My group will wrap up Serpents of Scuttlecove next week. I think your party will do fine, they're pretty well balanced. Sure, they'll occasionally run into trouble when the bruisers run around the one melee guy in order to get at the soft squishy characters hiding behind her, but once it happens a time or two the cleric and ranger will invest resources in being able to stand up for themselves in melee when necessary and the others will come up with strategies for staying out of the way.
I don't see any reason not to let the warlock join the witchwardens. The affiliations add a nice additional element and give the pcs additional motivation for being involved in the plot. I tried to get as many characters involved in as many different affiliations as I could.
I wouldn't worry about the warlock. Some of the abilities might seem like a lot when you get them, but they're not really going to overpower your game. Your warlock will be very happy to be able to see invisible at first level, but how many times is he going to run into invisible opponents? By the time that ability is going to come up multiple times a day, the party will have enough resources that they would be capable of solving the problem other ways if it became necessary.
Your party is already gimped, so I wouldn't advise doing it any further.
1 elf who will maximize efficiency of rogue and mage levels to become an arcane trickster
In D&D 3.5 you can't really maximize anything if you don't specialize only in it (meaning dual classing is not the brightest idea), so he won't really be that great. Not a good idea since he's the only arcane spellcaster.
1 elf ranger who plans specialize in archery including the prestige class Order of the Bow
That prestige class is crap. It's based on forcing you to make one attack per round.
1 gnome cleric of Bozdogan, using the Wavecrest gnome abilities from Stormwrack(the racial attack and damage bonus will work on kopru rather than sahaughin), having domains Magic and Trickery
Clerics can be powerhouses, if played properly. But it really depends on how your player is good at optimizing, and in Savage Tide the party really needs a dedicated healer.
It's not too bad. Early in the game when the casters are relatively weak the ranger will just be a ranger, so can wade in with melee weapons and be almost as good as the paladin. You might have some party coherence issues later on though, tactically. The paladin will want to be up close, the warlock and archer will want to keep their distance, the arcane trickster will probably want to be at short-medium range (but NOT in melee), and the cleric will be needed everywhere but will have a very low movement rate (especially if he's acting as a backup melee guy and wearing heavy armour!) There's a good selection of long-distance and close-up combats in the AP, so everyone will get their chance to shine, but coordination will be a problem.
Later on in the game a full arcane caster is generally called for, but the cleric can probably cover most of the non-combat utility needs (plane shift, sending, wind walk for long distance movement). Warlock is not as good a zap guy as a wizard, but is better than nothing.
Don't weaken the warlock too much. As a class they're not the most powerful anyway. Stuff like the continual see invisibility sounds powerful, but in-game it comes at the cost of a massive flexibility hit. If anything, you're more likely to have the player coming to you and asking to re-do the invocation selection because his options are too limited.
Your party is already gimped, so I wouldn't advise doing it any further.
1 elf who will maximize efficiency of rogue and mage levels to become an arcane tricksterIn D&D 3.5 you can't really maximize anything if you don't specialize only in it (meaning dual classing is not the brightest idea), so he won't really be that great. Not a good idea since he's the only arcane spellcaster.
1 elf ranger who plans specialize in archery including the prestige class Order of the BowThat prestige class is crap. It's based on forcing you to make one attack per round.
1 gnome cleric of Bozdogan, using the Wavecrest gnome abilities from Stormwrack(the racial attack and damage bonus will work on kopru rather than sahaughin), having domains Magic and TrickeryClerics can be powerhouses, if played properly. But it really depends on how your player is good at optimizing, and in Savage Tide the party really needs a dedicated healer.
To quote myself as the GM at my own table: let the players play the characters that they want to play. Very seldom does the STAP decree that a given encounter is a "one time only" deal.
They have numerous options for staying alive. :)
To quote myself as the GM at my own table: let the players play the characters that they want to play.
I second the notion and am known for saying the same myself on a regular basis.
If an incident as-written in the STAP is completely impossible to solve with the current party composition, the DM can always alter it. Many times it's not necessary though - players are surprisingly intuitive when they need to be, and it's amazing how often they'll think around something when they can't blow through it.
I will also second HM's comments on the Warlock.
To quote myself as the GM at my own table: let the players play the characters that they want to play. Very seldom does the STAP decree that a given encounter is a "one time only" deal.
They have numerous options for staying alive. :)
It's not only that. Characters with dead-end prestige classes will start to feel useless when they start being outclassed by the rest of the party.
I've seen it happen and it's not pretty. Especially for the non-caster classes (who are weaker than casters) who end up taking a bad prestige class. And there are many of them, unfortunately.And that will happen with Ranger. He's a ranged combatant who has to stay within 30 feet of the enemy to make his one attack with a meager bonus to dmg.
My suggestion is to advise him to play a scout (or take scout levels along with ranger and take the feat Swift Hunter). Now that's a real ranged warrior.
Ok, I will review the scout and the swift hunter feat, and also see if arcane archer might be more suitable.
Not really. :D All he gets is a magic weapon, which he can get if wizard/cleric cast Greater Magic Weapon. Just suggest that he mixes ranger and scout levels and get the best stuff out of both classes. Manyshot is his friend.
I also need to check out that bow in City of Broken Idols and see how useful it is long term for the campaign.
It's not. It's a Shockig Burst weapon in a Demon campaign. I really have no idea what was the writer thinking, giving the only artifact weapon in the game (and a cool one at that) Shocking property when all Demons are immune to it! And there are like 5 dragons in the whole campaign - 2 Stygian Linnorms at Iggwilv's home, Redfang and Lazurvakus.
Fairly unrelated, but I gave out a better anti-demon bow as one of the rewards for the side quest with a Coautl....or maybe I made up a side quest with a coautl so I could give out this bow....hmmm.
Right.
The fluff of the bow was that it was actually the bodies of two coautls, lovers actually, entwinned together in death. Poisoned by demons with a venom even they could not cure from each other, they stayed together with each other to the very end. Their essence lingers in the bow (I had a provide a diplomacy bonus, fluffed as an inherent empathy and love for others), but so does their hatred for the demons that doomed their respective loves to such a fate. So the bow was also a Holy, Outsider(Evil) Bane bow. Make it whatever type of bow would best fit your PCs, or even make it a limited morphic, it adapts to the bow type favored by a PC, so in the fighter's hand's its a composite longbow, in the rogue's a shortbow, etc. I wouldn't have it rebuild itself into a crossbow though, thats a little too far.
Anyhow, this was fun, flavorful, and much more useful against the demons, on the isle and later. Leave it as a +1 Holy Bane bow though, only a +4 weapon total. You could even give it out early, because against most of the other inhabitants of the isle (dinosaurs, lizardmen, etc) it's only going to be +1. And by the time the party gets to the abyss, its only a +4 bow, and the party would need to upgrade it, or just get a new bow entirely.
and the party would need to upgrade it, or just get a new bow entirely.
Or cast Greater Magic Weapon on it. :P
I also need to check out that bow in City of Broken Idols and see how useful it is long term for the campaign.It's not. It's a Shockig Burst weapon in a Demon campaign. I really have no idea what was the writer thinking, giving the only artifact weapon in the game (and a cool one at that) Shocking property when all Demons are immune to it! And there are like 5 dragons in the whole campaign - 2 Stygian Linnorms at Iggwilv's home, Redfang and Lazurvakus.
I changed it to sonic instead of lightning and expanded the stuff it works best against a little. Since sonic can be flavored as "thunder" it still fits the theme of the bow, it should still work. I'll let you know how it turns out when the players actually get to CoBI... we're just starting HTBM tomorrow.
(Also, I believe the guide mentions a Green lurking on the island somewhere, but it's not required to meet it and I think it might be before CoBI so it wouldn't matter anyway, but I digress.)
Don't really have anything to add about the party comp except the best option I find is to just roll with what the players want and compensate accordingly. My games been going for nearly 2 years fortnightly and they've all changed characters at least once for various reasons and have anywhere from 3 - 9 players at any given session, so being flexibles a must.
We're in the middle of Tides of Dread and I also am in the Mystara setting. Sasserine I put on Davania in the swamp to the north of Glauqnor (PWA map 1011, sea of dread region). It's great to hear of someone else using this setting. I found this site http://pandius.com/svgetide.html incredibly usefull and great as a starting point. I've also gained bucket loads of ideas from these paizo messageboards that've made the campaign far better than i would have done otherwise. For example due to these boards I totally changed SWW and most of HTBM to throw in WotC mod Last breaths of Ashenport (dungeon 152), then I added Tamerauts fate (dungeon 106) and Torrents of Dread (dungeon 114) and they all were a great success.
At the start of the year we changed from 3.5 to the new pathfinder rpg and its given all my players a much needed boost of interest and we haven't looked back since. We love the new PF rules.
Anyway I hope your game is really successful and I'm sure you'll have many fun times with a great adventure path.
P.S. The Rules Cyclopedia IMO is the best rulebook ever written and I still found myself using it for things in 3.5 such as boarding actions or using the trade system from the gazeteers.
If this party lineup was to start in endgame, I'd say: Hell, they'll have a very tough time. But you are GMing an adenture path, and things are much different then:
- I'd say, start the campaign with characters the players want, and observe closely. If they start to struggle, offer options: Custom feats and prestige classes, and well suited magical equipment. In an adventure path, you have almost limitless possibilities to tie them in nicely. Make use of that possibility, and let the characters grow.
- Take a habit on commenting on intense battles, and the tactics and abilities used therein (after they are finished). If your players are smart, they will listen closely, adjust their tactics, learn, and begin to think as a group. Which is MUCH more powerful than any prestige class out there. Especially if they have 20+ levels to get to know each other.
- Playing a warlock through an adventure path is *boring*. It's a nice class, full flavor, don't get me wrong... but this guy will end up hating his eldritch blast just because it's the only (meaningful) thing he does for 20 levels. Either he will want to play another character soon, or you should alleviate his frustration by judiciously giving away scrolls (he'd better max UMD).
- Order of the Bow Initiate is, as has been stated, horrible for a dedicated ranger. Considering good mobility (excellent if mounted on flying animal companion), he should always full-attack. If not staying straigth ranger, multiclassing in fighter, or taking levels in demonslayer PrC (it's in one of the savage tidings articles) are good options.
Two levels in the Bow Initiate prestige class can be useful. It gives the character the Close Combat Shot class feature (L 2), which lets the character attack with a ranged weapon while in a threatened square _and not provoke an attack of opportunity_ by doing so. One can build the greatest archer character, but one can never be sure of staying out of melee range ...
Also, a two-level dip will net some improved Reflex and Will saves (while a Ranger already has good Reflex saves, any warrior-type character could do with a boost to the Will save).
And it's not as if the Bow Initiate prestige class has any crazy pre-requisites. All the feats are ones which an archer _should_ be taking anyway.
Wasn't the original Isle of Dread in X-1, a module of the same name which came with the Expert set? Where is that located in Mystara?
Wasn't the original Isle of Dread in X-1, a module of the same name which came with the Expert set? Where is that located in Mystara?
It is indeed - and it was a long, long voyage by sea to get there, due south (more or less) of the "start area" presented in the Expert Set *if* memory serves.
Wasn't the original Isle of Dread in X-1, a module of the same name which came with the Expert set? Where is that located in Mystara?
Yes indeed. X1 was smack bang in the middle of the Sea of Dread, South of the Grand Duchy of Karameikos (the location for the early boxes and mods such as B2 Keep on the borderlands) and North of the Continent of Davania, a relatively untouched region which has recently been annexed by competing nations such as The Empire of Thyatis (think Rome). Looks like NPC Dave will be using the Heldannic Freeholds (think templars) as his go to baddies while I used Hattians (A branch of Thyatia - think nazi germans) for mine. I also kept the Crimson Fleet as written but haven't decided yet on a base for scuttlecove.
So it turns out my player does know what she is doing, the Order of the Bow is mainly to pick up the Close Combat shot ability.
Why would she need that lol? She can always just you know... Make a 5 foot step. :D And as a ranged combatant, why would she need to be in close combat anyway?
So it turns out my player does know what she is doing, the Order of the Bow is mainly to pick up the Close Combat shot ability.
Why would she need that lol? She can always just you know... Make a 5 foot step. :D And as a ranged combatant, why would she need to be in close combat anyway?
A character can always be trapped in a bad tactical situation, and some foes have a reach of way more than five feet. I consider the Close Combat Shot class feature to be a no-brainer for a dedicated missile specialist.
So it turns out my player does know what she is doing, the Order of the Bow is mainly to pick up the Close Combat shot ability.Why would she need that lol? She can always just you know... Make a 5 foot step. :D And as a ranged combatant, why would she need to be in close combat anyway?A character can always be trapped in a bad tactical situation, and some foes have a reach of way more than five feet. I consider the Close Combat Shot class feature to be a no-brainer for a dedicated missile specialist.
Such as, say, when a Kraken has chosen Your Ship as the Snack of the Hour... :)
So it turns out my player does know what she is doing, the Order of the Bow is mainly to pick up the Close Combat shot ability.Why would she need that lol? She can always just you know... Make a 5 foot step. :D And as a ranged combatant, why would she need to be in close combat anyway?A character can always be trapped in a bad tactical situation, and some foes have a reach of way more than five feet. I consider the Close Combat Shot class feature to be a no-brainer for a dedicated missile specialist.
It is a good ability, I agree, but not really worthwhile blowing all those feats on it and taking the dead prestige class for it. Make it a feat with a few prerequisites and let him take a class that's actually worth its salt.
So it turns out my player does know what she is doing, the Order of the Bow is mainly to pick up the Close Combat shot ability.
Why would she need that lol? She can always just you know... Make a 5 foot step. :D And as a ranged combatant, why would she need to be in close combat anyway?
A character can always be trapped in a bad tactical situation, and some foes have a reach of way more than five feet. I consider the Close Combat Shot class feature to be a no-brainer for a dedicated missile specialist.
It is a good ability, I agree, but not really worthwhile blowing all those feats on it and taking the dead prestige class for it. Make it a feat with a few prerequisites and let him take a class that's actually worth its salt.
Personally, I wouldn't consider just two levels in that class to be "dead". As I mentioned in earlier, a two-level dip will net some improved Reflex and Will saves (while a Ranger already has good Reflex saves, any warrior-type character could do with a boost to the Will save).
Furthermore, the pre-requisites are all the feats which an archer _should_ be taking anyway. (Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Weapon Focus [bow of choice].)
The BAB is the best, so no losses there. For the pure number-crunchers, maybe the d8 hit die is unbearable (and if the class is Pathfinderised with house rules, the hit die might even jump to d10).
I would only see a problem if the DM is of the sort who insists that a character take _all_ the levels in a prestige class.
Of course, as we all know is the case on these boards, YMMV. :)
Spell Compendium has a ranger spell, arrow mind, which duplicates the effect of close combat shot.
Or, if you're using, say, a greatbow, you can take levels in Exotic Weapon Master, and do it that way.
There's more than one way to do anything, 3.5 has been out for years, and there's books, feats, etc. to solve most any concern, if you know where to look.
- Playing a warlock through an adventure path is *boring*. It's a nice class, full flavor, don't get me wrong... but this guy will end up hating his eldritch blast just because it's the only (meaningful) thing he does for 20 levels. Either he will want to play another character soon, or you should alleviate his frustration by judiciously giving away scrolls (he'd better max UMD).
I suppose, but I've never seen any evidence of that.
Our warlock loves eldritch blast, since it's auto hit and damge 99% of the time. Not to mention infinite dispel magics (used constantly from level 9 onwards), permanent fly, permanent invisibility, and permanent see invisibility and detect magic among other things - this warlock has tons of things to do, much of the time. Continual damage all the time from hundreds of feet away, remaining untouched? Yeah, that'll work.
- Playing a warlock through an adventure path is *boring*. It's a nice class, full flavor, don't get me wrong... but this guy will end up hating his eldritch blast just because it's the only (meaningful) thing he does for 20 levels. Either he will want to play another character soon, or you should alleviate his frustration by judiciously giving away scrolls (he'd better max UMD).I suppose, but I've never seen any evidence of that.
Our warlock loves eldritch blast, since it's auto hit and damge 99% of the time. Not to mention infinite dispel magics (used constantly from level 9 onwards), permanent fly, permanent invisibility, and permanent see invisibility and detect magic among other things - this warlock has tons of things to do, much of the time. Continual damage all the time from hundreds of feet away, remaining untouched? Yeah, that'll work.
I second this. Oh so much. Both I and my brother love the heck out of Warlock. Easily one of my top five classes - right up there with Binder, Warblade, Archivist, and Ardent. (Though with the release of the PF APG, Alchemist is working its way up...)
Then again, I'm not a player who enjoys the "God Mage" play style. When I play a caster, nine times out of ten I'm an Evoker. The other times I'm an Illusionist or Necromancer, but those are only occasional. If I play a mage, I want to blow $#@! up. So while for you Eldritch Blast may be "boring", for us it's a blast - literally, nothing quite like being nearly always guaranteed to hit and getting to roll a fistful of d6s every round.
TL;DR: YMMV.
Thanks for the info NPC Dave. Mines set in 1005AC just before WOTI. I've also had the Thyatians fill in the roll of the Sea Princes with a similar back story for Sasserine to yours but without the Heldannic Knights.
I've decided to place Scuttlecove on the Island furthest east in the Thanegioth Archipelago, in the bay on the southern side. My party passed the north side of the island and I had it all as 200'+ cliffs so they never even bothered stopping.
Initiate of the Bow + Ranger should be good but not stellar.
IMC, I have a Druid and a Ranger, no multi-classing at all, at level 20 just going into the final adventure. It works, the ranger gets an incredible number of small useful features, but still feels a fair bit weaker than the others. The druid, of course, is quite all right. The two others is a swashbuckler/sorcerer/bladesinger/eldrich knight (we made swashbuckler and bladesinger cha-based instead of Int-based as elves in this game are sorcerers, not wizards) and a variant pixie sorcerer/dance mage (?) (From Magic of Faerun), and these three feel pretty well matched in powers.
The campaign kicked off with a lupin and a diabolus in a tavern. They don't really have anything to do with the campaign, they are just a couple of NPCs co-miserating because none of the players picked either of them as a race for their PC...despite how cool and well-suited for a Mystara campaign the DM thinks they are:)
That's too bad as they're both awesome races and I've never gotten a chance to play one... one campaign I'm in I snatched up another concept I've been waiting a while to play (Hellbred Binder) and the other is PF-only.