Creative Director
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What if in the sub-forum for questions other posters could reply with a link to the FAQ forum answer. That way for popular questions if you guys want you can just drop in, give a head nod that it's the right answer, lock the thread and flag it as answered?
I don't know if that would be overly complicated, just a thought.
Nah, because I'd want to be able to delete stuff from that sub folder for our own sanity here at Paizo, and to help us keep track of which questions we've answered.
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Creative Director
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I thought it might be possible for Gary to work a little magic and make it easy for the "rules" team to mark questions as 'answered' and auto-link them to the Answer for them. Via something like a button that marks it "Answered" and Auto-Creates a Thread in the "Answers" Forum. Or for Questions that have already been answered, a pop-up menu to select the appropriate "Answer" Thread or something. (The special "Answer" Controls could only appear to Jason and James' accounts) In other words, make it easy to 'auto-manage' for the "rules team" themselves.
The big attraction to me for this solution is that it's VERY easy to build new forums and sub-forums. Once you start adding new functionality to the posts, though, things get complicated. I worry that adding things like "answered" buttons or checkmarks would just throw up another unnecessary hurdle to leap over to get this off the ground.
The big attraction to me for this solution is that it's VERY easy to build new forums and sub-forums. Once you start adding new functionality to the posts, though, things get complicated. I worry that adding things like "answered" buttons or checkmarks would just throw up another unnecessary hurdle to leap over to get this off the ground.
Sure thing, that thought came to me completely as a "IF it isn't very much work to do, Gary can slip this into the functionality for the "rules teams'" accounts whenever possible" (i.e. possibly after the first run of questions were already deleted).
But I think the new Update to the RAW in itself will be answering alot of questions, and in any case will provide the solidest foundation upon which to base "FAQ" Answers.
Just a heads up: We talked a little bit about the FAQ in today's "state of the nation" weekly meeting, and I really like the idea of setting up the FAQ as a dedicated spot on these boards where we can post but others cannot. That lets us have direct control over everything, without worries about things like layout or finding a spot for it on the website and all that, AND lets us directly manipulate the words whenever we want without having to go to the web guys.
I'm not sure yet how it'll all work out or if there's some unforeseen reason why we COULDN'T do this (up until now, we just hadn't thought of doing a FAQ that way)... but if it all works as I hope, we might be able to get it going a LOT sooner than I thought. Especially since we don't have to have it DONE before we post it... we can start it as a single post and let it grow organically as needed.
Stay tuned!
That's a great idea James. My group was just discussing something like that last night. btw, much respect for actually taking the time to discuss the game. It shows great integrity. Cheers for all the hard work and the time and care taken to create an excellent system for dnd!
I agree James. Better to the get ball rolling sooner and tweak it / add functionality etc down the road when / if needed. Start simple and build on it.
I'm actually excited to see this when it's up and running!
Agree. Start of small. Keep it simple.
I rahter see a small FAQ than no FAQ :-)
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In the Castles & Crusades example they have one thread where fans can post a question but no one but official people can respond. That way if its an official "I'm really only looking for the official ruling on X" the fan can scan that thread to see if someone else already asked it, and if not, post a question. Then there isn't endless debating and arguing about what DM X would do in his campaign and then endless bickering back and forth over why Player Y can't just let his DM make his own decisions. It was annoying at first not being able to respond to my own posts but it gets the point across and usually ends things quickly. The developers post an answer and you accept it (or not) and move on. No 1000+ post threads where you have to sift through hours of arguing to find a ruling.
In the Castles & Crusades example they have one thread where fans can post a question but no one but official people can respond. That way if its an official "I'm really only looking for the official ruling on X" the fan can scan that thread to see if someone else already asked it, and if not, post a question. Then there isn't endless debating and arguing about what DM X would do in his campaign and then endless bickering back and forth over why Player Y can't just let his DM make his own decisions. It was annoying at first not being able to respond to my own posts but it gets the point across and usually ends things quickly. The developers post an answer and you accept it (or not) and move on. No 1000+ post threads where you have to sift through hours of arguing to find a ruling.
Don't worry, people will just get their official response and then have a 1,000 post thread on this section discussing it ^^
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Don't worry, people will just get their official response and then have a 1,000 post thread on this section discussing it ^^
lol, I think it is a great idea, but I can already see into the future.
Post 1: Can vital strike and spring attack be used together.
Lot of replies, most saying no.
Post 2: Official answer needed: vital strike and Spring attack
Again more people discussing, someone showing rule in book.. attack option is a Standard action, but a standard action is Not an attack option. Vital strike can not be used. Paizo staff drops in agrees
Post 3: (in the FAQ forum): Vital strike and spring attack. compatible?
response say no, vital attack is a standard action not an attack action.
Post 4: Nerf of vital attack makes feat tree useless. This should be errata'd
NOTE: comments on vital strike used as an example only and do not constitute a opening for discussion.
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I suspect there might be ONE sub-forum in the FAQ forum that might be open for everyone, but that forum would ONLY be for folks to post questions. Raw questions. No pontification or anything like that. Then we'd use that sub-forum to draw questions from (in addition to from the regular boards), deleting posts from that sub-forum as we get FAQ entries written.
I've seen this post just now.
Sounds like a great idea!T.
Not sure if this is the place for a rules query or clarification, seems like my best bet tho. Apologies if i'm in the wrong thread.
First of all, i want to make clear that i'm not trying to spark up the discussion on whether or not (and when) there will be a 'savage species' type book, and whether that's good or not. I simply would like clarification on how the guidelines on p.313-314 of the Beastiary work (or are intended to work) in relation to the half-fiend and half-celestial templates. It's good that the CR+ increases with level, but it's made it VERY confusing.
Is it possible to have an official clarification please?
I would agree that some form of official use only forum would be a great way to issue answers.
Would Paizo be open to maybe archiving any solved FAQ's periodically and distributing them as a bare bones text only pdf? Much like was done for 3.5 a while back. It would make it a great tool for those who may GM from a laptop who wouldn't neccessarily have an internet connection at the table.
Tanis, and anyone who's interested, I have attempted to map out the progression for those templates. Please see this post, also in the Rules Questions forum.
I think a developer-exclusive Faq thread is a great idea. And thanks.
It's a big ask, really, but I'd love it if the whole combat actions setup could be clarified. This wouldn't be wholly errata, of course, since it's mostly there already...but it's clear that for many the difference between 'an attack' and 'an Attack Action' isn't transparent, and - to be fair - the action expended by 'an attack' isn't that clear, and never has been. There are other issues with the inherited actions list, too.
The perfect Faq post for me would be one that clearly described the action types of attacks within a full attack, and attacks of opportunity, as well as the action types involved in finickety little manuevers like taking one hand off a two-handed weapon to attack with a gauntlet or cast a spell, and precise descriptions of which 'quick' actions can be taken on-turn and off-turn.
I think that kind of post could help provide answers to many queries that have come up in a variety of threads.
Anyway, whether you manage this or not, a devoted Faq thread would be much appreciated.
Not sure if this is the place for a rules query or clarification, seems like my best bet tho. Apologies if i'm in the wrong thread.
First of all, i want to make clear that i'm not trying to spark up the discussion on whether or not (and when) there will be a 'savage species' type book, and whether that's good or not. I simply would like clarification on how the guidelines on p.313-314 of the Beastiary work (or are intended to work) in relation to the half-fiend and half-celestial templates. It's good that the CR+ increases with level, but it's made it VERY confusing.
Is it possible to have an official clarification please?
Yeah, that particular template is a major pain to work out with the monster PC rules. So far, I've taken the +CR to be 'as applied to the base creature' and not adjusted it up as they take class levels. That might not be right, but it's simple.
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Creative Director
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There's certainly a demand from a subset of our customers for a "Savage Species" style book... but there's also demands for numerous other types of books as well. It's certainly not something we've got coming out this year, nor is it something we're working on yet for next year... but maybe some day...
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Creative Director
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I would agree that some form of official use only forum would be a great way to issue answers.
Would Paizo be open to maybe archiving any solved FAQ's periodically and distributing them as a bare bones text only pdf? Much like was done for 3.5 a while back. It would make it a great tool for those who may GM from a laptop who wouldn't neccessarily have an internet connection at the table.
I won't say no... but once anything becomes a PDF, even if it's a bare-bones text-only PDF things start to run afoul of the system. A text FAQ would need the full editing cycle, a full layout cycle, a full PDFing/bookmarking cycle, and we'd need to involve the web store to get it out and distributed. All of these things are individually simple, but they take time and have to fit into the currently jam-packed schedules for about a half dozen (or more) people, rather than just one for a messageboard post. So something like this is CERTAINLY not going to happen anytime soon, and is unlikely to happen anytime soon thereafter... but maybe someday we'll do this if it makes sense and there's enough demand for it and we get to a point where the contents of the messageboard FAQ are solid.
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The community could easily take this on. Once the messageboard/FAQ forum is up and running any number of fans can create processes to automate an export of the thread to PDF format. We have several people working on our site now with that capability and if there was sufficient demand I'm certain we could have something up very quickly. Right now I'm more interested in seeing ANY sort of faq, be that bread crumbs arranged in the form of letters, excrement scrawled on a wall, a simple text file, a forum post, what have you... Ah ain't picky :)
With CutePDF, anyone can make a PDF :)
With CutePDF, anyone can make a PDF :)
If you use Open Office (free, open source office suite), exporting as a PDF is built in.
As well as any number of online converters. (I haven't tried any of these.)
No matter how you choose to do it, creating a PDF is available to all.
There's certainly a demand from a subset of our customers for a "Savage Species" style book... but there's also demands for numerous other types of books as well. It's certainly not something we've got coming out this year, nor is it something we're working on yet for next year... but maybe some day...
I understand totally that you guys are constrained by the numerous projects for PF and I'm not trying to put pressure on for a SS book. Maybe one day, but that's totally cool. In the next two or so years tho, we just want to know that we're doing it (templates) within the rules, not just for PC's, but for monsters and NPC's too.
The half-dragon template is easy - +2 CR. no problem. But the progression for a half-fiend needs clarification. Any chance?
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What part do you not understand?
In both cases (Celestial/Fiendish), the CR adjustment is based on the creatures HD, (because higher HD gets you more powerful option, like Spell-Like Abilities and better DR).
If the base creature has
1-04 HD, then it's CR is +1
5-10 HD, then it's CR is +2, and
10 + HD, then it's CR is +3.
That is it.
What part do you not understand?
In both cases (Celestial/Fiendish), the CR adjustment is based on the creatures HD, (because higher HD gets you more powerful option, like Spell-Like Abilities and better DR).
If the base creature has
1-04 HD, then it's CR is +1
5-10 HD, then it's CR is +2, and
10 + HD, then it's CR is +3.
That is it.
Beckett, you should probably go back and reread the thread about this portion.
The question is not, what CR do I apply if I make a Minotaur Fiendish.
The question was how does the template interact when you apply it to a Monster PC, whose HD goes up over time, but who's CR drops over time, per the rules on page 313.
Do you use the initial +1 and never adjust it, or do you do a yo-yo effect of lowering the CR at 3hd and then boosting it again at 5hd only to lower it again at 6hd, etc.
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Beckett, you should probably go back and reread the thread about this portion.
The question is not, what CR do I apply if I make a Minotaur Fiendish.
The question was how does the template interact when you apply it to a Monster PC, whose HD goes up over time, but who's CR drops over time, per the rules on page 313.
Do you use the initial +1 and never adjust it, or do you do a yo-yo effect of lowering the CR at 3hd and then boosting it again at 5hd only to lower it again at 6hd, etc.
First of all, i want to make clear that i'm not trying to spark up the discussion on whether or not (and when) there will be a 'savage species' type book, and whether that's good or not. I simply would like clarification on how the guidelines on p.313-314 of the Beastiary work (or are intended to work) in relation to the half-fiend and half-celestial templates. It's good that the CR+ increases with level, but it's made it VERY confusing.
And that is specifically why I ask. . .
What part do you not understand?
. . . I wasn't trying to be rude, just not sure what the question was supossed to be actually asking.
First of all, i want to make clear that i'm not trying to spark up the discussion on whether or not (and when) there will be a 'savage species' type book, and whether that's good or not. I simply would like clarification on how the guidelines on p.313-314 of the Beastiary work (or are intended to work) in relation to the half-fiend and half-celestial templates. It's good that the CR+ increases with level, but it's made it VERY confusing.And that is specifically why I ask. . .
What part do you not understand?. . . I wasn't trying to be rude, just not sure what the question was supossed to be actually asking.
Ah, ok, it came across as a little high horse. :)
That is the question though. Here, let me give you an example.
Human Half-Fiend at 1st level. He's CR 1/2. Add the template and he becomes +1 CR. That means he's 1+1/2 CR, so he has to be treated as a 2nd level character (1 class level, and 1 CR level). Per the rules, every 3 class levels he loses one CR, up to half his starting CR.
So between 2nd and 3rd class level, he drops to 0 CR and is a 3rd level character with no adjustments.
But, at 5th class level, he suddenly jumps up a +1 CR, which means he's a 6th level character. So how do you handle that in game? He doesn't level until 7th level? Or what?
Then, again, at 10th class level (11th character level) he goes up by +1 CR, which makes him a 12th level character. Again you have the issue of what to do? Does he not level again for two levels? And, the rules on 313 say you get rid of up to half your CR adjustment over time. Well, he's not not done so, he's got a net +2CR which, had he attained the template at 10th level, he'd have gained +3CR allowing him to reduce it by +2 over six levels.
You can see where this is confusing yes? That was the question originally asked, how do these two rules interact.
He doesn't lose CR, he gains an extra level. Completely different statement.
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He doesn't lose CR, he gains an extra level. Completely different statement.That is what I thought. I almost responded three times, but kept wondering am I reading this wrong.
In Pathfinder, the XP system for killing monster is a straight number. In 3E, it was based off of CR vs the party level and number. Now that each monster, or each monster CR has a straight XP value, the character level/effective level really do not matter that much. Plus, when it mentions giving a CR as effective levels, it is talking mostly about to equal out against other player levels. Yes, their CR does go up slightly over 20 levels, but it really doesn't gain them anything.
As for them gainig a level, I think that is if they have monster Hit Dice only. Monster Hit Dice do turn ou to usually be worse than Class levels, especially in the long run. I think the only exception is Dragon Hit Dice. Even Outsider Hit Dice kind of suck now.
Again, not trying to come of as rude, just trying to explain it as I understand it.
Tanis, and anyone who's interested, I have attempted to map out the progression for those templates. Please see this post, also in the Rules Questions forum.
Once again, if you look at my thread here, I have attempted a full mapping out of how this relates to a PC as he progresses in character levels.
It may not be perfect but it is a step by step guide on how I understand it to work, and would appreciate constructive criticism, maybe even an official opinion?
It occurs to me that page 297 is the one you really want.
(not rude at all, we are simply discussing what is what in the book.)
It occurs to me that page 297 is the one you really want.
(not rude at all, we are simply discussing what is what in the book.)
why would that be rude?
anyway, i'm AFB at the mo. what, specifically are you talking about?
Page 297 refers to 'determining creature role', 'advancing monsters by adding class levels', and 'determine cr'.
This is great for advancing monsters as opponents, but we are talking about advancing a PC. Either way comments for each section of that page:
* Determine the role - easy enough and I'm sure not what you were reffering to.
* Advancing monsters by adding class levels - that is what is happening anyway.
* Determine CR - using these rules is a bit iffy for PC's, for instance a bugbear with rogue levels. Would all the rogue levels contribute half as much to the CR? In other words, a bugbear rogue20 would be CR 10?
He doesn't lose CR, he gains an extra level. Completely different statement.
Yes, but, the way it works is, he is not supposed to have a CR + Class Level > the rest of the party. So, when his CR goes up, his CR + Class Level goes up, which means he's now a 'level' higher than the party, which he's not supposed to do. So how do you handle that? Hold him back a level? And then, after 6 levels he's supposed to gain a level to bring him back in line with the party.
Regardless of the terminology (I personally prefer CR = Virtual Class Level) the fact his CR get's adjusted as he goes up in hit dice throws a monkey wrench into the whole thing.
He doesn't lose CR, he gains an extra level. Completely different statement.Yes, but, the way it works is, he is not supposed to have a CR + Class Level > the rest of the party. So, when his CR goes up, his CR + Class Level goes up, which means he's now a 'level' higher than the party, which he's not supposed to do. So how do you handle that? Hold him back a level? And then, after 6 levels he's supposed to gain a level to bring him back in line with the party.
Regardless of the terminology (I personally prefer CR = Virtual Class Level) the fact his CR get's adjusted as he goes up in hit dice throws a monkey wrench into the whole thing.
and herein lies the problem. like Camper Joe says, being a CR>party is a bad thing from a gaining xp perspective, just doesn't seem right tho.
can't wait for that FAQ thread...some OFFICIAL clarification one way or another is what we need.
No. Becket was talking about the CR of a monster and how to determine such presumably for NPCs.
After we know the CR we know it's "level equivalency". After that you add character levels as you level up. Every time you hit the midpoint of your third level you gain an extra level but are treated as if you are the same level as everyone else (if in a mixed group). This happens until he has 1/2 of his CR in these "bonus" levels, at which point he gains no more. The idea is these keep him "even" from the lose of usefulness of the racial bonuses.
This is by pages 313 and 314.
So he will have "bonus" levels but these don't actually count against his CR (supposedly because the racial stuff is less useful as he gains levels).
Where does it say that a party has to all be the same level?
And in 3.5, if 4 players were at level 5 and one of them would acquire a template with LA+1, that would make him a level higher than the party. Would you then not allow it ever? And thus errata out all the acquired templates in the entire game for non-new characters?
Also, a half-fiend's template increases in power as he gains levels, so it is fair that at some points he jumps ahead. It would be unfair if he gained all his extra powers while not taking extra penalties.
And yes, his level gain would be a penalty to him. He earns less XP, has longer to go to his next level, and the other members of his party earn more XP.
No. Becket was talking about the CR of a monster and how to determine such presumably for NPCs.
After we know the CR we know it's "level equivalency". After that you add character levels as you level up. Every time you hit the midpoint of your third level you gain an extra level but are treated as if you are the same level as everyone else (if in a mixed group). This happens until he has 1/2 of his CR in these "bonus" levels, at which point he gains no more. The idea is these keep him "even" from the lose of usefulness of the racial bonuses.
This is by pages 313 and 314.
So he will have "bonus" levels but these don't actually count against his CR (supposedly because the racial stuff is less useful as he gains levels).
I understand what Beckett was talking about, but I was just pointing out that Tanis was talking about PCs in his original post, and that Beckett had missed that.
Sheesh. I understand how the rules work for PCs on p313, no need to regurgitate them over and over again. I was pointing out that there was a misconception on Beckett's part that this was an NPC that was being discussed and that it was instead a PC and why the rules on p313 were harder to apply because of the HD dependent nature of the +CR bonus. And again, I understand the whole 'Bonus Level' thing, but the point remains that if he were making the character from scratch at level 12 he'd have different combinations of CL with CR adjustment than if he created it at Level 1 (if you strictly follow the rules on 313 and 314).
Anyway, I'm tired of this thread, if you see no issue with changing CR meshing poorly with 313 and 314, then more power to you and hooray and hoozah.
Where does it say that a party has to all be the same level?
And in 3.5, if 4 players were at level 5 and one of them would acquire a template with LA+1, that would make him a level higher than the party. Would you then not allow it ever? And thus errata out all the acquired templates in the entire game for non-new characters?
Page 313. If you build the person a half-fiend at level 1, and then when the party is level 12 you build someone else a half-celestial, they will have different CR/CL combinations if you strictly follow the rules as presented on p313/314 due to the CR modifications for the template. That should not happen.
But again, if you feel that is just hunkey dorey in your games, more power to you. And I have never had anyone gain a template in my games. I don't know of any templates in 3.5 you can get that don't turn you into an NPC (vampire, werewolf are the only two I can think of, and those state turn you into an npc). Every other 'acquired' template in the game that I know of is something that you are born with (like woodling for example).
... I don't know of any templates in 3.5 you can get that don't turn you into an NPC (vampire, werewolf are the only two I can think of, and those state turn you into an npc). Every other 'acquired' template in the game that I know of is something that you are born with (like woodling for example).
There's several ways that I know of.
There was material in one of the books (Unearthed Arcana, I think) that dealt with remaking characters via "special locations."
Secondly, the Godtraps article from Dungeon #150 had a second mechanism, a machine that harnesses the power of outsiders.
Lastly, depending on your DM, a miracle or wish could do the trick.
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No. Becket was talking about the CR of a monster and how to determine such presumably for NPCs.
I understand what Beckett was talking about, but I was just pointing out that Tanis was talking about PCs in his original post, and that Beckett had missed that.
Sheesh. I understand how the rules work for PCs on p313, no need to regurgitate them over and over again. I was pointing out that there was a misconception on Beckett's part that this was an NPC that was being discussed and that it was instead a PC
No I didn't. I was talking about a PC. Where are you guys getting NPC from?
The CR will be higher, but what I am saying is, does that matter? It doesn't affect how much XP said character will get, because in PF, it is not based off of your level like in 3E. A troll is worth 1,600 XP. Doesn't matter if the character is level one or level 20, the troll is still worth 1,600 XP.
The monsterous character doesn't get free xp when they "level up" CR. CR doesn't help any class abilities out any.
No I didn't. I was talking about a PC. Where are you guys getting NPC from?The CR will be higher, but what I am saying is, does that matter? It doesn't affect how much XP said character will get, because in PF, it is not based off of your level like in 3E. A troll is worth 1,600 XP. Doesn't matter if the character is level one or level 20, the troll is still worth 1,600 XP.
The monsterous character doesn't get free xp when they "level up" CR. CR doesn't help any class abilities out any.
It seems there was some confusion. I thought you were talking about NPCs as well, so it's not an isolated incident. Ok, I know I said I was done posting, but let me try to show, yet again, where it can be complicated.
Hmmm, ok, the reason I see a problem is thus :
I'm a 1st class level character coming into a game where everyone is 2nd level. I have a +1 CR so I'm equal with the 2nd level people. I advance as if I was a second level character (So I need as much EXP to get my 2nd class level as everyone else needs to get to 3rd level). Then, on my way to 4th character level I gain an extra class level half-way (my CR goes away in other words), so I hit 4th level with everyone else.
So far, everything is fine.
I hit 5th class level, and suddenly I gain a +1 CR. The problem is, how do I handle that? Because, if I just add on a CR, do I progress as if I were 5th level like everyone else despite the CR increase, or do I suddenly jump in EXP to 6th level and then gain a 6th class level when I hit 7th exp level, or do I have to gain exp for 6 and then 7th to gain a level?
I have no problem with a character gaining a +1 CR, other than how does that effect his EXP. As you point out, it doesn't affect how much exp he's awarded, it affects when he levels and gains a class level. If he ignores the CR effect and continues to advance like the other players, then the CR increase is meaningless, and not exactly fair to the other players who aren't getting those nifty new abilities with no penalty. On the other hand, I can't just give him a level's worth of EXP to make him 6th level either. And it seems mean to make him earn 2 levels worth of EXP before he gets another level, although honestly that really is kind of how it should work.
Then, at the 10th hit die level, it get's even more complicated, because while the +1 CR at 5th level can't be bought off, the one at 10th level does come off in 3 levels, so it's basically require 2 levels to level and then give a class level halfway between 14 and 15. Again, it's a complicated mess. Which was all that was trying to be pointed out and a request for a statement from James/Jason on how to handle it would be appreciated, even if it's just a personal opinion and not anything official.
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MDT,
I think you're overthinking this. To my mind, it looks clear to me that when you gain a 'free' level, you also reduce the CR by one to represent the fact that "the value of racial Hit Dice and abilities diminish as a character gains levels".
Thus, you remain at the same level as everyone else. Simples, no?
MDT,
I think you're overthinking this. To my mind, it looks clear to me that when you gain a 'free' level, you also reduce the CR by one to represent the fact that "the value of racial Hit Dice and abilities diminish as a character gains levels".Thus, you remain at the same level as everyone else. Simples, no?
Yes, for everything except Half-Fiend/Half-Celestial.
The reason that those two are different is the CR adjustment is variable. It is based on your hit dice.
Using the Wish or Miracle idea above (which I haven't responded to yet, but will), if you were to apply the template using Miracle to a 3rd level character, that character would gain a +1 CR. If you waited until the exact same character was instead 12th level, they would gain a +3 CR. The reason for that is the template gives you special abilities that are based on your hit dice, and so it provides way more power to a 12th hit die creature than a 2nd hit die creature, and so the CR adjust is scaled.
Not so simple, no?
... I don't know of any templates in 3.5 you can get that don't turn you into an NPC (vampire, werewolf are the only two I can think of, and those state turn you into an npc). Every other 'acquired' template in the game that I know of is something that you are born with (like woodling for example).There's several ways that I know of.
There was material in one of the books (Unearthed Arcana, I think) that dealt with remaking characters via "special locations."
Nope, that was basically redoing your classes if I remember correctly, not adding templates. But, even if it was, it wasn't core rules, it was optional GM approved rules. And the GM can always just grant a template if he wants.
Secondly, the Godtraps article from Dungeon #150 had a second mechanism, a machine that harnesses the power of outsiders.
Again, not in core rules, third party contribution. And again, GM can allow or disallow.
Lastly, depending on your DM, a miracle or wish could do the trick.
Yep, GM can do whatever he wants. I'd say though that this is the most likely way to legally get a template in the core rules.
Again, it's a complicated mess. Which was all that was trying to be pointed out and a request for a statement from James/Jason on how to handle it would be appreciated, even if it's just a personal opinion and not anything official.
Anyway, I'm tired of this thread, if you see no issue with changing CR meshing poorly with 313 and 314, then more power to you and hooray and hoozah.
+1
i guess we'll just houserule it... still some official response would've been nice to this awful mess. whatever.
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To clarify, all the components of a Spring Attack (move - attack - move) are part of a single action (which is a Full Round Action?), and the 'contained' attack is on par with an Iterative Attack or AoO (i.e. you may not perform an attack action, as one could in 3.5)?The move part of a Spring Attack is a move equivalent action. The attack part is effectively a standard action (and yes, it's just a plain, vanilla atatck). They kinda blend together to be your entire round's worth of actions.
Question: Since Spring Attack uses a balance equivalent of Charge (move and attack), can Spring Attack be used in a surprise round in the same way you can charge?
I ask because the text of Redcaps implies that their favorite move is to Spring Attack from ambush positions, but the RAW seems to disqualify it.
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This question is not a debate on wither spring attack is good or not its a question on if spring attack negates all attacks of oppertunities from the target of attack even if it has reach?(10ft,15ft or more for example)
".. without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target .."
The feat says nothing about reach or being adjacent to the target. It negates any attacks of opportunity.This means that you have to specify who you're attacking, at the latest, when you claim immunity to his AoO while moving in.