I was reading the grapple maneuver and noticed something about trip.
For some reason I was under the impression that if get pinned you would also get prone, but I can't find that in the rules. And I guess that you can be pinned and even bonded while sitting down or on your knees.
Any comment?
I don't think it implies prone. My interpretation is it's more like a chokehold.
I'm not an expert on the Grappling rules but I don't think Pinned and Prone are related. There are joint locks and other martial maneuvers that can pin an opponent who is still standing. In other words, you could be pinned, you could be prone, or you could be both.
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I don't believe either grappled or pinned implies prone. So you could effectively pin someone while standing. The grappler however should be able to move himself and his opponent prone by succeeding a grapple check after the initial one. It is unclear if this should be an action in itself, so should be up to the DM. I would say that you could move someone prone as part of a pin, or as part of a grapple check made to maintain control.
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Pinned does not equal prone. That would be a Trip (CMB) attack. Grappling represents struggling with a foe in very close quarters, close enough that your longsword is a hindrance, and your dagger a trusted friend. Pinned means you have forced the advantage and the opponent can do little but try and escape your iron grip; imagine the classic neck grip/being lifted off the ground- that would be an example of being 'pinned'.
Chiming in to agree that it is not necessary to be prone to be pinned.
In real life, holds like a Full Nelson are very immobilizing (pinned) while still on your feet. My Jujitsu instructor (Japanese traditional Jujitsu, not the ground-n-pound Brazilian stuff) had many painful, immobilizing, and even choke/sleeper holds where neither the holder nor the victim left their feet, and many more that were more like sitting than prone.
Likewise, in game, many monsters can initiate grapples and/or constrict. I don't imagne a Remorhaz would deign to slither on the ground to wrap up that elf - more likely it pounces, wraps around him right there on his feet, and crushes him still standing.
Or consider a Grasping Hand spell. It's like King Kong's hand reaching out and grabbing Fae Rae (or Naomi Watts if you're a young'un) and grappling her right there on her feet.
Looks like there's general agreement on this.
What do you guys think about the character that gets bonded to himself with a rope and left alone (the grappler leaves him and attacks another foe), if i'm reading it right the bonded guy is pinned and can't move (even with some penalty). Weird?
Looks like there's general agreement on this.
What do you guys think about the character that gets bonded to himself with a rope and left alone (the grappler leaves him and attacks another foe), if i'm reading it right the bonded guy is pinned and can't move (even with some penalty). Weird?
Doesn't seem weird to me. Bob is pinned then trussed up like a turkey. When Floyd moves off, the tied up Bob can use his Escape Artist ability to try to get free, or do a STR check to break the ropes, or whatever.
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Looks like there's general agreement on this.
What do you guys think about the character that gets bonded to himself with a rope and left alone (the grappler leaves him and attacks another foe), if i'm reading it right the bonded guy is pinned and can't move (even with some penalty). Weird?
Weird? If the attacker takes the time to tie up someone and succeeds then they are effectively pinned by the ropes. Remember, you get a -10 to tie someone up while grappling them so the DC of 20+CMB isn't uncalled for.
Weird? If the attacker takes the time to tie up someone and succeeds then they are effectively pinned by the ropes. Remember, you get a -10 to tie someone up while grappling them so the DC of 20+CMB isn't uncalled for.
Yes, it's fair, I was thinking "weird" as "I can't imagine the situation".
If you have your legs bonded (and not bonded to some furniture), you aren't prone and you are alone, I would say that you can move (more or less slow) by small leaps. Uhm.. It would be a bit cartoonish anyway.
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Weird? If the attacker takes the time to tie up someone and succeeds then they are effectively pinned by the ropes. Remember, you get a -10 to tie someone up while grappling them so the DC of 20+CMB isn't uncalled for.Yes, it's fair, I was thinking "weird" as "I can't imagine the situation".
If you have your legs bonded (and not bonded to some furniture), you aren't prone and you are alone, I would say that you can move (more or less slow) by small leaps. Uhm.. It would be a bit cartoonish anyway.
Oh, I see you were referring to being tied up and not prone. Well, like I mentioned above. I would allow the grappler to place the defendant prone, similar to a trip as long as they succeed in another grapple or pin attempt.
Also remember, a tied up "bound" creature, is helpless. Even if they could wiggle around to move, if they weren't tied to something. It should take them a full round action to move 5 feet. Once tied up, they are likely to fall prone anyways... unless tied in a way to keep their feet free for walking around.
EDIT: Removed bit about making an additional trip attempt.