Why do eidolons have a weapon proficiency evolution when all outsiders are proficient with simple weapons and martial weapons by default (as per their creature type)?
They are not auto proficient in any weapons. Most outsiders are but not all. This would be one of them special cases
It is not the only exception, Outsiders with No HD also do not gain them. But it's not like it's an normal outsider to start with now is it?
Creative Director
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Why do eidolons have a weapon proficiency evolution when all outsiders are proficient with simple weapons and martial weapons by default (as per their creature type)?
Like animal companions, eidolons don't exactly follow the rules for monster creation. They can't because they have to be balanced as PC tools.
Allowing a monster to use weapons is INCREDIBLY good, especially if the monster's got access to a lot of other natural attacks. In fact, attack bloat is probably the most broken part of the eidolon; I've got one in a game I'm running now, and the fact that the eidolon basically has 4 attacks a round at level 5 is really rather excessive. Since wielded weapons grant iterative attacks, they really extend that number of attacks out, and so there needs to be SOME sort of check and balance against them in the eidolon rules.
And nothing's yet written in stone, of course. We've got a few more months to fix this stuff and really look over and study the playtest feedback... an eidolon's weapon rules could change still. We'll see come Gen Con what ends up being what!
Allowing a monster to use weapons is INCREDIBLY good, especially if the monster's got access to a lot of other natural attacks.
I have a player making a Summoner for our next game who picked up Martial Weapon Proficiency (Great Axe) as one of the eidolon's feats. While it's not all martial weapons, it seemed like a cheap shortcut around the weapon proficiency evolution. Any thoughts as to whether this is a loophole--or is the feat cost fair? I too am worried about the eidolon dominating the table through multiple attacks.
Any thoughts as to whether this is a loophole--or is the feat cost fair?
Consider the relative price.
An Eidolon gets 8 feats and 26 evolution points over the course of its progression. Spending 1 feat is thus roughly equivalent to spending 3.25 evolution points. For the price of 1 feat, you get a single weapon proficiency. For the price of 4 evolution points, you get ALL simple AND martial weapon proficiencies.
Seems relatively balanced to me, considering that there's a sharp diminishing returns on the usefulness of additional weapon proficiencies. That's assuming that the evolution point cost is balanced to start with, of course, but I think it is. The attacks cap just needs to apply to manufactured as well as natural weapon attacks.
We'll see come Gen Con what ends up being what!
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Why do eidolons have a weapon proficiency evolution when all outsiders are proficient with simple weapons and martial weapons by default (as per their creature type)?Like animal companions, eidolons don't exactly follow the rules for monster creation. They can't because they have to be balanced as PC tools.
Allowing a monster to use weapons is INCREDIBLY good, especially if the monster's got access to a lot of other natural attacks. In fact, attack bloat is probably the most broken part of the eidolon; I've got one in a game I'm running now, and the fact that the eidolon basically has 4 attacks a round at level 5 is really rather excessive. Since wielded weapons grant iterative attacks, they really extend that number of attacks out, and so there needs to be SOME sort of check and balance against them in the eidolon rules.
And nothing's yet written in stone, of course. We've got a few more months to fix this stuff and really look over and study the playtest feedback... an eidolon's weapon rules could change still. We'll see come Gen Con what ends up being what!
While you are here on the subject James, is my aasimar/tiefling wizard proficient in all martial weapons since he is an outsider? EDIT: Just noticed that you said "no" because "they have to have racial hit dice to get that benefit" in another thread. Thanks for your help!
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The attacks cap just needs to apply to manufactured as well as natural weapon attacks.I can't wait to see how many people jump on this statement with flamethrowers...
Perhaps 8 is the right number? 4 Natural and 4 manufactured(or 8 if they go TWP all the way).
4. One main, one iterative, and two corresponding TWF attacks. And only Full BAB classes can get them.
Oh wait, you were talking eidolons. :)