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Okay, I had a bit of a crazy idea. I wnat to make a campaign setting that has a lot new races. In fact, I want there to be 36 new races, with humans becoming the 37th. The reason for wanting 36 races is that there are 36 combinations for ability bonuses and penalties. (3 physical abilities x 3 mental abilities x 4 possible ability penalties)
Now, the thing is that I want humanoid races, not silly things like warforged. I also want to deviate from the standard races, like the Elves and Dwarves. In fact, I want to make all the races a lot more human. (In appearance at least) I want to divide them into regions, so that there's a forest-folk, a mountain-folk, etc.
Here's wat I've got already:
Ice-folk. Cold and beautiful, Ice-folk have skin as white as porcelain and are resistant to cold.
Forest-folk. Forest-folk are hunters, they feel part of nature, not at one with nature.
Mountain-folk. These large men and women live in mountain villages.
Water-folk. Waterfolk live around the rivers and seas.
Under-folk. Small and quick, Under-folk live in dark caves.
This could all still change ofcourse, as this isn't my final draft. Now, I could use some help. Anything from suggestions, to fully developed races.
How do you come up with 36? Are you allowing only one ability bonus and one offsetting ability penalty? Otherwise, there are Quite a few more possible combinations than just 36.
EDIT: Heck, 36 is only if you have a bonus in the mental abilities offset buy a penalty in the physical, or vice versa. Doesn't even account for both the penalty and the bonus being in either mental or physical.
I believe he's assuming the "one positive to physical, one to mental" paradigm holds true. If he didn't it would be 6 * 5 * 4 (or 120).
That's what I gathered. Interesting assumption, not one *I* would ascribe to, but since it's not my setting, go for it. Having said that, I like the folk already mentioned. I noticed an elemental theme to them, with different aspects of each element: Ice, Water... how about a Cloud-folk? Other ones that come to mind: Swamp-folk, Desert-folk, Plains-Folk, maybe a Jungle-Folk subrace of the Forest-folk, Fire-folk, Sky-folk, Wind-folk....
I don't want to rain on your parade or discourage you from persuing this if that trips your trigger. I just have a huge problem logically with worlds that have more than 3 or 4 coexisting sentient races. Heck in games I run I try to avoid monstrous humanoid races as enemies, and stick to demons/dragons/aberrations. The plethora of crazy races were the number one problem I had with the WotC splatbooks, not the new base classes or feats or PrCs, but all the new weird races. Also its one big reason I loathe 4e.
I don't expect you to care, I just thought I'd share.
I don't want to rain on your parade or discourage you from persuing this if that trips your trigger. I just have a huge problem logically with worlds that have more than 3 or 4 coexisting sentient races. Heck in games I run I try to avoid monstrous humanoid races as enemies, and stick to demons/dragons/aberrations. The plethora of crazy races were the number one problem I had with the WotC splatbooks, not the new base classes or feats or PrCs, but all the new weird races. Also its one big reason I loathe 4e.
I don't expect you to care, I just thought I'd share.
True, but hell, if we want to be hardnosed about it, more than one sentient race lasting beyond the stone age is pretty unlikely -- just ask Neanderthal. So if we're gonna allow for elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, etc. (not to mention the Half-races, and the headache that is cross-species interbreeding), then why not 37?
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My view on races is that they are more like sub-races that are just different enough. In fact, in the campaign setting I run you could chalk it entirely up to a combination of upbringing, regional genetics and environment (with the exception of the consistently non-medium races, of which I only have one).
My view on races is that they are more like sub-races that are just different enough. In fact, in the campaign setting I run you could chalk it entirely up to a combination of upbringing, regional genetics and environment (with the exception of the consistently non-medium races, of which I only have one).
This. 36 different variations on one race is pretty plausible.
how about a noble race, something like Victorian France where they have all these guidelines and ridged rules on etiquette
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To expand on my caste system idea:
One society, all born into their final role (so they all share a charisma penalty due to having their sense of self suppressed for the greater good of their society, except the leader).
The following roles would exist: Gatherer, Crafter, Soldier (Grunt), Solider (Captain), Matriarch, and Nursers.
The gatherers get the raw resources (Con + Wis).
The crafters turn those into goods (Dex + Int).
The grunts (led by the captains(Int + Str)) wage war (Str + Wis).
The matriarch makes all the decisions (Con + Cha, -Str).
The nurses take care of and nurture the children of the other castes (Dex + Wis).
In fact, I might steal that idea for my campaign setting XD.
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I like the idea of a caste system. That's a good one.
Edit: I don't know if it will work though. The races I have so far are based on environment, not social status. It might work like that in a few countries, or the caste system would account for all races, but it shouldn't be the sole aspect of a race.
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Well, my initial thought was splitting them up in specific habitats.
The water-folk may be ''split'' between rivers and lakes, the sea shores, and the deep ocean. (The last one might not be playable, so I think that one should be dropped.)
Forest-folk could be ''split'' into Forest- and Jungle-folk.
It's definitely possible to let them share some traits, just as long as they don't become carbon-copies.
If plausibility is a problem you could just have a few of the 36 races be the "Major" races of the setting. Say the one with a +2 to STR and INT, -2 CHA used their strength and intellect to forge new societies effectively, but stays away from the other races and rips them off with trading.
I'd go with a race I did a while ago before I knew about the race from races of destiny that looks just like them, the Alshan. They are a tall, black-skinned people with typically black, white or brown hair and brightly colored eyes. The males have ivory-white horns and the females have white birthmarks. The color of your eyes and the position of the birthmark denotes your place in their caste based society. Magic users always have bright blue eyes, and those who gain this power's eyes do change color. They are excellent at making war and do not consider most alliances worth their time. They usually use glaives and khopeshs in battle. The women are typically regulated to a position of the government or a craft and the men are expected to be warriors, although both sexes are trained in the art of combat near the edges of the empire. The society is matriarchal, with a queen. They typically teach magic through apprenticeship, and each scholar is expected to keep his own book. The earth culture they have some flavor from is bizarro Egyptian culture, as they worship a pantheon, use a monarchy and have a holy animal (The Ox). Plus the khopesh is an Egyptian weapon
I too say "go all human". You don't want the classical races with their evocative history, and you want them all to be very human. Since the standard fantasy races already are very human (they're all just humans with some weird characteristics, which is mainly because real world humans have a really hard time imagining an intelligent race that isn't human), why let the similarities be even more obvious and try to sell humans with taped-on facial bumps be "different races"?
Humans are pretty diverse already. make "sub-races" by region and come up with explanations why they have the bonuses they have.
You'd have "mongrel humans", who get the standard human bonuses and have a varied descent from the several sub-races. Depending on how much you want to go with globalisation and cultural breakdown, you could make them weird outcasts or the dominating group.
Everything else would be localised folk who adapted to their home's unique requirements.
Some general guidelines for deciding what the sub-races' environments should be depending on their bonuses:
High strength implies your lifestyle involves a lot of hard work with heavy lifting and the like, or that you can or must use brutal fighting techniques to compete with the creatures that live around you. Probably other strong beasts (but not too strong), or tribes that respect sheer strength
Dexterity is useful if your environment is "tricky". You live among the trees and jump from branch to branch, or anywhere else where false moves will kill you. It can also mean that fast, agile or precise fighting styles - be to fast to be hit, use a fencing-like fighting style or employ bows.
Constitution suggests a harsh environment. Extreme climate, scarce resources, or many poisonous creatures and plants.
Intelligence is useful in more civilised areas where "sciences", knowledge or classical arcane magic are valued. Won't really help you living in a tribal society in the deep wilderness, but in cities, it's a great help
Wisdom either means that great resolve and discipline (in the contest with supernatural spirits or the like) are survival traits for you, or just good perception. Hunting lifestyles benefit most from the latter.
Charisma probably means that social interaction is very important for your people. In more "democratic" societies, it will be a great way to power. Or maybe you're from a nomadic background and need good people skills to get along with all the different people in all the different places that are along your route.
Example: Inhabitants of Sailsport. The city is run by a number of noble families, rakes' Houses and pirate clans. Dumb brutes are cannon-fodder at best, since the real gentleman knows how to wield the rapier elegantly (and if you're a pirate or sailor, you want to be a dextrous sea-rat, anyway). They depend on flair and elegance, but drug-use and whoring are "national pastimes" and their native language has no word for "fidelity" in the sense of "I won't sleep with anyone else." Sailsporters get a bonus to Dex and Cha, and a penalty to Wis.
Example: Tribes of the Ur. The Ur is a great, primal jungle. The somewhat superstitious natives think it is inhabited by possessive spirits that will control you if you don't observe certain rites. They don't even have a written language, but they know what's going on around them. And every Urel that lives to adulthood has been bitten by enough poisonous critters to depopulate a whole village of "more civilised" folk. Urels gain abonus to Con and Wis, and a penalty to Int.
At one time, I considered trying to develop a homebrew campaign setting with a similar concept. The gimmick was that all the races looked very similar (human-like) from puberty to middle-age, but were very different at birth and aged very differently.
For example: (with humans for comparison)
Human - starts small, smooth and undeveloped, but grow feeble and wrinkly with age. Tend to lose hair.
Rocky folk - Lay eggs that hatch into little bearded dwarves. Look human from puberty to middle age, but then grow taller, stronger and craggier as they get older so that by Venerable they are Large, or even Huge and have a tremendous bonus to Natural Armor from their rock-like skin.
Forest dwellers - Human-like from birth to Middle-age, but grow hairier and longer limbed as they get older.
Onion folk - Young are planted like seeds and tended like gardens until puberty. After middle-age, their skin turns quite brown and peels off in layers like an onion.
Reptilian - Young look like little kobolds. After Middle-age, their limbs begin to shrink and become worthless and they are fully Serpents by Venerable age.
I could go on, but you get the idea.
This would be an interesting idea. If they wern't all just called "Description-of-where-they-live"-folk.
And 36 is a ridiculously large number. Are you just going to cut out every non-human, intelligent race - including monstrous humanoids.
And why make "new" races. Humanoids in PF already get a +2 to whatever stat you want. Just have a large choice of racial abilities that are based on background.
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There was a dragon magazine article that at one time explored templates that one could place on existing races that caused them to be specific to a region.
Wild
Forrest
Desert
Arcane
Cold
ect...
Add onto this a caste based system and you could just use humans but give a wide variety of backgrounds from which to choose from.
example:
Noble from the northlands +2 for cha for nobility and a +2 to Con and lets say a -2 to dex because of the lack of those skills in the Northland.
It would take some time to set up but I am sure you could have an interesting hoembrew that way.
Adding to what you have here's 27 (I split up water-folk into a few different folks) sorry they're not as descriptive as yours, I'm lazy.
1) Ice-folk. Cold and beautiful, Ice-folk have skin as white as porcelain and are resistant to cold.
2) Forest-folk. Forest-folk are hunters, they feel part of nature, not at one with nature.
3) Mountain-folk. These large men and women live in mountain villages.
4) Under-folk. Small and quick, Under-folk live in dark caves.
5) Lake-folk. Live near lakes.
6) Ocean-folk. Live near oceans.
7) River-folk. Live near rivers
8) Swamp-folk. Live near swamps, probably pretty ugly (charisma penalty).
9) Plains-folk. Plains dwelling people, they probably raise a lot of livestock.
10) Hill-folk. Live on hills possibly big and dumb (kind of like hill giants)
11) Valley-folk. Some sort of mix between plains and hill-folk.
12) Cloud-folk. They could live near the tips of mountains, possibly a floating island if there is 1, or even live on clouds.
13) Jungle-folk. Jungle dwelling people, they could live in trees?
14) Desert-folk. Desert dwelling people, possibly nomadic.
15) Oasis-folk. A mix of lake and desert-folk.
16) Volcano-folk. They could possibly be called Fire-folk instead, they live near volcano's, probably a ashy gray skin.
17) Crag-folk. Also live near volcano's but in the not as close as Volcano-folk.
18) Deep-folk. The people that live in the Underdark (or the equivalent of the Underdark).
19) Wild-folk. Probably primitive people, possibly similar to the Neanderthal from Frostburn.
20) Mongrel-folk. A mutt, I'd give them a constitution bonus and possibly even look at the Mongrel-folk in Races of Destiny.
21) Sun-folk. Probably dark skinned people that live in extremely warm climates that don't have a lot of rain.
22) Moon-folk. The opposite of Sun-folk, they're probably nocturnal with really pale skin.
23) Star-nomads. Nomads that follow stars.
24) Beast-folk. Similar to Shifters maybe, or maybe they're just primitive and act beast-like.
25) Heaven-spawn. Similar to Aasimar.
26) Hell-spawn. Similar to Tieflings but only spawned from Devils.
27) Abyss-spawn. Also similar to Tieflings but only spawned from Demons.
8) Swamp-folk. Live near swamps, probably pretty ugly (charisma penalty).
What? With all the mud-packs they want? They'll get a bonus!
*everyone and their mom folk*
See, this is why I didn't like the idea.
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I mean, if you're going this far, just go with the house rule from the other thread where people pick a physical bonus and mental bonus and one penalty. By creating all of these "folk" you're already saying people will choose their race for stats, not flavor. Can't two people from the same region have different bonuses?
I like the way they're balanced right now, though it does leave dwarves pretty much unplayed (most clerics are human).
I like misquoting people
I like misquoting people
Yes obviously quoting your ridiculous long and poorly spaced list of "everything"-folk totally would have been far more than a waste of forum space.
Not suggesting you need to, but you could divide these up more systemically (particularly using that caste idea). To do that, you hold certain things constant, for instance:
6 groups of 6 races:
Each group has the same +2 physical (or mental instead), and a penalty to either a physical or a mental.
So Group 1 (Str, physical):
1a: +2 Str, +2 Int, -2 Dex
1b: +2 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Dex
1c: +2 Str, +2 Cha, -2 Dex
1d: +2 Str, +2 Int, -2 Con
1e: +2 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Con
1f: +2 Str, +2 Cha, -2 Con
Yes obviously quoting your ridiculous long and poorly spaced list of "everything"-folk totally would have been far more than a waste of forum space.I like misquoting people
Hey I was just trying to help the guy out. Just because you don't like the idea doesn't mean you have to post so in the forum. If the David wants to make 36 races that are pretty much just made by choosing an environment and then giving them a +2 to a physical and mental ability score and a penalty to either or who is someone that plays a game based solely on fantasy and myth to tell him it's a bad idea? Besides like one of my favorite quotes goes, "a little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men."
How about the
1) Humans
2) More humans
3) Humans from over there
4) Some more humans
5) Extra humans
6) That's alot of humans
7) Man where are all these humans coming from humans
Well here's a list of human nationalities in the known world. Seeing as how Chinese is around number 36 I'd say the Davids idea isn't that far fetched.
Well here's a list of human nationalities in the known world. Seeing as how Chinese is around number 36 I'd say the Davids idea isn't that far fetched.
I didn't say it was far-fetched. I will say it's boring but that's beside my original point that it is unnecessary and naming them all "x-Folk" is unimaginative and only heightens the boringness of it.
O, well, I'm not really to fond of just naming them all "x-folk" (although if you didn't notice I have 3 that end in spawn instead lol) either but I didn't really feel like taking the time to name them. It took me long enough to name the 13 races in my world and the 6 human nationalities.
O, well, I'm not really to fond of just naming them all "x-folk" (although if you didn't notice I have 3 that end in spawn instead lol) either but I didn't really feel like taking the time to name them. It took me long enough to name the 13 races in my world and the 6 human nationalities.
Which is why I don't see a point for 36. There are already a ton of intelligent races in D&D
Idk, I think it has something to do with getting away from the normal rpg races. I mean there are elves, gnomes, dwarves, orcs, and halflings in quite a few role playing games. Although I understand what you're saying very well, there's just something accomplishing about making your own races/world.
Idk, I think it has something to do with getting away from the normal rpg races. I mean there are elves, gnomes, dwarves, orcs, and halflings in quite a few role playing games. Although I understand what you're saying very well, there's just something accomplishing about making your own races/world.
That's what I asked. Are every intelligent race going to be thrown out? Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes, Orcs, Ogres, Tieflings, Aasimars, Giantkin, Centaurs, Minotaurs, Satyrs, etc etc
O, idk, the OP hasn't posted in a little while and I don't really know if he ever specified. I threw out all the intelligent races in my game though (except humans).
36 is a strange number, but if that's what you want to do, I say go the easy route...
Have 6 Races, and have all of them capable of interbreeding. Then, give every character 2 free racial feats at 1st level. Also, all characters default at medium size and speed 30, unless stated otherwise.
For example:
Benefit: You receive a +2 racial bonus to your Dexterity, as well as climb and acrobatics skill checks. In addition, you treat all "halfling' weapons as martial weapons, and begin the game speaking the halfling language.
Special: You also receive a -2 racial penalty to your Strength.
Prerequesite: Halfling Blood
Benefit: You receive a +2 racial bonus to your Charisma, as well as Perception skill checks. You also receive a +1 racial bonus to all saving throws. This bonus increases by +2 (to a total of +3) versus fear effects.
Special: You are small size, and have a base speed of 20.
Stat all 12 racial feats, and allow characters to choose their combinations (elf-elf, elf-dwarf, elf-gnome, whatever). That is MUCH less work than 36 complete races.
I recomend doing 1 sat-bump, 1 stat penalty, and all the "cultural" bonuses with the 1st feat. Save the 2nd stat-bump, size mods, and 'biological' bonuses for the 2nd feat.
Humans could look like this:
Benefit:[i] You receive a +2 racial bonus to any single ability score.
[i]Prerequesite: Human Blood
Benefit: You receive 1 additional skill rank each level.
Special: You may select 1 additional Feat at 1st level. This bonus feat may not be a racial feat, and must be a feat the character qualifies for.
Normal: Characters do not normally receive bonus feats when selecting racial feats.
My 2 coppers. I really think this is MUCH easier than 36 individual races. You only have to write 12 things this way. No reason to do all that work if you don't have to, especially since you want all the races to be similar.
What? With all the mud-packs they want? They'll get a bonus!
8) Swamp-folk. Live near swamps, probably pretty ugly (charisma penalty).
I kind of image toad-men when I think of "swamp-folk" but I guess you're right :P
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True, but hell, if we want to be hardnosed about it, more than one sentient race lasting beyond the stone age is pretty unlikely -- just ask Neanderthal. So if we're gonna allow for elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, etc. (not to mention the Half-races, and the headache that is cross-species interbreeding), then why not 37?I don't want to rain on your parade or discourage you from persuing this if that trips your trigger. I just have a huge problem logically with worlds that have more than 3 or 4 coexisting sentient races. Heck in games I run I try to avoid monstrous humanoid races as enemies, and stick to demons/dragons/aberrations. The plethora of crazy races were the number one problem I had with the WotC splatbooks, not the new base classes or feats or PrCs, but all the new weird races. Also its one big reason I loathe 4e.
I don't expect you to care, I just thought I'd share.
I know it may sound weird, but I've always wondered if the big folk can crossbreed (Half-Elves, Half-Orcs), why not the weefolk (Dwarmes, Gnomlings, Dwarlings)?
HH
I think the idea was that for some uncanny reason, humans can breed with almost anything (dragons have this trait as well). Because of this many different races of half-human (and half-dragon) exist, but other half-breeds are either unlikely or impossible.
I suppose it's possible for a half-elf to breed with a half-orc and make a (half human, quarter elf, quarter orc) creature. Though that would more or less round out to a mutt human.Either way, this limitation was to prevent there from being myriads of different race stat-blocks to accommodate all the half-breeds (not to mention quarter-breeds). With 36 base races there could be over 600 half-breeds, and once you start counting quarter breeds it explodes from there (over 50000 if my math is still good).
On the issue of "half-breeds" I've honestly always thought there should just be templates, I mean yes, it's extremely, extremely, extremely, unlikely for an Orc and an Elf to reproduce but there might be that special case. That's just me though.
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On the issue of "half-breeds" I've honestly always thought there should just be templates, I mean yes, it's extremely, extremely, extremely, unlikely for an Orc and an Elf to reproduce but there might be that special case. That's just me though.
Yeah, I like how the "half-dragon" template was done so that making a dragon half-breed was easy. Doing something similar (but lower powered) such as what Jason Rice described would probably be an ideal solution.
Just give every race a "base" and an "add-on" and have the half-breed pick which parent race provides the "base" and which provides the "add-on" (obviously not being able to pick the same parent for both).The base for a human might just be their bonus feat, and their add-on might be the +2 stat and +1 skill point, for example.
Of course, this is only necessary in a relatively promiscuous world. In other cases it's usually easier to ad-hoc the half-breed stats when the need arises.
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hmm, well to be honest, I don't think every race should be named -folk. In fact, they should all have a name in their own language. Humans will either adopt these names, or call them -folk.
And although they are humanoid, that doesn't make them human.
I intend to drop the dwarves and elves and such.
hmm, well to be honest, I don't think every race should be named -folk. In fact, they should all have a name in their own language. Humans will either adopt these names, or call them -folk.
And although they are humanoid, that doesn't make them human.
I intend to drop the dwarves and elves and such.
If you use the list I gave you, you only have to think up 9 more.