Hi
A player in a campaign I'm also in asked the DM tonight if he could not choose his 1st level feat at first level, but take it at second level, where he had the requirements for it. (Weapon Focus, he doesn't have BAB +1)
Now, I think I know how it is meant to be, namely that you have to have the prerequisites when you gain the feat, but he's the type that argues that if it isn't in the rules, his understanding is as valid. I couldn't find it anywhere, but hopefully someone could help with an answer.
He can't "save feats" or anything for that matter.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying as well, but he wants to know where the rules state this :)
Thanks though :)
There is somewhere where it states this. But I don't remember where and don't have the book with me, the same goes for skill points and such. He is trying to bend the rules of comon knowledge. It's your DM's prerogative to just say, NO. And he should use it.
|
There was a huge thread about this very issue not long ago.
Look towards the part of the book that describes leveling up. One of the steps is selecting and applying any new feat(s). Following the rules to the letter, you must complete this step before moving onto the next step.
This means that if a player refuses to select a feat when he earns one, he is stuck part way between levels.
Think about it this way - look at all the critical hit based feats, with prerequisites of having a certain BAB. A rogue gets 10 feats over 20 levels. Do you think it would be okay to allow the rogue to delay picking ALL of his feats until 20th level, so that he could take 8 critical feats all at once?
Under the normal rules, the rogue would only be able to take 6 of those feats at most.
Yep, I remember that thread and posted some in it as well. The general consensus was that that everything listed for making a 1st level character must be chosen before the character can be played, and that characters being created beyond 1st level must have everything spent at the correct levels before they can be played. However when playing a character up from 1st level, once you get beyond 1st level things could be delayed, for example saying you have to find someone to train the pc in a particular feat or skill, and the pc happens to level up again before that happens. But in the end, it really is all up to the GM as to how character creation and leveling up is done.
I thought about linking to it, but maybe 3/4 of the thread was just a few people flaming back and forth, so read beyond the first page at your own risk. ;)
Yep, I remember that thread and posted some in it as well. The general consensus was that that everything listed for making a 1st level character must be chosen before the character can be played, and that characters being created beyond 1st level must have everything spent at the correct levels before they can be played. However when playing a character up from 1st level, once you get beyond 1st level things could be delayed, for example saying you have to find someone to train the pc in a particular feat or skill, and the pc happens to level up again before that happens. But in the end, it really is all up to the GM as to how character creation and leveling up is done.
Having participated in this thread I don't recall that being the consensus at all. The issue was quickly (for this board) set to rest, but some argued the language was ambiguous for non-native speakers.
Per RAW: No
Zo (Registered English Language Elitist)
His Argument is not complete honest.When it dont't say it is not allowed is more a lack of other argumentns(not always be true) You can Repley with: the book don't say you can either.
You are the boss! I look always how a character is building his character. Is it pure fun use then i will problaly allow it. When the player tend to be a powerplayer and trick/bend his character often. my answeris No!, No! No! Whatever you say: i don't care!
I found something what Triamoden said in a previous post to make it easy. So i qoting him:
When adding new levels of an existing class or adding levels of a new class (see Multiclassing, below), make sure to take the following steps in order. First, select your new class level. You must be able to qualify for this level before any of the following adjustments are made. Second, apply any ability score increases due to gaining a level. Third, integrate all of the level's class abilities and then roll for additional hit points. Finally, add new skills and feats. For more information on when you gain new feats and ability score increases, see Table: Character Advancement and Level-Dependent Bonuses.
You get a feat at the level the chart says. Not at any other level.
I found something what Triamoden said in a previous post to make it easy. So i qoting him:
When adding new levels of an existing class or adding levels of a new class (see Multiclassing, below), make sure to take the following steps in order. First, select your new class level. You must be able to qualify for this level before any of the following adjustments are made. Second, apply any ability score increases due to gaining a level. Third, integrate all of the level's class abilities and then roll for additional hit points. Finally, add new skills and feats. For more information on when you gain new feats and ability score increases, see Table: Character Advancement and Level-Dependent Bonuses.
You get a feat at the level the chart says. Not at any other level.
Agreed. I'm not a native speaker and not only I understand what it says, I have no doubt about what the instructions say.
For the OP: If you can't take interesting feats because you don't meet the prerequisites, look for other feats, Toughness is always usefull, i.e.
Furthermore, D&D d20 isn't about loosing power at certain level to gain more power at high level. If your players got problems figuring out what feats they may need in the long term, you may house rule that they can change some feat in the future (following the rules, they can never use their first level feat to take a feat of the Vital Strike tree, i.e. Only Fighters can do such thing)