I think it's safe to say that you're preaching to the choir.
[bubble bubble bubble]
Preach on, brother!
Was going to post something about the successful assassination of Anwar al alaki, but thought it deserved its own thread.
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Why not do both?
Nader, Paul, and Kucinich on occupy Wall Street.
My favorite quote (paraphrased)- People elect Republicans to decrease spending, and they spend more. They elect Democrats to end the wars, and they increase them. This is why people are angry.
Also, getting back to the Occupy Wall Street thing, have you scrolled through these videos/pictures? Man, there's some hot chicks!This has impelled me to get back involved in the socialist movement--if there's going to be, like, a million unemployed ex-campus radicals, I bet some of them would like to get it on with a communist shop steward in reasonably good physical shape!
Went to a socialist meeting last week and I met FIVE hot chicks! None of them have returned my calls, though...
And now that Occupy Wall Street has made it to Boston, maybe I can go bang some commie babes in a tent in Dewey Square this weekend!
I was pretty impressed by Occupy Wall Street's call for workers to go on strike and occupy the factories, and, it appears, so were the unions.
I cant believe there has not been more media coverage of Occupy Wall Street. Wait, yes I can believe it.
Back to the folly of government...Why exactly do people cheer for the death penalty again?
I find conservative Republican enthusiasm for the death penalty odd at times. Government can't keep the roads fixed, balance a budget, or maintain the infrastructure, but we should believe that they are competent to administer the death penalty with out error? Odd.
Also, getting back to the Occupy Wall Street thing, have you scrolled through these videos/pictures? Man, there's some hot chicks!This has impelled me to get back involved in the socialist movement--if there's going to be, like, a million unemployed ex-campus radicals, I bet some of them would like to get it on with a communist shop steward in reasonably good physical shape!
Went to a socialist meeting last week and I met FIVE hot chicks! None of them have returned my calls, though...
And now that Occupy Wall Street has made it to Boston, maybe I can go bang some commie babes in a tent in Dewey Square this weekend!
Pics?
Pics?
Also, getting back to the Occupy Wall Street thing, have you scrolled through these videos/pictures? Man, there's some hot chicks!This has impelled me to get back involved in the socialist movement--if there's going to be, like, a million unemployed ex-campus radicals, I bet some of them would like to get it on with a communist shop steward in reasonably good physical shape!
Went to a socialist meeting last week and I met FIVE hot chicks! None of them have returned my calls, though...
And now that Occupy Wall Street has made it to Boston, maybe I can go bang some commie babes in a tent in Dewey Square this weekend!
If you look hard, you'll find some strewn throughout my links in the Occupy Wall Street! thread.
That's where all the hot anti-government action is going on these days. Government Folly is, like, so last year.
I find conservative Republican enthusiasm for the death penalty odd at times. Government can't keep the roads fixed, balance a budget, or maintain the infrastructure, but we should believe that they are competent to administer the death penalty with out error? Odd.I cant believe there has not been more media coverage of Occupy Wall Street. Wait, yes I can believe it.
Back to the folly of government...Why exactly do people cheer for the death penalty again?
Because the conservatives that back the death penalty (and many other conservative policies) don't care about small government or government incompetence or whatever principles libertarians like to invoke. They care about keeping the bad people under control. If some are punished unfairly, that's okay. They were probably bad people anyway and it still sets the example.
Many I know consider it a matter of justice; some consider it a deterrence issue.
I just find it odd when people who agree with me that the judicial system is corrupt and incompetent think that same judicial system can be trusted with the death penalty.
BT, it's awesome to have you back!
I find conservative Republican enthusiasm for the death penalty odd at times. Government can't keep the roads fixed, balance a budget, or maintain the infrastructure, but we should believe that they are competent to administer the death penalty with out error? Odd.I cant believe there has not been more media coverage of Occupy Wall Street. Wait, yes I can believe it.
Back to the folly of government...Why exactly do people cheer for the death penalty again?
Because the conservatives that back the death penalty (and many other conservative policies) don't care about small government or government incompetence or whatever principles libertarians like to invoke. They care about keeping the bad people under control. If some are punished unfairly, that's okay. They were probably bad people anyway and it still sets the example.
Yea, I should have mentioned that it was a rhetorical question only used to set up the link. Damn you internet and your lack of tone and inflection! DDDAAAMMMNNN YYOOOUUU!
BT, it's awesome to have you back!
Thanks!
On of my scumbag senator's reply to Fast and Furious:
November 28, 2011
Dear Steve,
Thank you for contacting me regarding the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives' (ATF) "Fast and Furious" operation to track the passage of trafficked guns from the United States to Mexico. I appreciate that you took the time to share your thoughts on this important issue.
As you may know, the "Fast and Furious" operation authorized the sale of thousands of firearms to suspected traffickers, who then crossed the U.S.-Mexico border and sold the guns to members of drug cartels in Mexico. The goal of the operation was to use these sales to dismantle these trafficking routes and prosecute those involved, but it is clear that the ATF lost track of several of these weapons that ultimately landed in the hands of members of dangerous drug cartels. The Department of Justice Inspector General, the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate are conducting inquiries into who is responsible for this operation and its consequences. I support these investigations in order to discover the truth about the serious allegations leveled against those who authorized this operation. Rest assured I will keep your concerns in mind as these inquiries move forward and more information becomes known.
I will continue to listen closely to what you and other Coloradans have to say about matters before Congress, the concerns of our communities, and the issues facing Colorado and the nation. My job is not about merely supporting or opposing legislation; it is also about bridging the divide that has paralyzed our nation's politics. For more information about my positions and to learn how my office can assist you, please visit my website at www.markudall.senate.gov.
Warm regards,
Signature
Mark Udall
U.S. Senator, Colorado
Doesn't seem particularly scumbaggy. What don't you like about the guy?
Doesn't seem particularly scumbaggy. What don't you like about the guy?
I dislike politicians in general and my federal rep and senators in particular, but brushing off hundreds of civilian deaths and thousands of "misplaced" fire arms like it's a rounding error just pisses me off even more.
Of course this is basically what all politicians do, but I still find it detestable.
I dislike politicians in general and my federal rep and senators in particular, but brushing off hundreds of civilian deaths and thousands of "misplaced" fire arms like it's a rounding error just pisses me off even more.
Of course this is basically what all politicians do, but I still find it detestable.
Ever read a press release? It isn't just politicians who do it...
Ever read a press release? It isn't just politicians who do it...I dislike politicians in general and my federal rep and senators in particular, but brushing off hundreds of civilian deaths and thousands of "misplaced" fire arms like it's a rounding error just pisses me off even more.
Of course this is basically what all politicians do, but I still find it detestable.
True enough.
Though let me go on record as saying that the crackdown on OWS was despicable, if not outright criminal. The very epitome of government folly, though done at the behest of corporations. If there is a theme in this thread it seems to be that government and corporations acting in concert -- or at least one acting with the tacit approval of the other -- are usually behind the worst abuses.
Though let me go on record as saying that the crackdown on OWS was despicable, if not outright criminal. The very epitome of government folly, though done at the behest of corporations. If there is a theme in this thread it seems to be that government and corporations acting in concert -- or at least one acting with the tacit approval of the other -- are usually behind the worst abuses.
I agree again, which is a major reason that I have issues with the idea that more powerful government is the solution to more powerful and abusive corporations.
I may add more when I'm more sober and less melancholy.
Fast and furious probably sounded like a good idea. At some point though, the lower down person said "we're going to track the guns" and the higher ups were thinking James Bond Style GPS tracking devices and weren't told that "tracking" meant "we'll pick them up off of some dead bodies after they die in a shootout with mexican police or each other"
So yes, people are following the cardinal rule of government work and are covering their own rears, obscuring where exactly that point was.
Fast and furious probably sounded like a good idea. At some point though, the lower down person said "we're going to track the guns" and the higher ups were thinking James Bond Style GPS tracking devices and weren't told that "tracking" meant "we'll pick them up off of some dead bodies after they die in a shootout with mexican police or each other"
So yes, people are following the cardinal rule of government work and are covering their own rears, obscuring where exactly that point was.
How was this supposed to disrupt gun running or result in prosecutions again?
We spent tens of millions of dollars; hundreds of Mexican civilians are dead, and there hasn't been a single conviction?
How was this supposed to have been a good idea at some point? I'm having trouble picturing it.
Hey, BT, so:
In the past week or so we have both gotten comments favorited for saying that we were going to exercize restraint and not post while inebriated. Is this a step forward for the boards, you think, or a step back?
Fast and furious probably sounded like a good idea. At some point though, the lower down person said "we're going to track the guns" and the higher ups were thinking James Bond Style GPS tracking devices and weren't told that "tracking" meant "we'll pick them up off of some dead bodies after they die in a shootout with mexican police or each other"
So yes, people are following the cardinal rule of government work and are covering their own rears, obscuring where exactly that point was.
How was this supposed to disrupt gun running or result in prosecutions again?
We spent tens of millions of dollars; hundreds of Mexican civilians are dead, and there hasn't been a single conviction?
How was this supposed to have been a good idea at some point? I'm having trouble picturing it.
because somewhere along the line, someone messed up.
Hey, BT, so:
In the past week or so we have both gotten comments favorited for saying that we were going to exercize restraint and not post while inebriated. Is this a step forward for the boards, you think, or a step back?
LOL! I'm not sure.
I'm a pretty fun drunk in person, but I get crotchety posting in political threads when I'm drunk.
How was this supposed to disrupt gun running or result in prosecutions again?
Let people buy the guns. The James bond tracker shows you where the guns are going. You wait till said guns stop for a bit, you then watch that location.
How was this supposed to disrupt gun running or result in prosecutions again?Let people buy the guns. The James bond tracker shows you where the guns are going. You wait till said guns stop for a bit, you then watch that location.
Yet they evidently failed to even make token efforts to track the firearms. It sure looks like the only purpose this program actually served was to sell firearms to cartels and other criminals. I just can't see how this program ever honestly intended to do any good. This really seems like it goes beyond the normal government stupidity and corruption.
Fast and furious probably sounded like a good idea. At some point though, the lower down person said "we're going to track the guns" and the higher ups were thinking James Bond Style GPS tracking devices and weren't told that "tracking" meant "we'll pick them up off of some dead bodies after they die in a shootout with mexican police or each other"
So yes, people are following the cardinal rule of government work and are covering their own rears, obscuring where exactly that point was.
How was this supposed to disrupt gun running or result in prosecutions again?
We spent tens of millions of dollars; hundreds of Mexican civilians are dead, and there hasn't been a single conviction?
How was this supposed to have been a good idea at some point? I'm having trouble picturing it.
It's really fairly standard law enforcement practice. Feed the little fish, let them lead you to the big ones.
This was done a huge scale apparently, but then you don't get to the big fish if you're only a small dealer.Yeah, it went wrong. Though I'd hesitant to just blame the deaths on the program. It's not like the cartels had any real trouble getting guns without Fast and Furious.
I'm certainly familiar with these approaches in executing the war on drugs, but there is basically no way to prosecute transfers beyond the straw purchase (which ATF facilitated) without any tracking or witnesses.
Did the underpants gnomes come up with this idea?
I'm certainly familiar with these approaches in executing the war on drugs, but there is basically no way to prosecute transfers beyond the straw purchase (which ATF facilitated) without any tracking or witnesses.
In theory...
Us: Hey Mexico, you have a bunch of heavily armed drug cartels at 208 Mainstreet Los Pablos.
Mexico: Ok, thanks amigo! *drives over, knocks on the door, someone sees a gun, arrests of the trafficers and shooting of the people holding the guns commences.
In practice
Us: Hey Mexico, you have a bunch of heavily armed drug cartels at 208 Mainstreet Los Pablos.
Mexico: Ok, thanks amigo! *click. Picks up phone* "Hey guys, they're watching that gun store, next time use a different one. And i want a bonus."
I'm certainly familiar with these approaches in executing the war on drugs, but there is basically no way to prosecute transfers beyond the straw purchase (which ATF facilitated) without any tracking or witnesses.In theory...
Us: Hey Mexico, you have a bunch of heavily armed drug cartels at 208 Mainstreet Los Pablos.
Mexico: Ok, thanks amigo! *drives over, knocks on the door, someone sees a gun, arrests of the trafficers and shooting of the people holding the guns commences.
In practice
Us: Hey Mexico, you have a bunch of heavily armed drug cartels at 208 Mainstreet Los Pablos.
Mexico: Ok, thanks amigo! *click. Picks up phone* "Hey guys, they're watching that gun store, next time use a different one. And i want a bonus."
The State dept. and the Justice dept concealed this operation from the Mexican government, and they made no effort to track the weapons.
What police state?
The State dept. and the Justice dept concealed this operation from the Mexican government, and they made no effort to track the weapons
The tracking is where things went from an insane idea that never should have left the ground to a plausible plan: there was a serious failure to communicate at some point.
The State dept. and the Justice dept concealed this operation from the Mexican government, and they made no effort to track the weaponsThe tracking is where things went from an insane idea that never should have left the ground to a plausible plan: there was a serious failure to communicate at some point.
What tracking?
There was no tracking that I am aware of. Seriously.
Nov 30 2011? wow!
No, no, he gets sloppy kisses and wild huzzahs!
Huzzah! Huzzah! Huzzah!
Nov 30 2011? wow!
NDAA, PIPA(SOPA v2.0), Enemy Expatriation Act, Peeing on corpses. GO!
Wrongfully imprisoned man awarded $25 million in damages
I post this more for the last paragraph even though the wrongful conviction and 16 years in prison is troubling.
Wrongfully imprisoned man awarded $25 million in damages
I post this more for the last paragraph even though the wrongful conviction and 16 years in prison is troubling.
This could show the old saying "I'm sure he was guilty of something", ie that he was a bad person who deserved jail whether or not he committed the specific crime he was convicted of.
Or it could show the toxic effects of 16 years in prison and of trying to negotiate the real world afterwards.
I have no idea what the kid was like before he went into (presumably) maximum security as a 16 year old, but I can't imagine him coming out of that very well adjusted.
Sadly the huge settlement isn't likely to help his drug problems any either.
Ok.. the guy had drugs. So what? Charlie sheen has drugs on him all the time. If he gives blood, the red cross is charged with intent to sell from the sheer volume of illegal substances in the blood.
Ok.. the guy had drugs. So what? Charlie sheen has drugs on him all the time. If he gives blood, the red cross is charged with intent to sell from the sheer volume of illegal substances in the blood.
LOL!
I think we all know where I stand on the War on Drugs.
I have no idea what the kid was like before he went into (presumably) maximum security as a 16 year old, but I can't imagine him coming out of that very well adjusted.Sadly the huge settlement isn't likely to help his drug problems any either.
Assuming he ever actually gets the money, since it's sure to be appealed and delayed at least, it'll certainly help with his drug problem. Rich people are very rarely convicted of drug offenses. He could afford a treatment program if he wanted it. Or he could just keep using quietly without having to rob or sell to feed the habit.
It's all much easier than if you're poor.
All true.
My point is more that a lot of free time, a lot of money, and a substance abuse problem can be a really bad combination.
I'm sure the government will drag any settlement out as long as possible to leverage him into a lesser settlement.
I've no problem with this. Wrongful convictions are just that -wrongful. The parties involved should pay for it, although I'm sure the monies will be reduced substantially.