
Sleep-Walker |
So, I am playing in a pathfinder campaign that I am really enjoying. However, it recently came to light that my haul of treasure is more than double that of what should be normal for my level and more than triple what the other characters have.
I am playing a thief, no surprise there, and at earlier stages of the campaign was stealing common loot. However, I realized that this was a problem earlier on and curtailed that myself. My character is a thief, I have very good thief skills and when the opportunity arises I rob random NPC types blind, this has lead to me getting a lot of treasure outside of the standard adventures.
I am also a character who has a bunch of craft skills and a profession which I use whenever I get the chance. I am the most mercenary of the group and while other PCs will do things for random NPC 4 because they like them my character will always ask for payment.
I also focus on loot a lot more than the other players. Loot is the reason my character is adventuring, not to save the world or anything like that.
I think the major discrepancies come down to problems or errors caused by the treasurer missing things. Problems or errors stemming from the player not writing it down when they were told they got loot. Players using non-renewable resources like potions, scrolls, wands that cost a lot.
Another thing I think is worth mentioning is that I have not dumped all my wealth into one or three big items, most of my wealth is spread around countless small items of lowish value.
If players are basically held at the wealth level suggested for their level why bother looting at all? If at level nine I will have X treasure regardless of what I do, I can feed the poor, drink potions every second round, and churn through wands at super speed. And there is no point in the thief stealing anything.
Do any DM’s use the level wealth guide other than to create characters at above first level?
How do DMs deal with this kind of disparity?
How much of a problem is wealth disparity?
My wealth is not at a stage where it is turning the campaign into a monty haul mistake and a lot of my most expensive equipment sees use once a game at most like my Rust Bag of Tricks which I only really use to set off traps and my Glove of Storing which I haven’t used for weeks.
I am a player who plays for the love of loot. I am a player who would rather have a character die forever than have a character lose all his stuff forever. Limiting my loot would be limiting my fun. Why can’t a first level character who happens upon an item of high value keep it even though it puts him why out of his GP category?

Lathiira |

If no one is having problems with your haul of loot and no one's character is having problems with the amount of loot that PC has, then there isn't a problem. You're all happy with what you have. If someone is having problems because they're not equipped properly for their level and it shows (e.g. wizard doesn't know many spells, fighters don't have appropriate weapons and armor for the creatures you fight, etc.), then your group may need to evaluate things again.
The WBL is a guideline.
Depending on how encounters are set up, you can function just fine with more loot, less loot, even minimal loot. It requires a lot of effort on the GM's part though to compensate at times. If your group routinely fights 4 fights of an appropriate CR per day, being off your WBL will get your party slaughtered, particularly at higher levels. But you can function with disparities in wealth among PCs to some degree. Druids, for example, don't need much beyond wild armor to use when wildshaping and maybe some stuff to buff their stats while eating the bad guys. Really, is anyone complaining?
Also, you assume that everyone will always end up at a certain level with a certain amount of loot. That's not going to be the case in any given campaign. My current campaign started with my PC right on track with WBL, but now 3 levels later I just haven't added much treasure to my PC. Others add tremendous amounts of treasure. It varies.

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Wealth per level is not a hard and fast rule, it's a guideline for GMs to use for placing treasure. If your average party wealth is lower than that then a GM might think about increasing treasure hoards for a little while. If average party wealth is lower then maybe he should lower the treasure coming in.
I don't really allow individual characters to do side quests or give them the opportunity to acquire a lot of wealth because exactly the problem you state. You can quickly have one player who has a lot more wealth than the rest.

DM_Blake |

That's a lot of questions in one post.
To start with the Character Wealth By Level chart, yes, I really only use that for generating new characters above level 1. However, once in a while, usually at a good breaking point (say, between each book of an AP), I ask the players to do a quick audit of their equipment. Anyone who is below the appropriate value on the chart will find a helpful item or two in their next adventures (that's a simplified version; I'm a bit more complex than that).
However, I do not do the reverse. I don't ever take away items from any PC over the chart value, nor do I usually edit treasure hoards to remove something that I know they will get. That said, if there is someone clearly way over the chart and someone under it, I might replace one item in an upcoming teasure hoard, removing something the rich guy would take and inserting something the poor guy would take.
Also, if the general group "average" is significantly over the chart, I will limit coins and general purpose items (like healing potions) for a little while to get them back on track. And vice-versa, I will beef up the next bunch of treasures a little if the party is below the chart values.
I like to keep things roughly on track, especially with pre-gen adventures (I assume the authers expect normal wealth values and magic items when they design encounters).
As for actual loot distribution, I don't really care if one PC is 2x or 3x richer than other PCs. The players often work that out themselves ("Hey, Fred, your mage has gotten several items lately, I think he should skip a round or two of our next magic item distribution" or something like that, in-character or out of character). And if the players as a group don't care enough (or worry about it enough) to balance it out, then neither do I.
And as for a thief PC thieving all the time, I am a big fan of DMs allowing characters to use their abilities. If you're a thief, and you could have been something else, then denying you the ability to steal stuff is punishing your for your character choices. I don't like doing that.
That said, I also play my campaign worlds with a bit of realism. Actions have consequences. When the local constabulary gets a sudden influx of people reporting thefts and burglary, they look to see who's new in town, keep an eye on their suspects, investigate the crimes, and if that doesn't produce results, they might even resort to magic. Someone who "when the opportunity arises I rob random NPC types blind" won't get away with that for very long. Once the wanted posters go up and the city watch will arrest you on sight, your activities might be curtailed a bit.
At that point a clever thief will find a new city to call home. However, that can be extremely difficult when he is part of an adventuring party and the rest of the party, maybe even including the thief, wants to remain local and finish an adventure. I have had more than one larcenous PC remain camped in the woods while the rest of the party goes to town, sells stuff, buys stuff, sleeps in warm beds, all because he can't get in the gates without going to prison.
Note: That last bit is not about punishing a player for being a thief, it's about providing consequences for his choices. He could have chosen to not "rob random NPC types blind" but instead just filch a little bit here and there. He could have chosen to move from city to city and spread out the crime wave, rather than staying local where authorities would be forced to deal with the crime wave. He could have chosen to pay huge bribes to the authorities (or local thieve's guild) for protection, which results in drastically reducing his larcenous income and provding that mechanical wealth balance we're looking for.
There are choices and consequences, and no thief will get away with robbing people blind for long.

Charender |

So, I am playing in a pathfinder campaign that I am really enjoying. However, it recently came to light that my haul of treasure is more than double that of what should be normal for my level and more than triple what the other characters have.
I am playing a thief, no surprise there, and at earlier stages of the campaign was stealing common loot. However, I realized that this was a problem earlier on and curtailed that myself. My character is a thief, I have very good thief skills and when the opportunity arises I rob random NPC types blind, this has lead to me getting a lot of treasure outside of the standard adventures.
I am also a character who has a bunch of craft skills and a profession which I use whenever I get the chance. I am the most mercenary of the group and while other PCs will do things for random NPC 4 because they like them my character will always ask for payment.
No problems so far both side adventures and crafting are ways you can potentially break past the wealth per level.
Another way is via getting lucky on the random loot tables. Example, you are heavily specialized in wielding greataxes and a +2 flaming greataxe shows up. If it had been a greatsword, you would have had to sell it for 50% of its value, but because you can use it, the party avoids having to take the 50% loss in value.
I also focus on loot a lot more than the other players. Loot is the reason my character is adventuring, not to save the world or anything like that.
I think the major discrepancies come down to problems or errors caused by the treasurer missing things. Problems or errors stemming from the player not writing it down when they were told they got loot. Players using non-renewable resources like potions, scrolls, wands that cost a lot.
Another thing I think is worth mentioning is that I have not dumped all my wealth into one or three big items, most of my wealth is spread around countless small items of lowish value.
If players are basically held at the wealth level suggested for their level why bother looting at all? If at level nine I will have X treasure regardless of what I do, I can feed the poor, drink potions every second round, and churn through wands at super speed. And there is no point in the thief stealing anything.
Do any DM’s use the level wealth guide other than to create characters at above first level?
As stated by others, it is a guideline. If players are over it, then encounters will be easier. If players are below it, encounter will be harder. I use it to adjust the difficulty of encounters.
How do DMs deal with this kind of disparity?
If there is a huge disparity within the party, then do something.
If the most of the group is below where they should be, then I will give out some specialized loot for the poorer players(like a greataxe that the barbarian would kill for) to bring the other players up a little.
If I feel the group as a whole is a little on the high side, then I might use some encounters that have a higher risk of loot destruction(rust monster, bag of devouring, a fighter who favors sundering attacks, etc).
How much of a problem is wealth disparity?
Is the group being challenged? Is everyone having fun? The answer depends a lot on your players. Some players love monty haul campaigns, others would rather fight uphill through the snow both ways with their hands tied behind their back for the extra challenge.
My wealth is not at a stage where it is turning the campaign into a monty haul mistake and a lot of my most expensive equipment sees use once a game at most like my Rust Bag of Tricks which I only really use to set off traps and my Glove of Storing which I haven’t used for weeks.I am a player who plays for the love of loot. I am a player who would rather have a character die forever than have a character lose all his stuff forever. Limiting my loot would be limiting my fun. Why can’t a first level character who happens upon an item of high value keep it even though it puts him why out of his GP category?
It depends. If you are the only person having fun, and the rest of the party is being reduced to acting as your side kicks, then there is a problem. I imagine that it would be a lot of fun to play Frodo with your super amazing one ring, but would you want to be forced to play Sam, Merry, or Pippin?

DM_Blake |

Why can’t a first level character who happens upon an item of high value keep it even though it puts him why out of his GP category?
I did that for a campaign hook once. The PCs lived on a small island. Their town was protected by a local silver dragon. There were aquatic races (aquatic goblins and sahuagin) who occasionally attacked the town but the dragon always helped defend it.
Then one day the dragon stopped coming. And the town got attacked. And when the monsters found no dragon, they got serious about it and called in reinforcements.
The elders sent the brand new first level PCs to the dragon's cave way up in the mountains. There they found a dead dragon sleeping on a big treasure hoard. They looted the magic items and what coins they could carry and returned and saved the village using some powerful items no first level characters should have.
And that's when the trouble started. Other dragons have ways of knowing when a friend (or enemy) of their dies. Powerful NPCs and treasure seekers often use divination magic to learn of such things, and many of them think nothing of taking good stuff away from little noobs who are too weak to defend what they looted. Etc.
They didn't get to keep all their goodies for very long, but they gained lots of XP taking on encounters far above their CR for a few quick levels - and that was my whole point. All the players had mentioned that they were tired of being low-level noobs, it was always the same thing, kill an orc, kill a goblin, kill a kobold, kill another orc, etc. They didn't want to go through that drudgery for the millionth time. So with this campaign hook, they didn't, other than fighting a couple dozen aqua-goblins in their first big encounter. It was only taking 3 or 4 encounters for them to gain each of their first few levels, so we got them overwith fairly quickly.

DM_Blake |

I imagine that it would be a lot of fun to play Frodo with your super amazing one ring, but would you want to be forced to play Sam, Merry, or Pippin?
No, if I recall, those players went off and started their own game of Star Wars d20.

Charender |

Charender wrote:I imagine that it would be a lot of fun to play Frodo with your super amazing one ring, but would you want to be forced to play Sam, Merry, or Pippin?No, if I recall, those players went off and started their own game of Star Wars d20.
Only after Frodo was out of the picture.