Zen Archery... but with Cha?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Liberty's Edge

Hello all,

Just looking for a feat that would do the same thing as Zen Archery, but with Charisma instead.

Not sure if it exists out there somewhere or not, but I figured I'd ask.

Thanks in advance :)


Never seen one sorry.
I would doubt it would ever exist as a PF feat as the archer paladin is tough enough now without that type of feat.


If it did exist, it could be called Intuitive Archery. Try selling it your GM, but I don't think it exists yet.


EpicFail wrote:
If it did exist, it could be called Intuitive Archery. Try selling it your GM, but I don't think it exists yet.

Closest I can think of is Snowflake Wardance (Frostburn p50)

Edit: Charming the Arrow
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030815a


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Good catch, Varthana. The Fey pre-requisite is tough though, at least for the games I've played in.

[from your link:]
"Prerequisite: Fey

Benefit: With a bow or crossbow made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Charisma modifier instead of your Dexterity modifier on attack rolls."


EpicFail wrote:
If it did exist, it could be called Intuitive Archery. Try selling it your GM, but I don't think it exists yet.

But, uh, isn't "Zen" Archery already based on intuition? Or at least, wouldn't it make more sense if it were?


DM_Blake wrote:
EpicFail wrote:
If it did exist, it could be called Intuitive Archery. Try selling it your GM, but I don't think it exists yet.
But, uh, isn't "Zen" Archery already based on intuition? Or at least, wouldn't it make more sense if it were?

No, Zen archery is about removal of 'self' from the moment. This enables you to react with perfect rationality regardless of the size and type of the threat. You are the proverbial 'eye' of the storm. It takes years of training and is a skill that can be learned and honed over years of practice.

Intuition implies that it is a natural state attainable to a select few who can act on a 'gut feeling' and be correct; it has little to do with skill.


DM_Blake, you are correct in that the original feat describes it as intuitive, and the PF rule book describes Wisdom as "a character’s willpower, common sense,awareness, and intuition."

However, spontaneous casters use Charisma to tap into intimate, deep rooted power to zap their opponents in the face. Sounds like intuitive to me, whereas the Wisdom is more discipline and conscious mind, as opposed to the unconscious mind of Charisma. Although perhaps we're straying away from the original question and into Freudian territory.

Back to nuts and bolts, if I were a GM I'd allow a Charisma to Dex substitute for archery via a feat.


I wouldn't allow a CHA replacement. Cha is force of personality, or to a lesser extent appearance. I just don't see how force of personality is going to make you better at hitting a target with a physical attack. Unless you're scaring the arrow into hitting or something silly like that.

Frankly, I would probably say either Int or Wis would work.

Int, to me, would be more along the lines of dispassionate reasoned and quick analysis of windage, distance, air resistance, gravity, etc. Something along the lines of an almost cybernetic and dispassionate analysis of all variables.

Wis would be more the intuitive 'zen' state, which tends to be the calm center of the storm that brings you in harmony with everything, the arrow, the air, the earth, the target, the bow, and etc. With Zen, you don't shoot the target, you choose the point where arrow, target, shooter and environment reach maximum harmony with each other.

Analytic Archery
Your intellect is so advanced that you can instantly and dispassionately analyze all environment variables, such as distance, windage, gravity, motion and weapon characteristics to make your ranged attacks.
Benefit : You may use your Int modifier to make ranged attacks, instead of your Dex modifier.
Normal : You use your Dex modifier when determining attack bonus for ranged attacks.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
mdt wrote:

Analytic Archery

Your intellect is so advanced that you can instantly and dispassionately analyze all environment variables, such as distance, windage, gravity, motion and weapon characteristics to make your ranged attacks.
Benefit : You may use your Int modifier to make ranged attacks, instead of your Dex modifier.
Normal : You use your Dex modifier when determining attack bonus for ranged attacks.

Why does this make me want to write up a "Quincy" inspired prestige class? :)


MaxAstro wrote:
mdt wrote:

Analytic Archery

Your intellect is so advanced that you can instantly and dispassionately analyze all environment variables, such as distance, windage, gravity, motion and weapon characteristics to make your ranged attacks.
Benefit : You may use your Int modifier to make ranged attacks, instead of your Dex modifier.
Normal : You use your Dex modifier when determining attack bonus for ranged attacks.
Why does this make me want to write up a "Quincy" inspired prestige class? :)

Honestly,

I think a 'Quincy' type mystic archer would work as a 20 level class without breaking the other classes. I might work one up for homebrew.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Zen Archery... but with Cha? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion