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Hey guys--I am a recent Pathfinder convert, I played a few games at a local shop and I think it's amazing, yadda yadda. I am considering porting my 4E game over to Pathfinder, but our defender LOOOOVES his warden, I assume we can build it with some thought, have any of you tried a Warden conversion, or has anyone run into any problems (the shapechanges and corresponding spells don't seem like they would be too overpowered, but I am new to Pathfinder, not sure).
Thanks for any info or tips!
-d
You're not alone. My group is trying to convert the Warden, but honestly to convert any 4th edition class back you lose anything real "specific" about the class and you end up just trying to keep the "spirit". I'll give my friend who was converting it this page's address and ask him how it was going, but the last I heard was:
D12 hit Die
Full Attack
Good Fort
Poor Reflex
Poor Will (I Think)
Proficiency with all simple and martial weapons
Proficiency with all nonmetallic armors (Light, Medium, Heavy) and shields (Including Tower - remember, it's wood!)
1 -
2 - Natures Armament - Add Constitution Bonus to AC (instead of dexterity) but as a Natual Armor bonus.
3 - ...
As you can see we didn't get far. There was various talk of:
- 6 levels of Wisdom-based spontaneous casting drawn from the Druid and Ranger lists.
- A lesser wildshape ability much like the PHB2 druid or a lycanthrope.
- A special ability that would allow them to use Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp, Rusting Grasp, Chill Touch, (Warp Wood, Heat Metal?)and others like them as special touch attacks or channeled through his weapon with scaling damage or effects as he gains levels.
We were going to look to the PHB2 knight and the druid for inspiration. Looking back, it was just kinda a bull session with us all throwing ideas out there, we should have had paper with us. If it ever becomes a reality I'll come back and post it here.
Had you started with discussing what you think is the "spirit" of warden class? To prevent further misunderstanding and divergence of ideas.
Something along the lines of ultimate survivor and defender drawing his strength from nature.
Some additional thoughts:
Bonus to ACI think that if you gonna give him natural armor bonus do not cut his Dex bonus to AC. Either allow him to replace Dex with another ability to calculate "Dexterity bonus to AC" or you allow him natural armor bonus in addition to Dex bonus (probably not Constitution bonus). Otherwise you will kill his touch AC. Maybe grant him natural bonus to AC that increses as his level increase (maybe using Monk's AC prgression).
Spells: Six levels of spells would be too much if he is also figting machine, maybe 4 along the lines of ranger/palain, but I think that even that might be too much.
"Spirit Aspects": special ability to gain aspects of various nature spirits instead of wild shape. Either limited number of uses per day, limited total number of rounds per day (like PF Barbarian Rage/Bard songs) or a limited number of aspects known between which character may switch (maybe with a move action) granting bonuses based on aspect selected.
I would also think of some ability to remove conditions from oneself.
My search-fu got me to this thread. I too was looking for a Warden conversion. There were some good ideas tossed here. I have to agree with the others. I don't think a direct translation of the Warden will work. It has too many 4th edition mechanics embedded in its execution. I just tried to keep the spirit of the class.
So, through the magic of thread-o-mancy, I present the Warden v0.9 initial draft.
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New Class: Warden
[Adapated from D&D 4th Edition]
Role: If Paladins are religious warriors for the Light. Then Wardens are primal warriors of the Green. Using primal spells coupled with armor and shields, Wardens can be defensive front line warriors with their guardian form coupled with a weapon and shield. Going, the opposite route, Wardens armed with large two handed weapons and using spell and magical abilities can deal potent amounts of damage. Either way, they bring the utility of primal magic with them as well.
BAB: Full
Fort: Good
Ref: Poor
Will: Poor
Spells: 4th level as a ranger
Level Special
1st Strength of Stone
2nd Guardian Form (1/day)
3rd Bonus Feat
4th Guardian Form (2/day)
5th Spellstrike, Bonus spells
6th Guardian Form (3/day), Guardian Forms
7th Bonus Feat
8th Guardian Form (4/day), Bonus Spells, Dual Aspects
9th
10th Guardian Form (5/day), Guardian Forms
11th Bonus Feat, Bonus Spells
12th Guardian Form (6/day), Triple Aspects
13th
14th Guardian Form (7/day), Bonus Spells
15th Bonus Feat
16th Guardian Form (8/day), Quadruple Aspects
17th
18th Guardian Form (9/day)
19th Bonus Feat
20th Guardian Form (at will)
Alignment: Any
Hit Dice: d10
Class Skills: Bluff, Climb, Craft, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (dungeoneering) , Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (nature), Perception, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Survival, Swim, and Use Magical Device.
Skill Ranks per Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Wardens are proficient with the all simple weapons as well as martial axes, martial maces, martial flails, martial hammers and martial spears. They are also proficient with all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth) of any form they assume with guardian form (see below).
Wardens are proficient with light and medium armor but are prohibited from wearing metal armor; thus, they may wear only padded, leather, or hide armor. A warden may also wear wooden armor that has been altered by the ironwood spell so that it functions as though it were steel. Wardens are proficient with shields (except tower shields).
A warden who wears prohibited armor or uses a prohibited shield is unable to cast warden spells or use any of her supernatural or spell-like class abilities while doing so and for 24 hours thereafter.
Strength of Stone: At 1st level, as a swift action, the Warden may invoke the strength of stone which grants temporary hit points equal to the Wardens level. These hit points last for 1 minute or until used. The Warden may use this power a number of times per day equal to her Wisdom modifier.
Guardian Form (Su): At 2nd level, a warden gains the ability to turn herself into a guardian form and back again once per day. The effect lasts for 1 hour per warden level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to guardian or back) is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. High level Wardens may take on multiple guardian forms simultaneously and do so as a single standard action.
Unlike a druid's wildshape form, a warden does not lose her ability to speak while in guardian form because she takes a partially transformed shape. For example, If the Warden takes on a plant guardian form she shape shifts into a kind of tree person that might resemble a treant to the untrained eye. But, she can still speak and cast spells normally. Unless otherwise noted in an aspect's description, a warden who assumes an aspect of nature retains her own type and subtype(s), keeps her extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like abilities, and retains her ability to communicate and cast spells. She is considered proficient with any natural attacks granted by the aspect.
A warden can use this ability an additional time per day at 4th level and every two levels thereafter, for a total of nine times at 18th level. At 20th level, a warden can use guardian form at will.
At warden may take on one aspect from those described below. At 8th level, the warden can take on up to two aspects simultaneously. At 12th level, she can take on up to three aspects simultaneously, and at 16th level the limit increases to its maximum of four simultaneous aspects. (Some aspects can only be combined with certain other aspects, as indicated in their descriptions.) Each aspect taken on counts as one daily use of the warden's guardian form ability. Multiple versions of the same aspect do not stack.
If taking on multiple aspects simultaneously, the warden takes on an appearance that is a mixture of aspects. For example, if a Warden takes on Elemental Fire and Vigor at the same time, then the warden would appear as a flaming animal like humanoid. If the appearances of the forms seem to contradict the overall appearance of the warden, it is dominated by highest level aspect taken. For example, the plant form appearance would dominiate the ursine appearance.
Some aspects, as noted in their descriptions, have a minimum warden level as a prerequisite.
A warden may take on one aspect per day for every daily use of guardian form she is entitled to. For instance, a 4th-level warden could normally use guardian form twice per day but is limited to only one simultaneously aspect. A 10th-level warden could take on five aspects per day and can choose to take on two aspects simultaneously (which would use up two of the warden's daily uses).
The following guardian forms requires Warden 2nd level
Aquatic - The warden grows gills and takes on a fish-like humanoid appearance. This enables her to breathe underwater (while retaining her ability to breathe air). Webbing between her fingers and her toes grants her a swim speed of 40 feet (or 30 feet if wearing medium or heavy armor or carrying a medium or heavy load) and a +8 bonus on her Swim checks.
Scent - The warden takes on a jackal-life or wolf-like humanoid appearance and gains the scent ability.
Speed - The warden takes on a panther-like humanoid appearance and gains a +30-foot enhancement bonus to her base land speed.
Tooth and Claw - The warden takes on a animal-like humanoid appearance and gains a primary bite attack and two secondary claw attacks. The bite attack deals bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage equal to a short sword of the warden's size (1d6 for a Medium warden, or 1d4 for a Small warden), while the claws deal piercing and slashing damage equal to a dagger of the warden's size (1d4 for a Medium warden, or 1d3 for a Small warden).
Ursine - The warden takes on a bear-like humanoid appearance and gains a +2 size bonus to Strength and Constitution.
The following guardian forms requires Warden 6th level
Vigor - The warden takes on an humanoid animal like appearance and gains a +4 temporary bonus to Strength.
Agility - The warden takes on an humanoid animal like appearance and gains a +4 temporary bonus to Dexterity.
Poison - The warden takes on a lizard or snake like humanoid appearance and gains a bite attack that deals bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage equal to a dagger of the warden's size (1d4 for a Medium warden, or 1d3 for a Small warden). In addition, the bite delivers a toxic venom (Fortitude save DC 10 + 1/2 warden's level + warden's Con modifier; initial and secondary damage 1d6 Con).
Plant - The warden's body becomes plantlike. While in this form, the warden gains a +10 bonus on Hide checks made in areas of forest, overgrowth, or similar terrain. She gains immunity to poison, sleep, paralysis, and stunning. She gains a slam attack that deals bludgeoning damage equal to a light mace of the warden's size (1d6 for Medium wardens, 1d4 for Small wardens). Her natural armor bonus becomes 4 (replacing any other natural armor bonus the warden has, though enhancement bonuses to natural armor still apply normally). She can't combine this aspect with any other aspects except for vigor and endurance.
Flight - The warden grows wings (feathery or batlike, at her option) that enable her to fly at a speed of 40 feet with average maneuverability (or 30 feet if wearing medium or heavy armor or carrying a medium or heavy load).
Endurance - The warden takes on an humanoid animal like appearance and gains a +4 temporary bonus to Constitution.
The following guardian forms requires Warden 10th level
Elemental Air - The wardens body becomes gaseous (as the gaseous form spell, except that she can fly at a speed of 100 feet with perfect maneuverability and doesn't lose her supernatural abilities while in this form). While in this form, the warden has immunity to poison, sleep, paralysis, and stunning, as well as any other immunities provided by the gaseous form spell. The warden cannot cast spells while this aspect is in effect. She can't combine this aspect with any other aspect except for agility and endurance.
Elemental Earth - The warden's body becomes stony and rocklike. While in this form, the warden has immunity to poison, sleep, paralysis, and stunning. She gains a slam attack that deals bludgeoning damage equal to a morningstar of the warden's size (1d8 for Medium wardens, 1d6 for Small wardens). Her natural armor bonus becomes +8 (replacing any other natural armor bonus the warden has, though enhancement bonuses to natural armor still apply normally). She also gains damage reduction 10/magic. The warden cannot cast spells while this aspect is in effect. She can't combine this aspect with any other aspect except for endurance and vigor.
Elemental Fire - The warden's body bursts into flame. While in this form, the warden has immunity to fire, poison, sleep, paralysis, and stunning. In addition, any creature struck by the warden in melee (whether with a weapon, unarmed attack, or natural weapon) takes an extra 1d6 points of fire damage and must succeed on a Reflex save or catch fire for 1d4 rounds. The save DC is 10 + 1/2 warden level + warden's Con modifier. Creatures hitting the warden with natural weapons or unarmed attacks while this aspect is in effect take 1d6 points of fire damage and also catch fire unless they succeed on the Reflex save noted above. The warden also gains damage reduction 10/magic. The warden cannot cast spells while this aspect is in effect. She can't combine this aspect with any other aspect except for agility and endurance.
Elemental Water - The warden's body becomes semi-fluid. While in this form, the warden gains a +10 bonus on Escape Artist checks, resistance to fire 10, and immunity to poison, steep, paralysis, and stunning. She gains a swim speed of 90 feet and a +8 bonus on her Swim checks. Her touch puts out torches, campfires, exposed lanterns, and other open flames of non-magical origin if these are Large or smaller. The warden can dispel magical fire she touches as if she had cast greater dispel magic on it. She also gains damage reduction 10/magic. The warden cannot cast spells while this aspect is in effect. She can't combine this aspect with any other aspect except for endurance and vigor.
Bonus Feat: At 3rd level and every 4 levels afterwards, the warden receives a bonus combat or teamwork feat in addition to her normal feats. She must meet all the prerequisites to take this feat.
Spells: At 4th level, a warden can cast divine spells drawn from the ranger spell list as a ranger of equal level. Her alignment may restrict her from casting certain spells opposed to her moral or ethical beliefs; see Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells. A warden must choose and prepare her spells in advance.
To prepare or cast a spell, the warden must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a warden's spell is 10 + the spell level + the warden's Wisdom modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a warden can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Warden. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).
A warden must spend 1 hour each day in a trance-like meditation on the mysteries of nature to regain her daily allotment of spells. A warden may prepare and cast any spell on the warden spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation.
Spellstrike (Su): At 5th level, whenever a warden casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the warden spell list, she can deliver the spell through any weapon she is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a warden can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the warden makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
Bonus Spells: The warden receives access to a handful of sorcerer/wizard spells in additional to her normal selection of spells. All wardens know these spells in addition to their normal spells known. These spells can be used in conjunction with spellstrike.
5th level - Wardens gain shocking grasp and chill touch as bonus 1st level spells
8th level - Wardens gain frigid touch and flame blade as bonus 2nd level spells
11th level - Wardens gain force punch and vampiric touch as bonus 3rd level spells.
14th level - Wardens gain bloody claws and rusting grasp as bonus 4th level spells
Warden Spell List
Wardens cast spells from the ranger spell list and a selection of spells gained through the bonus spells class feature.
Design notes:
I took some design inspiration from both Douglas Mawhimmy and Drejk above. But, I realise the Warden cannot be translated directly from D&D 4th edition. The mechanics of the game engine are deeply rooted in the classes' design. However I tried to keep the spirit of the class. As it turns out, Wild shape Aspects from Unearthed Arcana was a good starting place. I took that idea and compared it to a barbarian's rage and morphed it into the above version. The Strength of Stone ability is intended to conpensate partially for the restriction of medium armor vs. heavy armor. And the high strength bonuses and spell strike ability is intended to be an alternate way to do combat damage (since the warden cannot qualify for fighter feats like weapon specailization). Again, trying to get the spirit of the Warden.
Guardian form isn't bad. My thought was to make it like rage, with a duration of rounds, good defensive bonuses, and qualities like you yours.
Since Pathfinder is short on classes that do anything like a defender's mark, the simplest conversion would be to replace the character with a Pathfinder Barbarian. Look through the archetypes for one that favors a sword and board combat style and rage powers that tend more towards supernatural transformations than actually going berserk.