Mithril Medium Armor and Bards

[Quandary]

I googled wizards for a FAQ on this, but couldn't find anything.
Mithril Armor says:
"Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations."

Bard's Armor Proficiency says:
"A bard can cast bard spells while wearing light armor and use a shield without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a bard wearing medium or heavy armor incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component."

Would Mithril Medium Armor count as Light Armor for the purposes of being able to cast Somatic spells without ASF%?
This seems like something that should be "known" or answered via a FAQ somewhere already, but I couldn't find an answer.

[Abraham spalding]

Yes the bard can use it as light armor for spell casting, however he has to deal with the ACP on attack rolls.

However if you have it done to a breastplate and take the Armor training combat trait then you wouldn't have any ACP to deal with since it would be -0.

[PathfinderEspañol]

Quandary wrote:

I googled wizards for a FAQ on this, but couldn't find anything.

Mithril Armor says:
"Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations."

Bard's Armor Proficiency says:
"A bard can cast bard spells while wearing light armor and use a shield without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a bard wearing medium or heavy armor incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component."

Would Mithril Medium Armor count as Light Armor for the purposes of being able to cast Somatic spells without ASF%?
This seems like something that should be "known" or answered via a FAQ somewhere already, but I couldn't find an answer.

I have searched in the last 3.5 FAQ, there's no specific answer. They say that the idea about mithral in 3.5 was to be one category lighter in any case, but it was left for DM interpretation.

Since Pathfinder only states one exception (you still need Medium armor proficiency!!)I would say yes, the armor can be used by a bard without suffering arcane spell failure chances.

[Quandary]

Thanks, I just wanted to know if it was "too good to be true".

[0gre]

Quandary wrote:

Thanks, I just wanted to know if it was "too good to be true".

Well unless you take Medium proficiency or dip a level of rogue fighter you get some a -2 ACP on a lot of skills and attacks.

I guess in that perspective a single feat will net you +2 AC bonus (depending on Dex). You might also think of Elven Chain which is a little more expensive but you don't need the feat to use it.

[Abraham spalding]

0gre wrote:

Well unless you take Medium proficiency or dip a level of rogue fighter you get some a -2 ACP on a lot of skills and attacks.

I think you mean -1. Breastplates are normally -4, but mithral takes 3 off leaving only 1, which would be completely neutralized if you take the armor training trait.

[MisterSlanky]

There is one exception: Elven Chain

This extremely light chainmail is made of very fine mithral links. This armor is treated, in all ways, like light armor, including when determining proficiency. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 20%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +4, and an armor check penalty of –2.

This means your bard can wear it even non-proficient in medium armors and not take the -2 to attacks for no proficiency in medium armors.

[Abraham spalding]

Again I insist to point out that for the mithral breastplate in question the penalty is only a -1... not a - 2.

[Quandary]

Great, more options. I was thinking mostly in the context of a Bard->Dragon Disciple who obviously will be in melee alot, so both of these options seems great for not interfering with Spellcasting at all. It would have some other melee class (Fighter/Barbarian) as the remainder of it's classes to qualify for DD, so the proficiency itself isn't a problem.

[Guardianknight]

Abraham spalding wrote:

Again I insist to point out that for the mithral breastplate in question the penalty is only a -1... not a - 2.

That is true, but you have to be proficient in Medium armor or you take that -1 on attack rolls as well as the skills that the armor check penalty applies to. It's a higher check penalty for the elven chain but you don't take that penalty to attack rolls. It all depends on whether you want to take an extra feat or pay more money. Bards do not have medium armor proficiency normally if I remember correctly.

[Quandary]

Guardianknight wrote:

Abraham spalding wrote:

Again I insist to point out that for the mithral breastplate in question the penalty is only a -1... not a - 2.

That is true, but you have to be proficient in Medium armor or you take that -1 on attack rolls as well as the skills that the armor check penalty applies to. It's a higher check penalty for the elven chain but you don't take that penalty to attack rolls. It all depends on whether you want to take an extra feat or pay more money. Bards do not have medium armor proficiency normally if I remember correctly.

That is true, but he mentioned twice that the concept was to use Mithril Breastplate in conjunction with the Armor Training Trait (name overlap with Fighter Feature?), reducing it 0 ACP. Anyhow, if you take Fighter/Barb/Paladin on the way to Dragon Disciple you get free Medium Armor Proficiency anyways.

[Guardianknight]

Quandary wrote:

Guardianknight wrote:

Abraham spalding wrote:

Again I insist to point out that for the mithral breastplate in question the penalty is only a -1... not a - 2.

That is true, but you have to be proficient in Medium armor or you take that -1 on attack rolls as well as the skills that the armor check penalty applies to. It's a higher check penalty for the elven chain but you don't take that penalty to attack rolls. It all depends on whether you want to take an extra feat or pay more money. Bards do not have medium armor proficiency normally if I remember correctly.

That is true, but he mentioned twice that the concept was to use Mithril Breastplate in conjunction with the Armor Training Trait (name overlap with Fighter Feature?), reducing it 0 ACP. Anyhow, if you take Fighter/Barb/Paladin on the way to Dragon Disciple you get free Medium Armor Proficiency anyways.

Ah, didn't realize that. Traits aren't always allowed so I tend to forget about them unless the DM says I can use them. I thought it was the fighter ability and that's three levels to get.

[spalding]

Your DM might not mind so much if you spend the feat to get two traits. That way it's not a "give me" but something you've "paid for" with the feat. Honestly the armor trait and say a rich parents done as a "stipend" for your duty as a retired city guard or militia member and you can explain away in game the reasons for both.

[Quandary]

Guardianknight wrote:

Ah, didn't realize that. Traits aren't always allowed so I tend to forget about them unless the DM says I can use them. I thought it was the fighter ability and that's three levels to get.

I looked it up. It's called "Armor EXPERT", not Armor Training, which IS the Fighter Class feature.

[0gre]

Doesn't much matter if it's -1 or -2 it's a pretty significant penalty and worth taking the feat to avoid. The Elven Chain is probably the better bet.