be a good person and follow the law when can although not like a paladin where he will sacrifice himself for a cause.
The DM's issue is purely combat and how his guys are not good at dealing with me cause of good saves good touch and good ac. And he thinks I do too much damage aswell and have too many attacks (4+ ki point).
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Sounds like he needs to be a bit more creative and learn more about how to vary his encounters. Playing to the characters weaknesses, outside opting for TPK, is the best way. He could really play on your lower stats for one.
You could ask your GM to look at the character side-by-side or to be more clear on his expectations during character creation. It makes it a lot easier for the entire group to spend a session with the GM creating the characters.
If the GM has more of a say at the beginning at the campaign, seeing how you are setting down the character then he has less of a reason to complain later. There should be no surprises then and you can start to set down some of the house-rulings for the campaign.
I would try to discuss combat and the issues with the GM. It will make it easier if you have a chat and try to work it out. Outside that, having a disgruntled player at the table can be bad for everyone - not just the GM.
Outside having a discussion with him, I cannot see how you can settle this any other way. Sorry, not much help.
It is very hard to jump to conclusions hearing one side of this, there definately are some issues and nerfing a character like this is certainly unfair. That said, 36 point buy is definately going to favor a monk, he needs alot of stats to be played well and seems a bit too much even for a heroic campaign.
* Your hp while high dont seem too much.
9(lvl) x 4 (con 2, toughness 1, favored class 1) = 36
36 + 8 (1st lvl) = 44, leaving 50 hp to be rolled on 8d8, 6.25 on average.
I personally dont have an issue with houseruling, it is part of the game, but the DM in this case takes it a bit too far and should allow for character modification at least.
I am inclined to say your problem is a DM being annoyed with a shallow character bred for combat, I'd advise you to give your character some color and depth first and build your character with some background and interesting character traits (personality), few DM's that enjoy RP don't appreciate players putting in a little effort.
Avoid out of character motivation, really buying a wand of mage armor smells like stinky cheese.. your monk is pretty clueless about magic, could have at least put a few ranks in use magic device, spell craft or even knowledge arcana.
I'd ask your DM to give his opinion on the matter, there are alot of experienced players and DM's on this board, willing to help and give advice to either of you.
Sounds like the GM realized he was too generous with his character creation rules, and rather than admit that he screwed up, he's trying to "punish" you for his mistake by nerfing your class abilities. Or attack your monk with any kind of sensible tactics and force you to regroup and try something different. Which is just stupid, frankly.
1. Talk to the players about this. How do they feel about the GM and your character? Is the GM ragging on anyone else? Get ideas from them, and if others feel like he is being unfair, sit down with them and him--NOT in a gang up way, it just helps in situations like this not to be the only person who presents an idea--and calmly, diplomatically express the frustrations you expressed here.
2. Suggest any or all of the following
- "I've realized PCs really aren't supposed to operate at this high a point buy. I really like my character, and I think the stats are the bigger issue than my class abilities. Can we....
--- "Get rid of all stat boost items?" (You don't need them at 36 point buy)
--- "Recreate our characters using 20 or 25 point buy?" (Don't ask to get rid of stat boost items in this case)
- Remind your GM your character is probably at a weakness against ranged volleys. While monks have good saves, there are spells that can be used against him as well. Just because you and your party is good at melee doesn't mean there aren't other, EASY ways of challenging your party. (If, however, your GM takes this as an invitation to clobber all of you with a meteor swarm, it's definitely time to leave.) (There's a character in my party who has an insanely high AC. His Will saves, however.... do I hit him with Will saves all the time? No. But I do mix in challenges that I know will make things harder for him and let the other characters, with lower ACs and better saves, shine on occasion).
3. If the GM stands firm or insists it's your character that's the problem--and I think I can guess fairly that it's really not--do what everyone else said. Ditch him. He doesn't know what the hell he's doing, and he's taking his incompetence out on you. I really would leave this as a last resort--all GMs were usually bad, inexperienced GMs once upon a time. It's definitely worth talking to him about this and giving feedback, but if he's just going to be an asshat about the whole thing, get out. Offer to run yourself, find another GM. If he's just going to use you to fill out a vendetta against a fictional construct, that's not the kind of guy you can trust to be fair, let alone tell a story that will be fun for all.
From what you told us it seems clear that the GM has a problem with you min/maxing a 36-point build char (I would so too but then I would have imposed a rule saying "no stat below 12" if I wanted super godlike epic stats).
The other players chars are obviously not min/maxed in the slightest. Else I can't imaging why you are not being outperformed by the Druid! A well played Druid with these stats could be a monster. 18 Str, 18 Wis, high con ftw with super versatility and a damage output that should completely overshadow your own!
Also the Ranger should do more damage faster from a save distance.
So I would propose to change the stats and lessen the min/maxing. Get an all-round good guy, with no stat below 12. This would probably keep you in line with the other players, who seemingly have created/are playing underwhelming chars.
It could also be that you have to "hold back" a bit during play if you are really outperforming everyone else at the table. If thats not your thing, you probably do not fit in with the party.
And the dm just mind controlled my old fighter almost every session and he hit harder then the monk. After a while I dropped that character cause I was tired of not playing my character.
This is actually what would make me consider leaving the game. A DM shouldn't use the same tactics every session, especially when those tactics leave one player without anything to do.
... One of the better ideas for DM's Paizo came up with was putting better limits on the kinds of magic items you can buy at any given down. ...
What limits are those you are thinking of?
One the DM's that I play with, is going to "downgrade" my monk.
Yeah, those monks are overpowered combat monsters.
Oh, wait, that was everyone except monk ;-P
He feels that my monk is over powered and that he can't challenge me
Bwahahahahahaha!
ROFL!
Oh, wait, you're serious.
Tell him he's fired. If he cannot challenge a monk, he's out. We want his GM license by this time tomorrow.
He gave the players a 36 points to make their characters.
Error one, especially if he doesn't do some serious stuff to the encounter levels, like downgrade them by 2 or something.
I usually run 25 purchase characters, and that is already quite a bit. I prefer it that way because character builds involving many stats become easier to pull off, but I know that I have to adjust.
But 36? Come on! What's next? Everyone plays solars without any adjustment? (Okay, slight exaggeration, but only slight)
Note that the monk relies heavily on many ability scores, so if you allow a very generous character creation method, classes like that will benefit most.
I use mage armor with the help of the wizard (I have a wand of mage armor) Ac= 23 + Mage armor (27) and when I feel the need + ki point (31) at level 9.
Not much, really. The monk I play right now has AC 27 all the time. He's level 10, but it was the same a level ago, and it's epic (25) purchase.
My cmd is 33 and higher when they try to grapple/trip.
Loser. ;-p
My monk's 38 (40 against grapple/trip) thanks to the power Defensive Manoeuvre Training.
Of course, smart enemies will not choose a monk as their target for combat manoeuvres.
Well the dm feels that I'm too good
Your GM is a moron. He gave you 36 points to purchase stuff for crying out loud! That will result in very competent characters.
so he decided make me flurry of my dex (+3 instead of + 7) so that I am now at 11 11 6 6 (lvl 9) when I melee flurry.
There are several things wrong with this:
So +20 against +14 is already a big difference, by further lowering that, he might as well come out and say "you cannot attack".
And on top of that he is removing my wisdom to my cmd. When I asked him if I could modify my stats so that I could have more dex instead of str in order to hit more he said no.
This is after he ruled that haste doesn't stack with my flurry (questionable). and that weapon focus: unarmed strike does not add to my cmb (against the rules).
I then asked if I could play another class like a paladin; he said I can't for the reason that I as a person cant play LG characters.
And the verdict is in: Based on what you said here: He's weapon's grade a%~!*!+. Maybe just behind the screen, maybe all over.
The solution is simple: Avoid the places he's an a!~*!@%. If he's just a bad GM, quit the group and never join anything he runs again.
Now he said that im' the only one who powered gamed
You can't not power-game with 36 purchase
I'm not sure wheather I should stay in the game; or just kill my character via doing stupid things as I do not find this game very enjoyable anymore or just roll with punches until I get more fed up.
Quit. Now. You can choose to go now. Let it fester a bit and you will take the game life (i.e. attack the other players and GM with a sword and shout "SEE IF YOU CAN NERF ME NOW!")
He just gets annoyed cause I don't take too much damage
That's the monk. Monks avoid damage. They're not as good at dishing it out as fighters (unless the monk's player is really good and the fighter's player is really bad).
We were all surprised with 36 points. He said he wanted heroic characters.
When, apparently, he didn't.
He said he was annoyed with my low charisma. I told him I don't use it ever as none of my skills have charisma. And my intelligence is enough for me to get what I need.
That's what you get when you have standard purchase: People will min-max, especially if they have MAD characters.
If you don't want that, get rid of the option that you can decrease attributes below 10. Would make sense with 36 points for purchase.
If you don't do stuff like that, the only person you can complain about is yourself.
Ok Hold on, he gave a 36 point buy? Is this the pathfinder system or the old 3.5 one? I mean seriously, 36? Not to beat a dead horse or anything but who gives 36 points and then wants to nerf a charater? And the monk of all things? I guess the insane point buy helps it out alot with some of its limitations but still, its one of the weaker classes in the game.
Like some others have said the bigger issue I have is that your fighter was constantly mind controlled. If this happened more then a few times a campaign i'd probably walk out on a game, let alone if it happened with any kind of regularity.
It sounds to me like you have yourself a case of douchebagdmitis. He might be a great guy, maybe a good friend, but he clearly doesnt know squat about dming. Take 3 cups of find another table to play at and call me in the morning.
You guys might be a bit hard on the DM hehe, sure he might be a rookie DM but give him a chance to get better.
Give the guy honest feedback, try discuss things in a civil manner.
You might want to suggest a different way of point buy.
start scores at 10
30 point buy to increase stats
10 to 14 = 1 point
14 to 16 = 2 points
16 to 18 = 3 points
so characters will be free to play any class they want with satisfactory scores and balances out quite well.
You will not come close to the abilities you have now though, which is prolly a good thing.
you got 1 ability point too many by the way and as far as I know weapon focus is not meant to stack with CMB in any case.
Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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Really, all of this would be solved if your DM buffed his monsters to match the party's buffs. That way, it's "super" characters against "super" monsters/adversaries.
As a DM, I allow for high ability score characters (we roll - 5d6, drop 2 lowest. If you don't roll an 18, drop your lowest score and it becomes an 18), so I can identify with your DM's desire to allow heroic characters. However, if a DM is going to allow that, he has to be prepared to account for these higher ability scored during each game session. As such, I tweak my encounters to account for these high scores.
It's all about preparation, and it sounds like your DM is not willing (or able? Not sure of his experience level) to prepare properly for your character's (and probably the other party members) talents.
As for your LG ban, I have the same ban on a player in my group, mostly because all of his characters tend to become Chaotic Neutral during game play, regardless of the alignment on his character sheet. He is allowed to be Neutral or Chaotic, but never Lawful (or evil, but we ban evil characters from our campaigns). Not sure if something similar applies to you (from your DM's perspective), but thought I'd bring it up. Sometimes, alignment bans for specific players are warranted...
You guys might be a bit hard on the DM hehe, sure he might be a rookie DM but give him a chance to get better.
Give the guy honest feedback, try discuss things in a civil manner.
If the dm said hey I made a mistake could you remake your character so it fits in better with the campaign, or make a new character. Absolutely give him feedback, talk things out.
But if you suddenly flipflop rules, ignore rules, and make nonsense rulings in order to nerf one specific player, and not let him adjust his character in response. rather then admit your own mistakes no amount of feedback is going to help. You my friend (and i dont mean YOU remco, i mean the hypothetical you that is the dm in this case) are a douche. Please turn in your dice and see the lady at the door about your coat.
Also the repeated mind control of the OP's first character sets off major douchebag alarms. This so called dm clearly has control issues, and needs to have a long time out with himself to decide what he is actually trying to accomplish at his table.
Sorry, but from what we're being told, this DM is already a fruitcake. Paladins aren't allowed because "nobody can role-play LG". Um. Huh.
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In fairness to your DM it sounds like he gave everyone high point buy expecting everyone to make strong stats all around and then you instead dumped any non-relevant stat to boost your good stats, which is why he says you powergamed your character. It's his fault for doing a stupid high point buy and not setting a min stat limit of like 12-14 since it seems that's what he was going for.
Ask him if instead of doing class nerfs you can take some points from your str and your wis and boost your int and cha. That way you're working with him instead of trying to take points from str and boost dex instead which in his mind is just equally powergamed. You aren't in the wrong here, but you should be willing to accept some weakening so that he as DM doesn't have to wrack his brain or nerf you to challenge the party.
I can't stress enough that he made the mistake, but that if you don't want wierd non-sensical rules nerfs or to leave the game then the best solution is to accept some weakening, but at the same time this will also boost your weaker stats so it's not like his nerfs to the rules where you loose out without gaining anything.
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STR 24 with +2 strenght item
Dex 16
con 14
Int 8
Wis 18 with + 2 wisdom item
cha 7
See if you offer to go with
Str 20 with +2 str item
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 17 with +2 Str item
Cha 10
Yes you'll take a hit to your AC and attacks, but you'll still be a strong character and your DM won't have to do arbitrary things like his silly nerfs to your flurry etc.
I didn't use point buy for this, I just took 5 ones from your highest stats and moved them to your lowest. I don't know if this is 36 points, but gives you the idea of the compromise. Offer to rework your point buy so that you don't have dump stats, and your highest stats are lower instead of just doing what he was obviously trying to prevent by gaming yourself into dump stats (even if you never use charisma the compromise is to at least have it be average.)
I would try to talk to the DM, but I would have one foot out the door as I did.
The mind control thing was already very annoying. Next he will make every fight in an anti-magic zone because you play a wizard...
I would try to talk to the DM, but I would have one foot out the door as I did.
The mind control thing was already very annoying. Next he will make every fight in an anti-magic zone because you play a wizard...
Agreed. Once you get into an Arms Race with your DM, the game is over.
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Sorry, but from what we're being told, this DM is already a fruitcake. Paladins aren't allowed because "nobody can role-play LG". Um. Huh.
He didn't say that, he said the specific player can't. The DM probably has a very black and white view on morality, and the player probably has a reletavistic view. I find that when that happens the B&W person thinks the R person can't play certain alignments properly.
These are usually the same people who ban certain alignments at the start of the game (the other type being people who have seen games fall apart because of a douchebag player using alignment as an excuse). And from what I've heard of this DM I'd be willing to bet I'm right. That doesn't make him less of an Asshat for saying that to the player though.
We were all surprised with 36 points. He said he wanted heroic characters.
Heroic characters? 15-pt buy will get you heroic characters. 25-pt buy will get you epic characters. 36-pt buy gets you off the charts God Mode characters.
These are usually the same people who ban certain alignments at the start of the game (the other type being people who have seen games fall apart because of a douchebag player using alignment as an excuse).
*Cough*ChaoticNeutral*Cough*
Anyone else think they still use the 3.5 point buy system? I mean its the only thing that makes that even remotely make sense.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and guess that this is more of a personality conflict between a passive GM, and a player who could use a little more sense motive in real life.
36 Point buy, and you make a slow witted social reject? That would piss me off as a GM - which is why I say up front, no mental scores below 10. I'm guessing your GM feels the same, but is failing to express it when and how he should.
EDIT: I would also question borrowing money to buy yourself Monk Robes. It isn't a big deal, and I didn't check your wealth by level, but some GM's would frown on going in to debt to buy just the right item from the MagicMart catalog.
I'm also guessing the GM is new to the martial classes actually being powerful at mid to high levels. It took be a little while to get used to fighter types doing 40-80 damage per round, but it isn't game breaking, just different.
I would also guess that the GM isn't used to monks as PCs, and is probably relying on casters to challenge the party (because melee classes used to suck). But the monk is designed to be almost mage proof,- awesome saves (with improved evasion), best touch AC in the game, immunities, and all of the movement tricks make you almost spell proof.
I think your GM needs to be more open about what he expects from the game, and you need to really listen, and read between the lines.
I would go with lastnightleft's redesigned point-buy, and see if you can get your GM to remove the rule changes. Also, a few combats against giants, or other high HP, high damage type monsters, and everyone will realize that the monk doesn't need any nerfing.
Anyone else think they still use the 3.5 point buy system? I mean its the only thing that makes that even remotely make sense.He has two 16 and a 22 before stat boosting items, no I don't think he's using 3.5 point buy.
Yep you are right, my assumption here is that stregth started as an 18 got +2 racial and +1 at 4 and 8
18
16
14
8
16
7
Cost:
17
10
5
-2
10
-4
adds up to 36...its that pathfinder system all right.
He feels that my monk is over powered
O_o
Truly, I have not the words.