Kindle died today


Technology

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Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

So I've been reading A LOT of tech blogs and watching a few podcasts.. everyone seems to agree that the kindle is dead.

What do you guys think? I've played with it, two of my buddys got it. I'm really tempted to get one myself.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

For those that are just interested in a Electronic reading device, kindle is still the way to go, much easier on the eyes, and the battery life is allot longer. People who buy the iPad just for reading will be very disappointed in the comparable battery life and the limits of length of time of reading due to eye strain. That alone should keep the kindle alive for a long time yet.

That said, those interested in the iPad for its, strengths, Apps, portability for short reading *Ie RPG gaming* and the many other things it can do, will be amazed with the device. That is where my interests lie.

I have never had any interest in the kindle, did not need a electronic reading Device, I still don't so when I buy a Ipad it will have nothing to do with that.

Scarab Sages

When the iPad is reasonably priced, like $200, I will jump on that. Otherwise it's not worth it for the locked-in environment and the monthly $30+ charge. I want to use my device the way I want, not the way Apple wants.
I am a big Apple/Mac geek but no iPad.

I know two people who have a Kindle and they love it. They use for reading all kinds of eBooks. One guy hacked it to read a bunch of non-amazon formats. I would like to actually use one before I buy it, but that has been difficult.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Fray, if you're a big Apple geek then you know the iPad will be "locked-in" about as long as the iPhone was, if not less because it's the same OS. If Apple has a million apps, there are 2 million apps that aren't Apple approved.

As for the $30 charge, that's never going to go away, it's how they subsidize the cost of making iPads, just like the iPhone.

In any case, I like many people us PCs for many hours a day. I go to a job that has me infront of a LCD too. If this eye strain people talk about really exists, it doesn't bother me.

Silver Crusade

You people and your fancy technology.

I'll be over here with my good ol' fashioned books until it's time to go build another barn or churn some more butter.

Liberty's Edge

SirUrza wrote:

Fray, if you're a big Apple geek then you know the iPad will be "locked-in" about as long as the iPhone was, if not less because it's the same OS. If Apple has a million apps, there are 2 million apps that aren't Apple approved.

As for the $30 charge, that's never going to go away, it's how they subsidize the cost of making iPads, just like the iPhone.

In any case, I like many people us PCs for many hours a day. I go to a job that has me infront of a LCD too. If this eye strain people talk about really exists, it doesn't bother me.

The iPad is not subsidized.

The WiFi-only model (out today) has no 3G capability.

The WiFi + 3G model (out later this month) has a 3G radio wire and a micro SIM.

In order to use the 3G capability with the included AT&T Micro SIM you must purchase one of two data plans: 250 MB for $15, or Unlimited for $30.

This is not a subscription, which means it is month-to-month. There is no contract.

Currently, only AT&T uses a Micro SIM for data, but the iPad is not locked, which means any carrier that wants to can get in on the game.

Scarab Sages

Andrew, it's unlocked only in regards to AT&T services. Not that there is anyone able to offer the service with the device anyways, which makes it 'locked' again. When I mentioned locked-in I was talking about how you can only use programs that Apple approves of on it and only the way they want you to use it. I still want to find out if I can use my paizo pdf's on it or my other eBooks that I have not bought from Apple.

Urza, I agree with the no eye strain thing. (Though that's in theory since I haven't tried it yet.) ;) Yeah, I bet it will be jail-broken by Monday. I would rather have the device open in the first place, that all.

If I had a spare $800, I'd get one just for the giggles. I think it's too expensive for what it does. But that's just me. (well, maybe there are a *few* others out there that feel that way too...) :]

Liberty's Edge

fray wrote:
...I still want to find out if I can use my paizo pdf's on it or my other eBooks that I have not bought from Apple...

There are already several advanced PDF reader apps available for iPad, not to mention that it reads PDFs natively. Also, Amazon released a Kindle app for iPad which displays your already-purchased Kindle books in full-color (and I find it ironic that, to me, the iPad Kindle looks and responds better than the Kindle Kindle!). Also, there's a free software suite you can download to your computer that will convert your non-EPUB ebooks to EPUB, which would make them readable through Apple's iBooks app.

Also, there's nothing stopping Verizon or Sprint or anyone else from marketing a Micro SIM and accompanying data plan, which you could then use in the iPad. Several other countries already have this in the works. Korea, for example, will be offering Micro SIMs for iPad through SK Telecom and KT, and for (Won) 9,500 (or about $10 a month), unlimited transfer, beginning in June.

As to being able to use the iPad in ways for which it wasn't designed or installing and using unapproved apps--I unlocked my iPhone for a while, but I quickly realized why it was a bad idea: my phone just didn't work well once I had circumvented its design parameters. Issues I experienced: extreme battery drain; timing fluctuations; random crashes; loss of data; random resets; degraded WiFi; poor signal lock; overheating; inexplicably deleted/missing apps; random calendar synchs; random email upload/download; random ability to read MS Office docs; and many more.

In the end, I'd rather the device work beautifully all the time, than allow me to use Fallout 3 icons and Star Wars ringtones.

Dark Archive

Mikaze wrote:

You people and your fancy technology.

I'll be over here with my good ol' fashioned books until it's time to go build another barn or churn some more butter.

+1


Mikaze wrote:

You people and your fancy technology.

I'll be over here with my good ol' fashioned books until it's time to go build another barn or churn some more butter.

Mmmmm...butter....something-something


My partner has had her Kindle for a couple of months now and loves it. She can carry around a virtual library with her, which is great for her because she's reading constantly. Plus, when the screen went out after a sharp rap on a counter a few weeks ago, it only took one short phone call and the company had a brand new one shipped to her in three days. It doesn't work real well with higher end PDF files converted to Kindle format, (like the PF Core Rules,) but other than that she's very happy with it.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Andrew Turner wrote:
fray wrote:
...I still want to find out if I can use my paizo pdf's on it or my other eBooks that I have not bought from Apple...
There are already several advanced PDF reader apps available for iPad, not to mention that it reads PDFs natively.

*nods*

You can indeed! GoodReader is probably the best of the PDF readers I've seen.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I still say the device is not meant to replace the kindle, It does so much more, it is closer to capability to a netbook then the Kindle.

You don't buy the iPad just to read epubs, you buy it to also read email, surf the web, have your whole collection of Paizo PDFs at the table with you, as a dice roller, have the Pathfinder Society Scenario on it, have your character on it.

I am hoping we will see character Gen Apps in the Future, and Many other useful RPG apps that the iPad is perfect for, which the Kindle can't do at all, because the Kindle is just a Epub reader.

Edit: You can also watch HD videos on the iPad.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Yes but limited functionality and at a near similar price point many people are getting rid of their Kindles for the iPad. When you have the tech savvy crowd abandoning the Kindle for a more rounded device, you lose the crowd that would recommend the Kindle.

If the Kindle wants to stick around, it needs to drop it's price dramatically.


I probably won't ever buy either one.

I dislike how Apple does business. "Choose Apple! Then all your other choices have been made FOR you."

And after the wireless deletes that hit the Kindle, I prefer something where the copyright lawyers will have to come to my house and physically take it away.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

The iPad solves the one problem I had with the iPhone, having a tiny keyboard I usually fat-fingered.

My only complaint at the moment is that loading my PDFs onto it is a bit of a hassle. But beyond that, I can totally see having it while I'm DMing and needing to reference something, and taking it to bed with me after shutting down my Macbook.

Liberty's Edge

TriOmegaZero wrote:

The iPad solves the one problem I had with the iPhone, having a tiny keyboard I usually fat-fingered.

My only complaint at the moment is that loading my PDFs onto it is a bit of a hassle. But beyond that, I can totally see having it while I'm DMing and needing to reference something, and taking it to bed with me after shutting down my Macbook.

The couple guys I know who picked up the iPad yesterday aren't Paizonians, so they didn't have any graphics-intense PDFs. FMs and ARs look great, load fast, and transition smoothly, but they're mostly text and simple B&W illustrations.

What kind of latency, etc. did you notice with Paizo PDFs? Did you try any of the Reader apps?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I uploaded the Core Rulebook via Goodreader and am finding it to have about a 5 second delay on page turns, be it next page or page jump. iBooks and iKindle don't let you put PDFs up at all, so I had to buy Goodreader, and the upload scheme is not layman-friendly, as it requires navigating to the iPad through the IP address and uploading inbrowser. Hopefully that will be smoothed in the future. iBooks is pretty good for the epubs however. I haven't messed with much else, but I'm enjoying it so far. Like I said, the touch keyboard is much better with more real estate to work with. I will have to remember to upload my military manuals, thanks for the idea. That'll give the guys at work a kick.


I've loaded a few PDFs into my iPad using GoodReader. It's pretty nice so far, though I've noticed some text corruption in the section introductions of Pathfinder 31's "Stolen Land". I'll see if I can upload some images later. I was going to chalk it up to the usual Preview vs. Adobe Reader issues, but I believe GoodReader actually rolls their own PDF rendering engine rather than relying on Apple's native engine, so this one may not be Apple's problem to solve. There are also some color rendering issues I've seen - the art in the Eclipse Phase PDF is incredibly dark as compared to the displayed artwork on my Macbook Pro. None of it is a deal breaker, though.

Really, I'm crossing my fingers that OS 4 will bring with it improved native PDF support, either incorporated into iBooks or as Preview for iPad. Pretty nice so far though - apart from the Pathfinder rendering issues, the PDFs are incredibly legible in portrait display.

Edit: here is a sample of the corrupted text in Pathfinder 31. And TriOmega - I haven't tried it yet, but i am told you can add PDFs to GoodReader in iTunes and sync them to the iPad without gong through the whole file sharing rigamarole.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Really? I'll have to look harder. I haven't figured out how to mess with Goodreader in iTunes, but then I'm new to this whole Mac thing anyway.

Also, SpellbookMaster iPhone app, 8 bucks for instant searchable 3.5 spell descriptions. Totally worth it.


Dr. Pweent wrote:
Edit: here is a sample of the corrupted text in Pathfinder 31. And TriOmega - I haven't tried it yet, but i am told you can add PDFs to GoodReader in iTunes and sync them to the iPad without gong through the whole file sharing rigamarole.

That isn't text corruption. If you look real close, that is the text being overlapped with itself. I don't have a clue why that would even happen, it is as if the reader is treating each word as an individual image and trying to resize everything to fit. And failing, obviously.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Don't believe it. The kindle isn't going anywhere. I've had mine for more than a year and just bought one for my daughter. I don't really use it for my pdfs and I'm not sure I would ever want to. For me, the biggest draw is the ease on the eyes. The only downside that I've found is that sometimes a book will have a lot of typos. It doesn't happen very often, but when it does, it's frustrating.

Liberty's Edge

A feature I like in Kindle-for-iPhone/iPad (though not available in Kindle-for-Mac) is reverse-color. I have my iPhone set to white-on-black, which allows me to read on my phone for hours, literally (I recently read Let the Right One In on a flight from Kansas to Alaska, all on my iPhone, white font on black background). The same feature is available with Kindle-for-iPad, and it makes a huge difference, especially in the bed at night.

Sovereign Court

TriOmegaZero wrote:

The iPad solves the one problem I had with the iPhone, having a tiny keyboard I usually fat-fingered.

My only complaint at the moment is that loading my PDFs onto it is a bit of a hassle. But beyond that, I can totally see having it while I'm DMing and needing to reference something, and taking it to bed with me after shutting down my Macbook.

I picked up Readdle for iPad and discovered to my amazement that it can log into paizo.com through its internal browser and download the personalized PDF files from my paizo downloads. I thought the zip files would be a problem but Readdle knows how to extract them. Even easier than loading them onto my laptop because I only needed one app for everything.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Thanks for the tip!

Sovereign Court

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Thanks for the tip!

Ooh, just realized Readdle can play music files too. They keep playing in the background if you switch from the mp3 to a PDF. Time to crack out those Dragon playlists.


SirUrza wrote:
So I've been reading A LOT of tech blogs and watching a few podcasts.. everyone seems to agree that the kindle is dead.

Would these be the same sources that said MS's HD would beat Blu-Ray in the 'HD War'?

:)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
stormraven wrote:
SirUrza wrote:
So I've been reading A LOT of tech blogs and watching a few podcasts.. everyone seems to agree that the kindle is dead.

Would these be the same sources that said MS's HD would beat Blu-Ray in the 'HD War'?

:)

Microsoft didn't make HDDVDs. They didn't develop them. They weren't even manufacturer of the HDDVD for the xb360. HDDVDs were Toshiba, NEC, and Sanyo's baby.

If Microsoft wanted HDDVD to win, they would have pushed it into Windows. They didn't want it to win, they wanted HDDVD and Blueray to slug it out and draw out the format wars. And it worked, people discovered something they new all along, that downloading and streaming movies was better then buying movies on a disc. :P

I know tons of people who download movies via the 360 and PS3 stores, or just stream via Netflix.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
SirUrza wrote:

I know tons of people who download movies via the 360 and PS3 stores, or just stream via Netflix.

I do it by Itunes, but I will say this, Blu-Ray quality is still better then what they are offering through streaming and downloads. I buy Blu-ray for those movies where the better quality would make the difference, like high special effects movies.


SirUrza wrote:
stormraven wrote:
SirUrza wrote:
So I've been reading A LOT of tech blogs and watching a few podcasts.. everyone seems to agree that the kindle is dead.

Would these be the same sources that said MS's HD would beat Blu-Ray in the 'HD War'?

:)

Microsoft didn't make HDDVDs. They didn't develop them. They weren't even manufacturer of the HDDVD for the xb360. HDDVDs were Toshiba, NEC, and Sanyo's baby.

If Microsoft wanted HDDVD to win, they would have pushed it into Windows. They didn't want it to win, they wanted HDDVD and Blueray to slug it out and draw out the format wars. And it worked, people discovered something they new all along, that downloading and streaming movies was better then buying movies on a disc. :P

I know tons of people who download movies via the 360 and PS3 stores, or just stream via Netflix.

Add one more. I've gone totally digital, most music and movies I buy are digital downloads and the few CD's and DVD's I get I copy and then and resell them afterwards. I keep backup copies on a portable HD and online so if I have a system crash I won’t loose anything.

Also I'll never buy an iPad, I'm waiting for the Notion Ink powered by Android.

Sovereign Court

Xabulba wrote:


Also I'll never buy an iPad, I'm waiting for the Notion Ink powered by Android.

This is one of the things that I sort of like about the iPad. Unlike the format wars(which many people are falsely comparing iPad vs X device to), what we're seeing now is new niche in media management. Some people want to claim that one device will destroy the other, but that winner takes all mentality is part of what eroded the market to it's current sad state where almost every computer is virtually interchangeable. Instead of competing to duplicate the iPad, companies are competing to create their own devices for the niche to the good of us all. I consider owning an iPad a little like owning the first TV. In the end, it's not going to be the only tablet ever made and it may not even be my favorite when the real competition starts, but it will always have a place in my heart because it was the first.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Dragnmoon wrote:
SirUrza wrote:

I know tons of people who download movies via the 360 and PS3 stores, or just stream via Netflix.

I do it by Itunes, but I will say this, Blu-Ray quality is still better then what they are offering through streaming and downloads. I buy Blu-ray for those movies where the better quality would make the difference, like high special effects movies.

Exactly, but you certainly wouldn't buy a comedy on blue ray. Nor would you buy a drama on blue ray. Once upon a time your only choice was to buy them on DVD (and before that, vhs.)

Liberty's Edge

Dragnmoon wrote:

I know tons of people who download movies via the 360 and PS3 stores, or just stream via Netflix.

I do it by Itunes, but I will say this, Blu-Ray quality is still better then what they are offering through streaming and downloads. I buy Blu-ray for those movies where the better quality would make the difference, like high special effects movies.

SirUrza wrote:


Exactly, but you certainly wouldn't buy a comedy on blue ray. Nor would you buy a drama on blue ray. Once upon a time your only choice was to buy them on DVD (and before that, vhs.)

You're right, I wouldn't...but Spousal Unit 001 just bought The Proposal, staring Sandra Bullock and some other person...in Blu-Ray...deliberately. So, some people will... :-(

Grand Lodge

fray wrote:

Andrew, it's unlocked only in regards to AT&T services. Not that there is anyone able to offer the service with the device anyways, which makes it 'locked' again. When I mentioned locked-in I was talking about how you can only use programs that Apple approves of on it and only the way they want you to use it. I still want to find out if I can use my paizo pdf's on it or my other eBooks that I have not bought from Apple.

Urza, I agree with the no eye strain thing. (Though that's in theory since I haven't tried it yet.) ;) Yeah, I bet it will be jail-broken by Monday. I would rather have the device open in the first place, that all.

If I had a spare $800, I'd get one just for the giggles. I think it's too expensive for what it does. But that's just me. (well, maybe there are a *few* others out there that feel that way too...) :]

I use Paizo PDFs on my iPhone already, so I think the iPad is just fine with Paizo PDFs

Eyes Strain... non-existent... I use computers for hours a day, my wife works with computers, comes home and reads for HOURS and HOURS and HOURS on the computer with no problem. Eye Strain is a myth used by Kindle and other such devices to give them and artificial edge.

Price wise... iPad $499 and can do other things besides just a reader (ideal for gaming situations- I have used my iPhone and LOVE it and would KILL to use the iPad for my RPGs)... Kindle at $200 and ONLY can be used as a reader- grayscale no pretty pictures please! When Kindle comes down to about $25 I will consider one as a door stop.

Also price wise... as far as too expensive for what it does... MOST people with PCs do not come CLOSE to using the capabilities it has. The vast majority of users browse the web, check email, Facebook and MySpace, store pictures and music and pretty much that is about it. The iPad is targeted at the vast majority of PC users. It is designed to do exactly what they want. And it has the added value that it is usable. That is, the user is not tied and bound to a desk anymore. You no longer have to have a part of your house set aside JUST to browse the web and play on You Tube. You actually can carry it to the bathroom and be COMFORTABLE with it! *GASP* Ahem... they may need SPECIAL covers for some teen age boys, if you follow my drift.

As for Apple approved Apps only? Seriously? You mean the THOUSANDS of apps available on the web that are not through iTunes don't actually work? Funny they seem to work on my iPhone.

Neither the iPhone nor the iPad is "locked" by any stretch of the imagination. I know people use iPhones with Verizon, Sprint etc. iPad is even easier to use, and I PROMISE you, other carriers WILL offer services (otherwise they are stupid and everyone should dump their stock right away as they obviously lack any intelligence at all and SHOULD go bankrupt).

For the money... I would gladly pay $499 for a computer that my wife can use anywhere anytime the way she wants to, rather than pay another $1,000 for a crappy clunker ties her down to one location for the duration. Seriously, ever try to work from a recipe from simplyrecipes.com while carrying your computer, monitor and keyboard around the kitchen? NIGHTMARE!

The Exchange

SirUrza wrote:

So I've been reading A LOT of tech blogs and watching a few podcasts.. everyone seems to agree that the kindle is dead.

What do you guys think? I've played with it, two of my buddys got it. I'm really tempted to get one myself.

Kindle was dead the instant they restricted the ability of Authors to submit works to US Oriented Authors. You need to have a US Tax file number and US Company name to publish for it.

Grand Lodge

yellowdingo wrote:
SirUrza wrote:

So I've been reading A LOT of tech blogs and watching a few podcasts.. everyone seems to agree that the kindle is dead.

What do you guys think? I've played with it, two of my buddys got it. I'm really tempted to get one myself.

Kindle was dead the instant they restricted the ability of Authors to submit works to US Oriented Authors. You need to have a US Tax file number and US Company name to publish for it.

well that is just STUPID!

sorry but it really is.


Krome wrote:
Neither the iPhone nor the iPad is "locked" by any stretch of the imagination. I know people use iPhones with Verizon, Sprint etc. iPad is even easier to use, and I PROMISE you, other carriers WILL offer services (otherwise they are stupid and everyone should dump their stock right away as they obviously lack any intelligence at all and SHOULD go bankrupt).

Slightly off-topic, but I'd love to see an actual example of this. Cellular services aren't exactly my forte, but I thought that the CDMA system that Verizon and Sprint use wasn't compatible with the GSM system that AT&T uses.

Does the iPhone natively have the extra electronics built-in to it so that it can be activated on the Verizon or Sprint service? There's talk of Verizon releasing an iPhone later this year, but I was under the assumption that it's different hardware than the AT&T version.


SirUrza wrote:

So I've been reading A LOT of tech blogs and watching a few podcasts.. everyone seems to agree that the kindle is dead.

What do you guys think? I've played with it, two of my buddys got it. I'm really tempted to get one myself.

Penny Arcade disagrees with you thesis.

That said, the .azw format will, eventually, cripple the Kindle. It's all about .epub and .pdf

Dark Archive

Krome wrote:
(otherwise they are stupid and everyone should dump their stock right away as they obviously lack any intelligence at all and SHOULD go bankrupt).

You know ... you are obviously a big supporter of the Apple lifestyle, which is fine, and while your arguements were somewhat compelling, this just smacks of zealotry.

The iPad has a lot of reasons why a consumer might not buy one, including those of us who see a more compelling case in full OS tablets running Linux or Windows.


The kindle died before I ever bought one.

What they give to you, they can take away. If they make a mistake selling something to you they simply delete it from your kindle.

No. Thank. You. Their screw up? Not my problem.

No, I didn't make it up.

from MSNBC. *(i had a link from CNN but it kept directing me elsewhere, and I don't much care for that)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32014285/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gad gets/#storyContinued

If that link doesn't work just go to MSNBC's website and use Kindle 1984 for the search term.

-S


Selgard wrote:

The kindle died before I ever bought one.

What they give to you, they can take away. If they make a mistake selling something to you they simply delete it from your kindle.

No. Thank. You. Their screw up? Not my problem.

No, I didn't make it up.

from MSNBC. *(i had a link from CNN but it kept directing me elsewhere, and I don't much care for that)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32014285/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gad gets/#storyContinued

If that link doesn't work just go to MSNBC's website and use Kindle 1984 for the search term.

-S

And apps disappearing from iPods don’t count?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Brian E. Harris wrote:
Krome wrote:
Neither the iPhone nor the iPad is "locked" by any stretch of the imagination. I know people use iPhones with Verizon, Sprint etc. iPad is even easier to use, and I PROMISE you, other carriers WILL offer services (otherwise they are stupid and everyone should dump their stock right away as they obviously lack any intelligence at all and SHOULD go bankrupt).

Slightly off-topic, but I'd love to see an actual example of this. Cellular services aren't exactly my forte, but I thought that the CDMA system that Verizon and Sprint use wasn't compatible with the GSM system that AT&T uses.

Does the iPhone natively have the extra electronics built-in to it so that it can be activated on the Verizon or Sprint service? There's talk of Verizon releasing an iPhone later this year, but I was under the assumption that it's different hardware than the AT&T version.

I am not usre about Sprint, But I know for Sure that the current iPhones and iPad can not work with Verizon network, there are rumors that future iPhones will be able to, but I have heard nothing about the iPad.


I don't use ipods either.

I have this really old fashioned thing called..

books.

If a book store makes a mistake, they better bring a SWAT team if they plan to repossess a book I bought. Their mistake is not my problem.

Any book I store on electronic media is stored in such fashion as to eliminate their ability to delete it for me. When I buy it, its mine.

Sure, a normal ole PDA may not be "the fad" but.. whats on it is mine, and stays mine, once paid for.

-S

Grand Lodge

VagrantWhisper wrote:
Krome wrote:
(otherwise they are stupid and everyone should dump their stock right away as they obviously lack any intelligence at all and SHOULD go bankrupt).

You know ... you are obviously a big supporter of the Apple lifestyle, which is fine, and while your arguements were somewhat compelling, this just smacks of zealotry.

The iPad has a lot of reasons why a consumer might not buy one, including those of us who see a more compelling case in full OS tablets running Linux or Windows.

lol because even if a LOT and LOT of users do not buy one a LOT and LOT of users WILL. You have a ready and willing group of buyers just begging for you to support their product and if you decide that you just don't want to tap into the added revenue that would be generated then it seems to me that the executives are just plain idiotic.

Let me try from this point of view... Paizo decides to publish Pathfinder rules and the Golarion world book. Then decides it does not want to support them any more... pretty dumb. Using 3PP to be more accurate... Paizo decides to extend the OGL to its Pathfinder game. A major 3PP looks at the market and sees there is demand for products that they specialize in. They decide they would rather publish comic strips instead...

By the way just in all fairness! The iPad is NOT the only tablet computer to hit the market in this new age of tablets. HP has a real nice one, and I have seen a coupe of others as well (European companies I believe). It's not so much that the iPad is THE tablet of the future, I think this TYPE of tablet is the future. :)

Also for the sake of fairness... the HP tablet has a USB port AND a webcam!

Grand Lodge

There are hacks to "unlock" the iPhone to be compatible with other networks. The phone does NOT work with other networks right out of the box. How do the hacks work? No idea. Not worth it to me to risk ruining my phone (and voiding warranties). From what I have read there is some software modifications and some hardware changes that have to be made. I'm not THAT much of a techie so I don't follow the hacks that closely.

The iPad is not "locked" at all lie the iPhone. The system is supported by AT&T but any company can adopt the methods needed to support the iPad. What does that entail? No idea. :) But in the announcement they made it clear that any company would have the ability to support the iPad.

For Apps disappearing on the iPod/iPhone... are they still in your iTunes? Just curious. I haven't had that problem (that I know of). But it is something for me to keep an eye on.

Grand Lodge

VagrantWhisper wrote:
Krome wrote:
(otherwise they are stupid and everyone should dump their stock right away as they obviously lack any intelligence at all and SHOULD go bankrupt).
You know ... you are obviously a big supporter of the Apple lifestyle, which is fine, and while your arguements were somewhat compelling, this just smacks of zealotry.

BTW, I just wanted to make a quick comment on the supporter of Apple lifestyle part :)

I'm NOT an Apple fanboy. However, I recognize good design and innovation when I see it. Apple focuses on how a product is to be used then makes a product to fit that need.

From a design point, Apple has long been a leader in design. Looking at timelines of computers you will see that Apple often comes out with a design (style if you want) and soon after the regular PC market is copying that look and design. Apple is the trendsetter.

They have had some bad ideas (the Cube!). They are NOT the end all be all of computers. But I like their design philosophy which is essentially "design it the way it will be used, not make the user conform to it."

I like that their system is essentially Open Sourced. Their computers are produced to their standards (you just don't get crappy Macs like you can with some PC companies) but repairs are EXPENSIVE. They also do not make LOW END cheap barely usable machines like some companies using super cheap and slow chipsets. If you compare a Mac to a comparable quality PC the price is downright comparable and sometimes the Mac is even cheaper. But that is also a problem as it prices them out of the every day user market. The every day user doesn't WANT to spend $1200 on a computer just to browse the web. They have no problem buying a cheap computer with limited expandability and capability.

To THAT market Apple has introduced the iPad. It is cheap enough. It has the capabilities to do exactly what those users want a computer for in the first place. It is SUPER PORTABLE and easy to use.

Dark Archive

Krome wrote:


lol because even if a LOT and LOT of users do not buy one a LOT and LOT of users WILL. You have a ready and willing group of buyers just begging for you to support their product and if you decide that you just don't want to tap into the added revenue that would be generated then it seems to me that the executives are just plain idiotic.

Depends on your market, really. Even the iPhone has a long way to go, especially in the business sensitive smartphone market. Canada, where I am, is another example where RIM has a significant share of the market, and a lot of the features that make the iPad so appealing to users in the USA ... like live TV, ebooks, movie selection and whatnot have content restrictions from providers meaning we either never see the materials, or we have to wait significant amounts of time.

It's getting better, but we still have no Netflix equivalent. (Well, we kind of do, but nothing with the market dominance that allows it to be integrated into 3rd party vendors).

Krome wrote:


By the way just in all fairness! The iPad is NOT the only tablet computer to hit the market in this new age of tablets. HP has a real nice one, and I have seen a coupe of others as well (European companies I believe). It's not so much that the iPad is THE tablet of the future, I think this TYPE of tablet is the future. :)

Well, for those of us who have been using tablets for the last 5 years (I've been using a Toshiba, myself) or so already know that the tablet is the future ;)

Anyways, I didn't intend to suggest that the iPad doesn't have its uses, or its benefits, but I've been involved in technology and IT for far too long (going on two decades ... ugh, good god.) to give anything a blanket pass.

Dark Archive

Krome wrote:

The every day user doesn't WANT to spend $1200 on a computer just to browse the web. They have no problem buying a cheap computer with limited expandability and capability.

To be fair, the every day user doesn't HAVE to spend anywhere near $1200 just to browse the web, and let's also keep in mind that Apple is avoiding some of the advanced output features that comparably priced PCs are including; like PCIExpress, HDMI output and eSATA.

New tablets, slim profile and ultra-portables are all reasonable alternatives.

Both markets are capable of generating reasonably priced (and unreasonably priced) systems for users.

Krome wrote:


It has the capabilities to do exactly what those users want a computer for in the first place. It is SUPER PORTABLE and easy to use.

It can't install Microsoft Office, and never will. It can't install any number of vertical applications for medical, legal or regulatory agencies. It won't run any of my small home business applications or allow me to do my full time paying job of a Sr. Systems Engineer.

It has the capabilities that SOME users want. And that's just fine, without all the hyperbole.

EDIT: And just to keep this on topic, I think it'll be the same thing with the Kindle. Amazon isn't going to take this lying down, if they are smart they'll innovate - just like Android based phones have, and just like the new versions of Windows 7 Mobile have.

Competition is good, we all get better products in the end.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Krome wrote:

There are hacks to "unlock" the iPhone to be compatible with other networks. The phone does NOT work with other networks right out of the box. How do the hacks work? No idea. Not worth it to me to risk ruining my phone (and voiding warranties). From what I have read there is some software modifications and some hardware changes that have to be made. I'm not THAT much of a techie so I don't follow the hacks that closely.

The iPad is not "locked" at all lie the iPhone. The system is supported by AT&T but any company can adopt the methods needed to support the iPad. What does that entail? No idea. :) But in the announcement they made it clear that any company would have the ability to support the iPad.

Just so you know, once cracked the iPhone/iPad can be used on other Wireless networks, except any network that uses CDMA wireless, which includes Verizon. So no matter how much you crack them, they will not work on Verizon, it is a hardware issue not a software issue.

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