Is an alchemist still limited to brewing the same potions as other classes can, in regard to this rule under the "Creating Potions" section of the PHB: "Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions" ?
This greatly limits the potions that an alchemist can create, especially at low levels, as most of the spells on the list are personal. Was it really the intent for a 3rd level alchemist, with at least 7 or so formulae known, to just be able to brew potions of Cure Light Wounds, Enlarge Person, Reduce Person, and Jump?
There was much discussion of this on the APG Playtest boards, but I never saw a consensus or a developer stepping in to set the intent straight. Forgive me if I missed that. Since the playtest boards closed, has anybody had an alchemist in their campaign that has brewed potions? Did the DM allow them to brew any formulae he knows instead of limiting it to the rules that apply to everyone else? What were your experiences with it?
Potion as a bonus feat. An alchemist can brew potions of
any formulae he knows (up to 3rd level), using his alchemist
level as his caster level.
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Hidden in the Creating Magic Items section.
The imbiber of the potion is both the caster and the target. Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into potions.
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Wow. Why they would put that there, but not in the original potion section is beyond me. It even comes after a sentence that appears in the potion section...
Aaaaanyways, that really sucks. And here we've been using potions with personal-range effects the whole time. Well, not going to stop now; They can only be up to 3rd level anyways... Potions are so gimped.
I'm working off the playtest PDF here, so if the final rules mention potions I'd be interested to know...
In the final Advanced Player's Guide playtest, they gave the feat "Brew Potion" to the alchemist class at first level (without any prereqs needed.) The text for it is back up in the first post.
I thought it was mentioned in the final round of play testing discussion that the Alchemist could brew potions what weren't normally allowed to be brewed like shield. The Alchemist list of formulae superseded the normal rules for Brew Potion because as a class bonus feat it has different rules only restricting the potions to any formulae he knows.
"At 1st level, alchemists receive Brew
Potion as a bonus feat. An alchemist can brew potions of
any formulae he knows (up to 3rd level), using his alchemist
level as his caster level."
I thought it was mentioned in the final round of play testing discussion that the Alchemist could brew potions what weren't normally allowed to be brewed like shield. The Alchemist list of formulae superseded the normal rules for Brew Potion because as a class bonus feat it has different rules only restricting the potions to any formulae he knows.
If you can find that anywhere, Draajen, that would perfectly answer my question.
I don't think the intent was that alchemists could ever make classic potions. Wizards, sorcerers, clerics, etc. cast spells, but alchemists know formula for extracts. Potions have a spell component, alchemists do not know any spells, so craft potion should be useless to them.
the spells are just another prerequisite, if you can't cast them you can still make the item, it just increases the spellcraft (or other appropriate skill) DC.
I don't think the intent was that alchemists could ever make classic potions. Wizards, sorcerers, clerics, etc. cast spells, but alchemists know formula for extracts. Potions have a spell component, alchemists do not know any spells, so craft potion should be useless to them. No where in the alchemist does it ever say the word spell, it very specifically does not use the word spell for this class at all. Potions require xp costs but extracts don't, so the alchemist is one up on the casters in that regard in my opinion.
The creation of an extract others can use is covered in the discoveries (infusion discovery), so the earliest you can get it is 4th level. After that any infusion you make can be shared with others, and most formula are personal effects so they bypass that potion rule by not being potions. So, not at third level but at fourth level you get to have everything you know usable by the party for no xp cost or any extra time than what you are already spending, and mostly these are effects that can't be made into potions... seems like a fair trade off.
Rules wise, I don't think you have a leg to stand on. Now for individual campaigns and such, DM rules can easily override this and let an alchemist create any potion he wants so long as he pays the costs, or let him create potions faster and easier with the feat but having another party member cast the spell at the right point. These would be house rules. And if you using house rules anyway, why care what the designers think?
Personally I use an old bonus potions PDF for new formula, alchemical items, and as ideas for rare ingredients that will yield so many vials of effect X. I think distilled light and distilled darkness make interesting new alchemical items without having too much impact in most campaigns (light and darkness are such low level spells), especially if it's not introduced at first level but is a new discovery later on.
I'm working off the playtest PDF here, so if the final rules mention potions I'd be interested to know...
I would suggest looking over the APG final playtest, as it clearly stats that alchemist get brew potions feat for free and can make any formula they know into a potion. I would also suggest looking over the core book as well as brewing potions or any magic items no longer has an exp cost.
Using the infusion discovery will allow you to make potion like items, however all extracts made by a alchemist becomes inert after 24 hours. Its good enough for quick fixes but wont work if your trying to stock pile potions to use latter.
I couldn't find where it was, but it was agreed upon during the playtest that alchemists can indeed make potions that would normally not be possible. They are an alchemist, thats what they do. Rules in specific class abilities, feats, spells should always supersede general rules.
I thought it was mentioned in the final round of play testing discussion that the Alchemist could brew potions what weren't normally allowed to be brewed like shield. The Alchemist list of formulae superseded the normal rules for Brew Potion because as a class bonus feat it has different rules only restricting the potions to any formulae he knows.If you can find that anywhere, Draajen, that would perfectly answer my question.
There were many posts on this during the playtest and the general consistence was that an Alchemist could brew anything from his formula list that he knew. I didn't find a post where this was said officially but here are some of the discussions on it.
Bump, This issue will have to be clarified when (or before) the AVP comes out.