Mainly I believe that it is a balancing issue of the class. If the wizard could cast any spell they had learned without a limit then they would be way too overpowered in comparison to the other classes. If you cannot understand or don't like the wizard's spell system, just remove the class from your game and make the sorcerer the only main arcane spell casting class.
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Wizards get access to higher spell levels faster and than sorcerors and most importantly they are not limited to a very, very small amount of spells known. These two things result in Wizard > Sorcerer, most of the time.
The "on the fly" metamagic is one of the very few things that Sorcerers actually have in advantage over Wizards.
I've never seen a magic system in any rpg that I liked. Dragon Age Tabletop had some good ideas, but the AGE system is clunky and unbalanced in almost any other area. Mage: Awakening comes very close to what I want out of a magic system if it was not for the horrible reality wherein the game is set.
Getting back on track, I use the same house rules that I did in 3.0 and 3.5:
Rest required to recharge spells is reduced to five hours.
Wizards only consult spellbooks if they wish to change their spell lineup; and this only requires ten minutes. I see this being the same for the witch.
Divine spellcasters still have to meditate everyday, but only for ten minutes.
They do not learn them every morning as they know them anyhow. What they do is cast them that morning. Rituals that take time and "hold" them ready. The spells are held or paused until a time the wizard "closes" the circuit setting them off with a few words and components.
Same with clerics and druids. They pray for the spells they need in effect "casting " them at that time. Then they just hold them ready.
Now sorcerers on the other hand, much like bards do not really cast a spell. They compel the magic with a few words but it's not the same type of casting a wizard does. It's not complex forms and words and the long rituals a wizard knows its more using your force of personality to form the "spell" in a way you know how.
A sorcerer does not know the spell. He knows how to force or mold magic into a few set forms.
The wizard is already a very powerful class, in many people's opinion, the single most powerful by quite a margin (personally, I think it's a close tie between it and the druid). Removing the one major limiting factor it has will make it far too powerful. It will always have the answer to a certain situation.
You say it won't be more powerful because he can't cast more spells, yet you yourself describe why it would make it more powerful: If he has a fireball prepared and encounters a fire elemental, he won't have use for it and due to that, he would have more spells if he could spontaneosly change the spells.
The very thing with the wizard is that you have to be prepared. You have to try to find out what you're up against, and you have to use your knowledge to best face it. The wizard and sorcerer can both be equal or better than most other classes in most aspects out of combat and a fair deal of them in combat, the limitation they have is that they can't be that and something else. You can build a wizard or sorcerer that can occasionly out-sneak the rogue, but he can't do that the same day (or in the case of the sorcerer, ever) as he's a combat monster. Removing this limitation makes the wizard outshine every other class.
I could see making a spontaneous wizard that can know unlimited spells. However, I can't see that not being overpowered with the current spell list and more than 6 spell levels over the course of the 20 levels.
Or the need to learn spells every day for magic users.
For thirty years of playing from AD&D, AD&D2, 3.0 to 3.5, there is one point (of rules ?) I have always found annoying if not completly silly, that's the need for magic users to learn their spells in advance every morning.
Not learn, prepare. Wizards don't forget spells when they cast them, they release energy they had previously stored. Wizards don't actually learn spells at all, with the exception of Read Magic and any spells as a result of the Spell Mastery feat. They keep records of how to prepare these spells - that's what a spellbook is. Could you memorize potentially hundreds of pages of formulae, knowing that small errors in preparation could potentially cause...well, almost anything (pesky magic!)?
I think this makes sense. Sorcerers have spells pretty much hardwired into their beings, and they just force magical energy through themselves to cast spells. Wizards can't do this, so they (slowly) pre-cast spells so that the energy can be released later with a few simple actions.
And yes, there is a balance issue. A wizard who can cast ANY spell he has access to is many times more powerful - because he will use EVERY spell slot to maximum possible effect. Imagine being able to optimize your casting to every situation. Suddenly the wizard doesn't have to plan, doesn't have to think ahead, doesn't have to be creative. Just gobble down every spell you can and let the mortals fall on their knees before you :-/. Full casters are already the most powerful class options in D&D, taking away one of their limitations (need to prepare) just makes them more powerful - which they don't need to be.
As for certain spells being almost never used, this all depends on campaign style and player preference. If all you do is combat, combat, combat, then yeah, you're choosing from a short list of very efficient combat spells. But, D&D offers more than just combat. Most wizards I've seen acquire Arcane Lock, even though they might only cast it 5-6 times EVER. Similarly, Make Whole is a great spell to have because stuff does get broken - and you only have to wait until tomorrow to fix it! Many spells are VERY useful for reconnaissance, but not for combat.
My question is why there is need to learn spells in advance (and it pallies to the cleric, druid and others too). It is not there to balance the sorcerer and the wizard. It exists since the start of D&D, and the sorcerer doesn't exist then. It annoys me since, but was bearable as every spellcaster suffers it. So why the sorcerer, and maybe the bard (I have never seen a bard in play) don't ? And I don't see how it balances the classes.
The sorcerer and bard are a STEP DOWN from Cleric/Druid/Wizard. They gave up basically all their versatility in exchange for 'more spells per day'. People didn't play a sorcerer very much in 3.0/3.5 for that very reason, and that's why Pathfinder beefed them up with cool powers, much moreso than they did the Wizard, Cleric, or Druid. Don't think the sorcerers have it better than the Wizards - they don't. Sorcerers will find themselves in more situations where ALL of their spells are basically useless, unless they choose their spell list very carefully and are very creative. And they never touch those spells that are generally not very useful, but VERY handy in certain situations (Arcane Eye, Gentle Repose, etc.).
My question is why there is need to learn spells in advance (and it pallies to the cleric, druid and others too). It is not there to balance the sorcerer and the wizard. It exists since the start of D&D, and the sorcerer doesn't exist then. It annoys me since, but was bearable as every spellcaster suffers it. So why the sorcerer, and maybe the bard (I have never seen a bard in play) don't ? And I don't see how it balances the classes.
1a. The balance reason. Wizards are incredibly powerful already, being able to shape the universe and all that. Requireing of them to spend an out beforehand to cast a spell that alters reality isn't that awful I think.
1b. Compared to the sorcerer, the wizard knows many more spells. When the sorcerer gains access to a new spell level, he knows a single spell of that level. The wizard can know 15. The wizard has to prepare it, sure, but the sorcerer still has less versatility. Increasing the wizards versatility further would make the sorcerer obsolete.2. The fluff reason. The magic feels a little more unique to the system (it's the only major game system that uses a variant of vancian magic, I think) when you can imagine the wizard casting all his spells in the morning, and then walking around like a loaded gun, only a word and gesture from releasing all his power.
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If you want to break down the strengths and weaknesses of wizards and sorcerers currently for a comparision, this is how I would do it: I'm grading the bonuses on a +1 to +5 scale based on how important I percieve them. This IS subjective, but I think you will find that many of people think they are at least somewhat right.
Pros wizard:
- Faaar more skill points. +3
- Can learn any spell on the best spell list. +5
- Earlier access to spell levels. +1
- Bonus feats +3
- School powers +2
Total: +14
Pros sorcerer:
- Better social skills and UMD. +1
- More spells per day. +4
- Bloodlines +3
- Spontaneous casting +4
Total: +12
The wizard, IMO, comes out a little bit ahead of the sorcerer. Not by much, but by a small amount. Add spontaneous casting though, and he'd be far more powerful than the sorcerer in most aspects.
I will note again that this is subjective, but I think a fair number of people would generally agree with my ratings.
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Note that the example you gave with the wizard being unable to use his fireball against a fire elemental - remember that a wizard usually has 3 or 4 spells prepared of 3rd level at 6th character level, so he might very well have a more useful spell such as haste or sleet storm prepared. The sorcerer who has picked fireball as his only 3rd-level spell at 6th level will not have access to ANY 3rd level spells in a fight against a fire elemental. And he won't be able to carry the party over a rift or hide them from the giants on the other side either.
Sounds to me like you should just play a sorcerer. Well, he is also SOL if he hasn´t chosen featherfall as one of his few few FEW known spells, but hey, nothing´s perfect...
Jean-Marc, my first RPG love has always been Chivalry and Sorcery 1st edition. There is no better magic system in my opinion, especially if you want the feel of classic fantasy or historical. Learning spells is long and laborious, and casting them is only tiring. Creating a magic item takes up to years and is easily spoiled.
Also, take a look at Riddle of Steel or Warhammer 2nd ed. They both have systems where the casting of spells is at will, but dangerous to do (aging, mutations etc.).
I liked the Shadowrun drain magic system myself, but there is no way to fit it into d&d that I am aware of.
OP, if you really cannot understand then make the wizards more like sorcerers. Grant them an extra spell to add to the spell book for free every level, and get rid of the add spells to spell book mechanic beyond that. Basically then the spell book becomes the spells known. If something happens to it the wizard can make a new one in a similar fashion as if an animal companion or familiar is lost and you should be good to go. "preparing" in the morning is nothing more than brushing up on the notes in the spell book, or you can wipe the preparing idea form the game. give your divine classes a prayer book mechanic if you wish to prevent their preparing.
writing a prohibited spell into a wizards spellbook costs two spell known slots.
I liked the Shadowrun drain magic system myself, but there is no way to fit it into d&d that I am aware of.
Fast and dirty. After casting a spell make a fort save of 15+ spell level or take 1d6 points of non-lethal damage per spell level. Or you could make it 2 or 3 hp per spell level.You could have bleed over as well. say if you have 3 hp of non-lethal left and use 5 hp to cast that last spell, 2 hp would then be real damage
As I said fast and dirty but it could work with a little thought put into it.
- Faaar more skill points. +3
I don't argue with your overall opinion but I think the Wizard actually pays inordinately for his skill points. He\she is supposed to be knowledgeable but gets no more skill points than the fighter while the rogue gets 4 times that total.
Wizards concentrate on Intelligence but they are forced to pay in every other category. More so than other classes.
- Faaar more skill points. +3
I don't argue with your overall opinion but I think the Wizard actually pays inordinately for his skill points. He\she is supposed to be knowledgeable but gets no more skill points than the fighter while the rogue gets 4 times that total.
Wizards concentrate on Intelligence but they are forced to pay in every other category. More so than other classes.
Most wizards will have more than 1/4 the skill points of most rogues, and more skill points than most fighters. A wizard can put a 16+2 in intelligence without being crippled, a fighter or rogue can't do that. They don't get more class skill points, but that's another story.
That's why I also included the "better social skills and UMD" on the sorcerer, because he'll focus on that naturally.Still, most wizards will have at least 6-7 (+4 int, possibly +1 human) skill points per level, whereas most fighters will have 2-3 skill points per level. Even a fighter that actually thinks a bit about skills will usually have 4 or 5 skill points per level (+1 FC, +1 int, possibly +1 human). Sorcerers might have maybe 3-5 skill points per level.
A Wizard does not need to prepare all of his spells at once after he wakes up.
"Spell Preparation Time: After resting, a wizard must study his spellbook to prepare any spells that day. If he wants to prepare all his spells, the process takes 1 hour. Preparing some smaller portion of his daily capacity takes a proportionally smaller amount of time, but always at least 15 minutes, the minimum time required to achieve the proper mental state."
Just a bit further down.
"When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, he can repeat the preparation process as often as he likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. He cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of his spells."
Thus a Wizard could choose to memorize 1/4 of his spells in the morning and take only 15 minutes. Later if there is time and changing situations take another 15 minutes to memorize another 1/4 of his available slots. This has been in since at least 3.5.
I disliked the system for a very long time.
Now I love it.
It's really all a matter of context — and the rulebook offers very little in the way of explanation, sadly.
In your post, you speak of a wizard "learning" his spells each day. This implies that you see magic as "skill-based", it is an action that once you know how to do it, you can reproduce it as much as you like. That's cool, there are lots of skill-based magic games, and most fictional magic works like this.
At some point I realized that a wizard doesn't "learn" his spells. He prepares them. A Vancian spell is a reality hack — a series of instructions you can follow to alter the rules of creation. At preparation, you put the power in place and carry it around on your own soul like a loaded weapon. Specific movements, materials and words can then trigger that weapon. You needn't "learn" anything at all to cast, you must simply have an internal strength that can be learned (by wizards), inherited (by sorcerers), or given (by the gods to their clerics).
That's a truly unique and interesting philosophy of magic. No, it doesn't jive with most people's expectation of magic (which may be better served by some kind of magic skill roll).
So my advice to you is this: try and think about plausible reasons that magic would work as written. It is magic, after all, there's no real world comparison for how it should work. I find that I enjoy the game a lot more since I stopped trying to "fix" magic and started explaining its quirks for my own amusement.
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A wizard can have as many spells for whatever contingency he needs, all he must do is buy the scroll, steal a spellbook, inherit, etc. He can have 50+ 2nd level spells, of all schools (save opposition schools were he to specialize).
An equivalent sorcerer can only have like 6 or 7 of each level spell. He is very limited in what he can cast every day....I would imagine being evocation based can get cumbersome and boring very quickly when you need but dont have the "Knock" spell, or the "Feather Fall" spell.
Sorcerers seem to almost always be "kill first" oriented, IMHO. I have yet to really see many "contingency" spells for most sorcerers. If its big and nasty and blows crap up, thats right up their alley.
Wizards on the other hand, with the vast array of spells, can be more of a challenge...jeez, when I'm preparing spells today, do I really want the "Resiliant Sphere" spell, or should I go for another "nuke"?? I played a Transmuter in a campaign with a Sorcerer, and we had it covered. Part of the enjoyment was in coming up with useful applications of those unusual spells that I had prepared, while the Sorcerer was drawing the monster's ire with his continual bombardment of "evo fire!" spells. It was a great combo, and we pwned many encounters.
So, to sum up, seems that Wizzy's are great all around, outside the box type arcane casters, and Sorcerer's tend to be much more flash-bang oriented.
My 2cp.
Or the need to learn spells every day for magic users.
For thirty years of playing from AD&D, AD&D2, 3.0 to 3.5, there is one point (of rules ?) I have always found annoying if not completly silly, that's the need for magic users to learn their spells in advance every morning...
Agreed, the system bites. I solved this by applying some backwards logic.
Magic is in a constant state of flux. The spellbook is the Wizard's notebook of observations, etc. His daily meditation includes his making notes and otherwise keeping up with the current state of the Miasma. Failing to keep current increases the amount of mana required to achieve the same result (Think of it as a gummed up carburetor.). As I use a spell point system, the cost increases can easily become crippling. The Wizards love being able to dodge a day or two of study, and consider the costs as part of life.
As I said before, explanations are just words. Not games mechanisms. I have nothing against Jack Vance, in fact I enjoyed most of his novels, but a good idea in a novel doesn’t mean it will be a good game point. A little too specific for such a widely played game as D&D, no ? Let’s try my own explanation : The wizard as to concentrate and meditate to gather, or focus the power for the spells. So far no difference. Then in place of a “trigger”, let’s see the components of the spell as a way to direct, to shape this energy into the spell he wants. Not a worse point of view as others. Of course I am partial here.
I have once read a novella where scientists can shape pets for rich people, and a lady wants a Pegasus to ride flying to a party. The genetician said : I can’t do that. I can make you a horse that can fly, but its bones and muscles will be so light it won’t stand to carry you. A horse with wing able to fly you to a party, even on a short distance, will no more look like a horse. But I can make you a horse with wings. That can’t fly.
Still in D&D you can ride a flying Pegasus. It is not the real world, every explanation is viable. I can imagine reasons for a world where the bad guys are green and crawl, while the good ones are blue and fly, and wrap it in a marvelous package.About a spell point approach, I have once used it in a altered version of Runequest, and it works fine, but I don’t think my players will approve this kind of changes, which basically is rather the same than lifting the need to prepare spells. But it’s a good way.
Most, if not everybody seems to think wizard is the most powerful class when not to powerful. I think we have not the same notion of power, but let’s agree with that, as you are numerous to think so, and thus are probably right. But I plan that change for Pathfinder, where I have got the impression that the wizard is kind of “leveled down” ? Is it no true ?
And also, if this point is here in order to bring balance to the game, don’t you think it is a very...
The wizard is powerful because he can solve almost any situation with spells if he has the correct knowledge. With your idea he will be able to solve any situation. Why does he even need a party?
Rogue: I will unlock the door.
Wizard: I cast knock
Rogue or rogue: I can talk us into the party
Wizard: I cast suggestion or charm person
Druid: I can change into a small animal and fly onto the window sill to spy on the enemy
Wizard: I can just go invisible and teleport or fly since it's of a lower level than teleport
Melee guy: I will protect you while you cast spell.
Wizard: Go sit down, I can summon something to hold the line.
Druid or Cleric: I did not prepare spells for this situation
Wizard: You guys are losers. A real caster can cast any spells he knows anytime he wants.
Sorcerer: I can do that.
Wizard: (Making fun of the sorcerer) Oooh I can know 3 spells (ha ha ha). Us wizards can learn infinite amounts of spells, which reminds me why are you even in the party? Go over there and sit beside the fighter.
Power is not just about things you can do in combat. It is about how much you can do. As an example if I gave the fighter 8 skill points, and the ability to magical disable traps then why bother with a rogue.
...As I said before, explanations are just words. Not games mechanisms. I have nothing against Jack Vance, in fact I enjoyed most of his novels, but a good idea in a novel doesn’t mean it will be a good game point. A little too specific for such a widely played game as D&D, no ? Let’s try my own explanation : The wizard as to concentrate and meditate to gather, or focus the power for the spells. So far no difference. Then in place of a “trigger”, let’s see the components of the spell as a way to direct, to shape this energy into the spell he wants. Not a worse point of view as others. Of course I am partial here.
I have once read a novella where scientists can shape pets for rich people, and a lady wants a Pegasus to ride flying to a party. The genetician said : I can’t do that. I can make you a horse that can fly, but its bones and muscles will be so light it won’t stand to carry you. A horse with wing able to fly you to a party, even on a short distance, will no more look like a horse. But I can make you a horse with wings. That can’t fly.
Still in D&D you can ride a flying Pegasus. It is not the real world, every explanation is viable. I can imagine reasons for a world where the bad guys are green and crawl, while the good ones are blue and fly, and wrap it in a marvelous package.About a spell point approach, I have once used it in a altered version of Runequest, and it works fine, but I don’t think my players will approve this kind of changes, which basically is rather the same than lifting the need to prepare spells. But it’s a good way.
Most, if not everybody seems to think wizard is the most powerful class when not to powerful. I think we have not the same notion of power, but let’s agree with that, as you are numerous to think so, and thus are probably right. But I plan that change for Pathfinder, where I have got the impression that the wizard is kind of “leveled down” ? Is it no true ?
And also, if this point is here in order to bring balance to the game, don’t you
To the Wizard comment, as far as I know they can cast ONE spell that they know anytime they want, and the rest have to be made into scrolls. Which means he might as well fork them over to the sorcerer anyway.
Aside from that, the Wizard's main weakness is not having enough spells. If a wizard flubs a spell due to them making the save or a distraction he's usually out of luck. The sorcerer just shrugs and tries again. Pearls of Power are a good answer to this, but take a standard action to retrieve the slot. In general if you know exactly what you want you want a wizard, and if you don't know you have a sorcerer instead.
I liked the Shadowrun drain magic system myself, but there is no way to fit it into d&d that I am aware of.
Try here. The associated spell point system also allows some added versatility.
You don't need to fill your spell slots as a Wizard every day. Just leave a few open just in case.
Spont casting for a wizard is too much. As a Wizard player I think its too much. And what happens to the Sorcerer?
As I said before... Not games mechanisms...
Simple. For every day you have skipped your daily preparations, treat ALL spells as needing a level higher slot to cast.
I agree the use of the empty slots (PHB 177), which I don't know till now, along with the ability of the wizard to make scrolls render the need of such a change almost useless.
But to write the wizards won't need anybody if he had access to all his spell list seems a little bit excessive, except when you reach extravagant level I have never pesonnaly reached or mastered. How many times a wizard can cast knock, when a rogue can do it at will, the same applying to the fighter who has no limit in the number of hits he can deal, while the wizard can cast a limited number a destructive spells.
When I suggest this change, I also have in mind the druid the cleric, the paladin and other spellcaster. For the sorcerer he can still cast MORE spells. I think the point of how many spells is cast a day is often forgotten here. And I didn't intented to change that.
Everyone seems to have forgotten the poor 1st level wizard with his 2 spells a day, to focus on the 25th level archmage, who, it is true, don't need such an enhancement. After all he is probably already pocket full of wands, scrolls, potions, amulets and other magic items. But so are the others, no ? Or his the wizard the only scavenger ?
Three spells per day if he is a specialist :)
As many as you can scribe scolls. This bonus feat is a gem, use it often. My Mr Wizard spent a whole session casting off scrolls. Costs a bit of gold but thats the price you pay for being the most powerful member in the party. Chuckle.Seriously...
Memorise anything which needs a DC save or Feather Fall.
Scribe onto scrolls all your utility spells the ones that you need once in a blue moon but need it NOW!
Spacelard wrote: 'Scribe onto scrolls all your utility spells the ones that you need once in a blue moon but need it NOW!'
Possibly the best advice for a Wizard...ever!