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I've got an encounter coming up in which the area will be covered by an unhallow spell. A dimensional anchor will be tied to the unhallow.
A green ray springs from your hand. You must make a ranged touch attack to hit the target. Any creature or object struck by the ray is covered with a shimmering emerald field that completely blocks extradimensional travel. Forms of movement barred by a dimensional anchor include astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar spell-like abilities. The spell also prevents the use of a gate or teleportation circle for the duration of the spell.
A dimensional anchor does not interfere with the movement of creatures already in ethereal or astral form when the spell is cast, nor does it block extradimensional perception or attack forms. Also, dimensional anchor does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell.
Normally I would say that the anchor wouldn't affect objects like haversacks or bags of holding. But then the description has the bolded text (above) and I began wondering if what was meant was that planar crossings were impossible, which would seem to include the above mentioned magic items. It could be argued that items put into a bag of holding or similar device are traveling between planes and such travel is prohibited.
Note that the handy haversack has secret chest as an item creation requirement and not the spells listed in the above quote.
I've got an encounter coming up in which the area will be covered by an unhallow spell. A dimensional anchor will be tied to the unhallow.
A green ray springs from your hand. You must make a ranged touch attack to hit the target. Any creature or object struck by the ray is covered with a shimmering emerald field that completely blocks extradimensional travel. Forms of movement barred by a dimensional anchor include astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar spell-like abilities. The spell also prevents the use of a gate or teleportation circle for the duration of the spell.
A dimensional anchor does not interfere with the movement of creatures already in ethereal or astral form when the spell is cast, nor does it block extradimensional perception or attack forms. Also, dimensional anchor does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell.
Normally I would say that the anchor wouldn't affect objects like haversacks or bags of holding. But then the description has the bolded text (above) and I began wondering if what was meant was that planar crossings were impossible, which would seem to include the above mentioned magic items. It could be argued that items put into a bag of holding or similar device are traveling between planes and such travel is prohibited.
Note that the handy haversack has secret chest as an item creation requirement and not the spells listed in the above quote.
I think if someone wanted to I would rule they could disable a bag of holding or a handy haversack by hitting it with a dimensional anchor. Just never really came up.
Nothing horrifies players more than not being able to get anything from there haversacks/BoH. This recently came up in a game that I'm running and we paused the game and had about a 30 min discussion including searching the internet. Out of the 6 of us, 3 of us GM and all could make good cases as to how it would interfere with extra-dimensional space so we ruled that if a play got effected by a dimensional anchor than their items were effected too.
Nothing horrifies players more than not being able to get anything from there haversacks/BoH.
When the archer reaches into his efficient quiver and nothing come out, I think he'll be more horrified...
I had something similar happen with a quick-loading crossbow and an antimagic field in 3.5. very not fun.
You are the GM. If you want it to effect the items then it does. If not, not. And I don't mean that flippantly or as an off-hand reamark.
Myself, I think I would concentrate more on the sentence past the bolded.
"Forms of movement barred by a dimensional anchor include..."
Forms of movement, being the key, to me. Dimensional Anchor prevents people from using spells to escape via the specific spells and spells that work like them.
The effect doesn't specifically call out /secret chest/ nor is secret chest similar to the other spells. (in that they are all spells that effect the movement of an individual, where secret chest summons a box and then unsummons it).
In the end I think both arguments have merit. It'd come down to what the GM wanted. Its probably one of those things that should be decided the first time a PC gets a BoH or such item.
-S
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I'd rule Dimensional Anchor blocks access to Bags of Holding/Handy Haversack based on the Secret Chest spell used to create them.
While the items don't describe where the items go (a non-dimensional space), the spell does. The spell "Secret Chest" sends things to the Ethereal Plane. The use of this spell provides instantaneous access to storage and explains why when bags are ruptured items are lost rather than just fall out. It would also provide an interesting adventure (as the Secret Chest spell points out), if things in a bag were lost and an expedition mounted to the Ethereal Plane to find them.
To access an item, you reach into the bag, a direct link to your storage in a spot in the Ethereal Plane. Since Dimensional Anchor clearly prevents any attempts to get access to the Ethereal plane, anyone reaching into their Bags of Holding would not have such a link.
On a side note, anyone who has read Knights of the Dinner Table might remember the "Bag Zone" wars where the gamers found the plane where bags of holding stored things and began raiding it...
In this case, I think the pivotal word is "travel". Given the examples listed, it seems that RAI it means creatures traveling. Of course, it is possible to argue that travel could include objects, so you would be justified (if cruel) to deny the players their stored items.
btw, in case you hadn't considered it, forbiddance seems like a more streamlined way to get this spell effect. for good measure, you could double up with the unhallow to get protection from good, or something else!
sounds like a nasty encounter, enjoy!
Yeah, I can see arguments for both.
I think it comes down to how much you're willing to split hairs. A strict definition of "travel" falls in favor of the players, a more liberal interpretation would see such spaces cut off.
Honestly Azhrei, I would step back and look at it from a distance and ask yourself:
"Did they mean that there's no way to move between dimensions or planes of existence?"
Or
"Did they mean that someone can not use transportation powers that move the character between one place to another?"
Because this is a classic RAW argumnt waiting to happen.
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Personal opinion? I would prevent them from accessing Haversacks and Bags of Holding just because it sounds kinda cool and it makes Dimensional Anchor have a real sting to it, above what it has now. I think DA is merely an annoyance spell considering its level, and this would just about balance it out. Make it worth using a spell slot. Slip a "fist in the glove" so to speak.
Edit: Because it is so easy for players to take those items completely for granted.
However that is a completely subjective opinion, based on nothing but my gut.
NEVERTHELESS.. I would not under any circumstances spring this ruling on them at the moment you run the proposed encounter. I'd give them the 'heads up' on how you interpret the effect as soon as possible. That way it won't seem like such a rotten GM trick.
Extradimensional travel you say? Remember, a Bag of Holding is merely a portable portal to an extradimensional space, usually on the Astral Plane. Reaching into your Bag and removing an item moves something across dimensions.
If a creature is hit with dimensional anchor, it can't reach into a Bag with the spell in place. If a Bag is hit, no items or creatures can access or pass through the Bag.
I agree. Dimensional Anchor is targeted. If it hits you, you can't get in your bag/haversack, but an ally/familiar still has access to it. If it hits the bag/haversack, then nobody gets in it. The option is situational, deny travel or deny access....seems reasonable for a spell of this level.
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This generated more discussion than I thought it might. :)
From the unhallow description:
Finally, you can fix a single spell effect to the hallowed site. The spell effect lasts for 1 year and functions throughout the entire site, regardless of the normal duration and area or effect. You may designate whether the effect applies to all creatures, creatures who share your faith or alignment, or creatures who adhere to another faith or alignment. [...]
The ranged touch requirement of dimensional anchor is seemingly unneeded; the spell affects the entire site. However, this text specifically says it affects creatures and not objects. That's confusing as the DA spell says it applies to "any creature or object struck by the ray". :(
Of course, this means it would prevent familiars from entering the BoH as well. (Regarding Robert Young's comments, about 2 posts up.)
One thing I noticed about the DA description is that the spell prevents the use of a gate or teleportation circle for the duration of the spell. But that means I can't open a gate and then throw an object through?! Why not?! I'm assuming that what the description really means is that a targeted creature or object cannot personally use the gate or teleportation circle. It would be nice if it said that, though. :)
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My conclusion is that the description of each spell could use clarification; the unhallow spell should detail how targeted spells are tied to it (does the DA affect objects?), and the DA spell should detail whether openings to extra (or non-)dimensional spaces can be opened and crossed (whether by creatures, a creature's appendage, or objects).
I'm inclined to allow the PCs access to their BoH, at least for this (extended) encounter. They are on their 3rd (or 4th?) session in this area and changing it now would seem like I'm picking on them. But the next time they leave the area and return, maybe then? I can argue that their presence has strengthened the unhallow spell... >D
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Hmm, I understand your concern. The module already has made "ad hoc" changes to the rules of a few spells. To say that the dimensional anchor ability grows stronger over time would not be a stretch. And the players would certainly have no way of determining that the effect was strengthening without some kind of divination ability. Although I could warn them the next time they go to use such a device that it didn't open as quickly as expected...
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If that's the way that the magic could work (via unhallow, dim anchor, etc) then those with spellcraft/knowledge arcana should already know these things.
Ah, perhaps that's our difference in viewpoint. I think that a unique effect could be recognized if the player wants to roll the check, but I don't give it to them unless they ask. I simply describe the effect as given in the module and let them (the players) wonder about it. If they say they're making a K(A) check then I'd be happy to explain that, "You've never seen a phenomena like this before, where two spells are interacting like this, but it's possible that some kind of feedback loop is causing the spell effects to change. You know that this unhallow effect has been in place for hundreds of years so there's obviously something unusual going on."
Unless you're familiar with
But as they are not in the rules the players cannot know this, so you should inform them of this rules alteration beforehand.
But the modules (and hence, the GM) create new situations based on existing rules all the time. That's how the players are challenged. Or are you saying that the only traps you use are the ones in the rulebook? And the only puzzles you use are the ones in the rulebook? (Oops, there aren't any. My mistake.) You can consider the combination of spell effects to be the "puzzle".
Now if none of the PCs have any knowledge of these kinds of magics, you have a bit more of a free hand. But you have made this thing possible in your world and should be prepared for the PCs to use it to their advantage at some point.
As mentioned above, the PCs won't be creating unhallow (or hallow) effects that last for centuries. :) And some of the "special effects" are feedback loops between spells that the players don't have access to (as in, they're not high enough level to cast) although I don't have any problem giving them a K(A) check to identify the warped versions. And they would be described as just that: twisted versions of spell XYZ.
In any case, we're off-topic. :) As I said, I think I'm going to leave the BoH and similar items intact, but when they are next in the area they will discover that there is "resistance" to getting into the items. And after that, the items may be completely unusable while within the AoE.
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And I provide passive Perception and Knowledge checks all the time, in fact. But there's no reason to roll a K(A) check unless there's some element that prompts them to think something unusual is going on. For the last few sessions they've been able to get into their bags and such. No check is called for.
In the next session, they'll find it difficult to open the bag. And then they'll receive the check. One of the PCs already suspects something is going on since their Rope Trick spell didn't work. (That player received a note regarding his check, but he didn't tell the other players/PCs. Gotta love those types of PCs! So much opportunity for sowing a little rivalry within the group. ;))
I don't have a problem with bags of holding and handy haversacks being inaccessible while the owner is affected by a dimensional anchor.
I do have a problem with the efficient quiver not working, as arrows usually stick out of the end of the quiver, they are not completely in the quiver.
What would happen if the target of the dimensional anchor passes the bag or haversack to someone else? I suspect that they would start to work again.
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I do have a problem with the efficient quiver not working, as arrows usually stick out of the end of the quiver, they are not completely in the quiver.
Agreed. Although if they're sticking out of the extradimensional space, I might say one or two drop out if you roll a "1" on your Acrobatics (i.e. Tumbling) check. (No, that's not in the rules. But it seems entirely appropriate to me.)
What would happen if the target of the dimensional anchor passes the bag or haversack to someone else? I suspect that they would start to work again.
Also agreed.
In this case, the dimensional anchor is tied to the unhallow spell which covers the entire area. So all of the creatures nearby are being affected; handing your BoH to someone else won't help.
If it weren't for the fact that the unhallow specifically says that creatures are targeted by the attached spell (dimensional anchor) I would say that the DA applies to each individual creature/object brought into the AoE.