Arbitrary Scenario (Another way to compare classes)


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


The DRP olympics was a great thread with a lot of useful information. Based on that thread, I came up with a scenario for use in comparing classes....

You and your party have reached the BBEW(Big Bad Evil Wizard). You are ready to take him down, there is only 1 big problem. The rest of your party is completely retarded.

- Your rogue thought it would be cool to get the wizard and cleric to turn his toothpicks into +2 keen toothpicks and dual wield them. They agreed.
- Your cleric wasted all her spells healing the random injured woodland creatures the BBEW left in your path. Blast that the BBEW knew her one fatal weakness!
- Your Sorcerer wasted his spells for the day casting magic missle at the darkness.

In short, it is all on you to save the day and you cannot count on your party for anything. Time to show them the light of your min/maxing ways.

The goal of this exercise to to deal the maximum amount of damage you can over the course of the fight. The point is to explore the trade offs different classes have to make when trying to maximize their damage in a somewhat realistic situation. Most fights are decided in the first 3 to 4 rounds, so every decision you make(whether to buff or attack) in those rounds matters.

Character Rules:

- All character are level 10. This is mainly so we can reuse builds from here.
- All character will use an Elite array(15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8)
- All character must have +8 minimum on all saves.
- Ranged damage dealers must have a 22 AC and 60 HP
- Melee damage dealers much have a 25 AC and 80 HP
- For every 10 extra HP you have, you can drop the required AC by 1.
- Characters with damage reduction can add their DR to their HP total.
- Characters with energy resists can add half their highest resist value to their HP total.
- If you do anything that would injure or heal yourself over the course of the fight(like using vicious weapons), subtract this from your total health.
- Evasion is worth 10 extra health.
- You have full use of your class abilities that are limited use per day.
- Standard equipment value for a level 10(62,000 gold value)
- No items that are limited use per day(Assume you usually get these buffs from your party when they are not being idiots)
- Any spells with a duration of more that 60 minutes total are assumed to be cast before you walked into the BBEW hideout, and are still up.
- You can 1 expendable item worth up to 200 gold. If your class could not normally use this item, then your class must have Use Magic Device as a class skill.
- No custom items.
- No quickened spells(At level 10, quickened spells are more of a gimmick than a serious feat)

You have 2 targets. The Big Bad Evil Wizard(BBEW) and his henchman Maury Meatshield(MM).

BBEW:

Level 10 human wizard
STR: 8 (-1)
DEX: 18 (+4) (13 base +1 level +4 belt)
CON: 14 (+2)
INT: 22 (+6) (15 base +2 racial +1 level +4 hat)
WIS: 12 (+1)
CHA: 10 (+0)

HP: 67 HP (10d6+20)

Saving Throws(with Cloak of Resist +3)
Fort: +8 Ref: +10 Will: +11

AC: 22 - Touch 16, Flatfooted 18 (10 + 4(Mage Armor) +4(Dex) +2(Ring) +2(Amulet))


MM:

level 10 human fighter(basically Falchion Fred with sword and board)
Ability Scores:
STR: 22 (+6) (15 base, +2 racial, +1 level, +4 belt)
DEX: 14 (+2) (13 base, +1 level)
CON: 14 (+2)
INT: 10 (+0)
WIS: 12 (+1)
CHA: 8 (-1)

HP: 89 HP (10d10+30)

Saving Throws
Fort: +11 Ref: +7 Will: +8 (+10 against fear, 1/day reroll)

AC: 29 - Touch 13, Flatfooted 25 (+10(+1 full plate) +3(Heavy Steel Shield +1) +2(Dex) +1(Amulet) +1(Ring of Protection) +1(Dodge))

Weapon Longsword +3
To hit: +10(BAB) +6(Strength) +2(feats) +3(weapon) +2(weapon training) = +23/+18
Damage: 1d8 +3(weapon) +6(Strength) +2(feat) +2(weapon training) = 17.5 damage
Power Attack is -3/+6.


Scenario Rules:

- Positioning, you are standing 20 feet from MM, and the BBEW is 60 feet away from you on the other side of MM.
- Buffing Round, the BBEW is giving a speech about how you cannot possible defeat him, his Plot Armor(thanks to whoever posted that link BTW) is way too strong for you. During this time, you have 1 round to perform any non-aggressive actions you want. You cannot move forward or do anything that targets the BBEW or MM while he is making his speech.
- Round 1, actual combat starts. The BBEW is impervious to damage at this time. MM is 20 feet away from you and flat footed. If you do not close to melee with MM, he will charge you when his turn comes up. If you have a +6 initiative bonus, then you get to go before MM and he is flat footed.
- Round 2, combat continues. During this round, you will be getting flanking bonuses from a fellow party member.
- Round 3, the one of your party members remembers they have a scroll of plot armor dispelling. They pull it out and use it, making the BBEW vulnerable to attacks. The BBEW blasts you with a spell, and MM dies from the not so friendly fire(if he is not already dead).
- Round 4 is the final round of combat. Just you and the BBEW left standing.

Misc rules:

- If you are going to use a save or lose effects(IE any spell that effectively removes the target from play), you must have a 80% chance of it succeeding before you can assume it succeeds. For example, you cast Hold Person on MM and it has a 60% chance to succeed. If you cast it twice, it only has a 16% chance of failing both times, and thus has 84% chance at least 1 casting will succeed. For this exercise, you would have to cast it twice.
- If you succeed with a save or lose effect, assume the target was at 75% health when you succeed. IE the spell does damage effectively equal to 75% of the targets health for total damage done purposes.
- When using mind influencing effects, assume the worst case. IE MM doesn't want to attack his old pal BBEW, and will get another save if you tell him to.
- If you manage to kill MM in round 1, then skip round 2, and move directly to round 3.
- If you manage to kill the BBEW in round 3, skip round 4.

Results
- Calculate your average DPR for each round. Calculate what a +1 to hit, and +1 to damage would give you. If you made a full round attack that round, calculate what an extra attack would give you.
- Average the results for each round of the normal rounds over the whole fight. Do not calculate in the buffing round or skipped rounds. Do count normal combat rounds that you use a non-damaging spell(IE you did 0 damage for round 1 if you choose to cast a buff spell that round)
- Calculate in crits. For example, for melee use the formula (Avg. Damage + Avg. Crit Bonus Damage * Min(threat chance,hit chance)) * hit chance.


First Example, I am using Falchion Fred from the DPR Olympics

Falchion Fred:

Ability Scores:
STR: 22 (+6) (15 base, +2 racial, +1 level, +4 belt)
DEX: 14 (+2) (13 base, +1 level)
CON: 14 (+2)
INT: 10 (+0)
WIS: 12 (+1)
CHA: 8 (-1)

HP: 89 HP (10d10+30)

Saving Throws
Fort: +11 Ref: +7 Will: +8 (+10 against fear, 1/day reroll)

AC: 25 - Touch 14, Flatfooted 22 (+10 +1 full plate, +2 dex, +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, +1 Ring of Protection, +1 Dodge)

Attacks: Falchion +23/+18, 2d4+16 dmg (15-20/x2)

Class Abilities:
Weapon Training +2 (heavy blades)
Weapon Training +1 (bows)
Armor Training 2

BAB: +10 CMB: +16 CMD: 28

Feats:
Weapon Focus (falchion)
Weapon Specialization (falchion)
Power Attack
Improved Critical (falchion)
Critical Focus
Improved Initiative
Iron Will
Improved Iron Will
Greater Weapon Focus (falchion)
Dodge
Lunge
Step Up

Skills:
Some stuff

Gear:
+3 falchion
Belt of +4 str
+1 full plate
Cloak of Resistance +2
Handy Haversack
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
Masterwork composite longbow (+6 str mod)
Ring of Protection +1
1000 GP in miscellaneous consumables, gear, non-portable goods, etc.

Buffing Round: Fred uses a Potion of Enlarge Person. This gives him +2 strength, -2 dexterity, -1 to hit, -1 AC, reach, and makes his Falchion large(2d6 damage). There may be better potions, but I am playing my lazy card. Using power attack on all attacks. This brings the average damage on a normal hit to 32 with a 30% chance to threat for an extra 32 damage.

Round 1: Charge MM, 1 attack @ +22 for 29.12 average damage. +1 to hit gives 2.08 more damage, +1 to damage gives .91 more damage. Extra attack is not usuable.

Round 2: Full attack on MM with flank, 2 attacks at +22/+17 for 47.84 average damage. +1 to hit gives 4.16 more damage. +1 to damage gives 1.495 more damage. Extra attack gives 29.12 more damage.

Round 3: Charge BBEW, 1 attack @ +22 for 39.52 average damage. +1 to hit gives no more damage. +1 to damage gives 1.235 more damage. Extra attack is not usuable.

Round 4: Full attack on BBEW. 2 attacks at +20/+15 for 68.64 damage average. +1 to hit gives no damage increase. +1 to damage gives 2.145 more damage. Extra attack gives 39.52 more damage.

Overall: 46.28 average DPR. +1 to hit gives 1.56 more damage on average. +1 to damage gives 1.44625. An extra attack gives 17.135 more DPR on average.


Farshot Fallon from the DPR thread

Farshot Fallon:

Human fighter 10.

Ability Scores:
STR: 14 (+2) (13 base, +1 level)
DEX: 22 (+6) (15 base, +2 racial, +1 level, +4 belt)
CON: 14 (+2)
INT: 10 (+0)
WIS: 12 (+1)
CHA: 8 (-1)

HP: 89 HP (10d10+30)

Saving Throws
Fort: +11 Ref: +10 Will: +8 (+10 against fear, 1/day reroll)

AC: 24 - Touch 14, Flatfooted 21 (+10 +1 full plate, +3 dex, +1 Ring of Protection)

Attacks: Longbow +22(x2)/+22/+17, d8+9 dmg (19-20/x3)

Class Abilities:
Weapon Training +2 (bows)
Weapon Training +1 (heavy blades)
Armor Training 2

BAB: +10 CMB: +15 CMD: 28

Feats:
Weapon Focus (longbow)
Weapon Specialization (longbow)
Deadly Aim
Improved Critical (longbow)
Critical Focus
Point Blank Shot
Iron Will
Improved Iron Will
Greater Weapon Focus (longbow)
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Manyshot

Skills:
Some stuff

Gear:
+3 composite longbow (+2 str mod)
Belt of +4 dex
+1 full plate
Cloak of Resistance +2
Handy Haversack
Masterwork greatsword
Ring of Protection +1
Lesser Bracers of Archery
800 GP in miscellaneous consumables, gear, non-portable goods, etc.

I am going with a bless potion for a +1 to hit. Using deadly aim, and Rapid Shot. Damage per shot is 19.5 without point blank shot, 20.5 with PBS.

Round 1: Full attack against a flat-footed MM(AC25). 3 attacks at +19(x2)/+19/+14 with point blank shot. Average damage is 72.57 damage. +1 to hit gives 4.92 more damage. +1 to damage gives 3.78 more damage. Extra attack gives 19.68 more damage. FYI, the flat foot is worth 19.68 DPR.

Round 2: MM moves in, so tumbles away 10'. 1 attack attack at +19 with point blank shot. Average damage is 19.68. +1 to hit gives 1.23 more damage. +1 to damage gives 1.08 more damage. Extra attack cannot be used.

Alternate Round 2: Eat the AoOs and go full attack on MM. 3 attacks at +19(x2)/+19/+14 with point blank shot. Average damage is 47.97. +1 to hit gives 4.92 more damage. +1 damage gives 2.34 more damage. Extra attack is worth 13.53 more damage.

Round 3: Full attack on BBEW without point blank shot. 3 attacks at +18(x2)/+18/+13. Average is 77.49 damage. +1 to hit is a 4.68 increase in damage. +1 to damage is 3.78 more damage. An extra attack is worth 19.89 more damage

Round 4: Skipped because you are dancing on the BBEW's corpse.

Overall: Average DPR 56.58(66.01 if you eat the AoOs in round 2). +1 to hit is worth 3.61 average damage(4.84 if you take AoOs). +1 damage is worth 2.88 more average damage(3.30 with AoOs). An extra attack is worth 13.19 more average damage(17.7 with AoOs)


Tempest Ted for the DPR thread

Tempest Ted:

Human fighter 10.

Ability Scores:
STR: 20 (+5) (14 base, +2 racial, +4 belt)
DEX: 17 (+3) (15 base, +2 level)
CON: 13 (+1)
INT: 10 (+0)
WIS: 12 (+1)
CHA: 8 (-1)

HP: 89 HP (10d10+30)

Saving Throws
Fort: +11 Ref: +8 Will: +8 (+10 against fear)

AC: 25 - Touch 14, Flatfooted 22 (+10 +1 full plate, +3 dex, +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, +1 Ring of Protection)

Attacks: Kukri +19/+19/+14/+14, d4+11 dmg (15-20/x2)

Class Abilities:
Weapon Training +2 (light blades)
Weapon Training +1 (bows)
Armor Training 2

BAB: +10 CMB: +15 CMD: 28

Feats:
Weapon Focus (kukri)
Weapon Specialization (kukri)
Power Attack
Improved Critical (kukri)
Critical Focus
Two Weapon Fighting
Iron Will
Toughness
Greater Weapon Focus (kukri)
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Double Slice
Step Up

Skills:
Some stuff

Gear:
Two +2 kukris
Belt of +4 str
+1 full plate
Cloak of Resistance +2
Handy Haversack
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
Masterwork composite longbow (+6 str mod)
Ring of Protection +1
2734 GP in miscellaneous consumables, gear, non-portable goods, etc.

Buffing round: Potion of enlarge person brings damage up to 1d6 + 12 = 15.5 average. Using power attack on all attacks for 21.5 main hand, 18.5 offhand.

Round 1: Charge MM. 1 attack at +20 for 16.77 average damage. +1 to hit is worth 1.3975 more damage. A +1 to damage is worth .78 more damage. An extra attack cannot be used.

Round 2: Full attack on MM with a flank bonus. 4 attacks at +18/+18/+13/+13 for 39.00 average damage. A +1 to hit is worth 5.20 more damage. A +1 to damage is worth 1.95 more damage. An extra attack is worth 13.975 more damage.

Alternate Round 2: Full attack on MM with flank and no power attack. 4 attacks at +22/+22/+17/+17 for 46.345 average damage. A +1 to hit is worth 4.03 more damage. A +1 to damage is worth 2.99 more damage. An extra attack is worth 14.105 more damage.

Round 3: Charge BBEW. 1 attack at +20 for 26.5525 damage average. +1 to hit is worth no extra damage. A +1 to damage is worth 1.235 more damage. An extra attack cannot be used.

Round 4: Full attack on BBEW. 4 attacks at +16/+16/+13/+13 for 65.00 average damage. A +1 to hit is worth 5.2 more damage. A +1 to damage is worth 3.25 more damage. An extra attack is worth 20.9625 more damage.

Overall: Average damage per round 36.83(alternate is 38.67). +1 to hit is worth 3.26(2.97) more damage. A +1 to damage is worth 1.80(2.06) more damage. An extra attack is worth 8.73(8.77) more damage.


Prompted by the druid discussion...

Druid Dan from the DPR thread

Spoiler:

Druid Dan, human Druid 10
Ability Scores:
STR: 26 (+8) (15 base + 1 lvl +4 wildshape + 4 magic +2 human)
DEX: 10 (+0) (12 base – 2 wildshape)
CON: 14 (+2 ) (13 +1 lvl )
INT: 10 (0)
WIS: 18 (+4) (14 base +4 item)
CHA: 8 (-1)

HP: 78 HP (10d8+30)

Saving Throws
Fort: +10 Ref: +4 Will: +12
AC: 27 - Touch 9, Flatfooted 27 (+10 (+1 fullplate), +4 Natural Armor +4 Barkskin-1 size)

Attacks:
Bite +15 (-1 size +8 str + 7 BAB +1 Magic) 2d6 + 9
2 Claws +15 2d4+9
2Rakes ** +15 2d4+9

Special Attacks:
Rake, Pounce, Grab

Class Abilities:
Wildshape (Dire Tiger)
Full caster

BAB: +7 CMB: +16 CMD: 26

Feats:
Spell Focus conj
Augment Summoning
Step Up
Natural Spell
Heavy Armor Proficiency
Power Attack

Gear:
19,300 +1 Wild Fullplate (Dragonhide)
5,000 Amulet of Mighty Fists +1
16,000 Belt of Giant Str +4
16,000 Headband of Wisdom +4
2,000 Handy Haversack
1,000 Cloak of Resistance +1
2,000 Barding +1 chainshirt
700 gp of misc stuff

Buffs:
Barkskin
(Barkskin on AC, 3x GMF on AC)


Allan the Animal companion
Spoiler:

Big cat Animal Companion

Ability Scores:
STR: 24 (+7) (13 base +8 size +3 dru)
DEX: 19 (+4) (17 base – 2 size +4 dru)
CON: 16 (+3 ) (13 +2 size +1 lvl)
INT: 3 ( 2 +1 Lvl)
WIS: 15 (+2) (15 base )
CHA: 8 (-1)

HP: 76 HP (9d8+36)
Saving Throws
Fort: +6 Ref: +6 Will: +2
AC: 31 - Touch 13, Flatfooted 27 (5 armor +4 Dex +9 Natural Armor +4 Barkskin -1 size)

Attacks:
Bite +15 (-1 size +7 str + 7 BAB +1 Magic) 1d6 + 9
2 Claws +15 1d4+9
2Rakes ** +15 1d4+9

Special Attacks:
Rake, Pounce, Grab

BAB: +6 CMB: +13 CMD: 27

Feats:
Armor Prof Light
Toughness
Step Up
Power Attack


Sam the Summoned Ally
Spoiler:

Summoned Dire Lion
Str 29 25 base +4 augment summoning
Dex 15
Con 21 17 base +4 augment summoning
Int 2
Wis 12
Cha 10
Base Atk +6; CMB +14 (+18 grapple); CMD 26 (30 vs. trip)
Feats Improved Initiative, Run, Skill Focus (Perception), Weapon Focus (claw)

Speed 40 ft.
Melee bite +14 (1d8+9 plus grab), 2 claws +15 (1d6+9)
Special Attacks pounce, rake (2 claws +15, 1d6+9)

Buffing round, summon Sam.

Round 1 - Dan, Allan, and Sam pounce on MM.
Dan - 5 attacks at +17 to hit(+2 from charge). 2d6 + 8d4 + 45 = 72 damage, 75.6 damage with crits. Average damage is 34.02. +1 gives 3.78 DPR, +1 damage gives 2.25 more damage, an extra attack gives 7.2 more damage.
Allan - 5 attacks at +17 to hit(+2 from charge). 1d6 + 4d4 + 45 = 58.5 damage, 61.43 damage with crits. Average damage is 27.64. +1 gives 3.07 more damage, +1 damage gives 2.25 more damage, an extra attack gives 5.63 more damage
Sam - 1 attack at +16, 4 attacks at +17 to hit(+2 from charge). Bite 1d8 + 9 = 13.5, 14.175 with crits, claws 4d6 + 36 = 50, 52.5 with crits. Average damage 29.30. +1 to hit gives 3.33 more damage, +1 to damage gives 2.2 more damage, an extra attack gives 5.67 more damage.
Total - Average damage 90.96. +1 gives 10.18 more damage, +1 damage gives 6.7 more damage, and an extra attack gives 18.5 more damage.

Round 2 - MM is down at -1, but if MM had just a little more health.
8 attacks(no rakes) at a +15(no charge bonus) to hit for a total damage of 104.5, 109.725 with crits and 1 attack at a +14 to hit for 13.5 damage, 14.175 with crits. Average damage 42.66, +1 to hit gives 6.20 more damage, +1 to damage gives 3.1 more damage, and an extra attack gives 15.07 more damage

Round 3 - Pounce on the BBEW
14 attacks at a +17 to hit for total damage of 180.5, 189.53 with crits. 1 attack at a +16 to hit for 13.5 damage, 14.175 with crits.
Average damage 162.26 damage. A +1 to hit is worth 10.18 more damage, a +1 to damage is worth 11.95 more damage, and an extra attack is worth 32.8 more damage. If BBEW had stoneskin, it would have stopped the full 100 damage, leaving BBEW with 5 health left.

Round 4 - BBEW is now an ex wizard, but if he had stoneskin...
8 attacks at +15 to hit for total damage of 104.5, 109.725 with crits and 1 attack at a +14 to hit for 13.5 damage, 14.175 with crits. Average damage 86.02, +1 to hit gives 6.20, +1 to damage gives 6.25 more damage, and an extra attack gives 28.7 more damage.

Overall
Normal - 126.61 average DPR, +1 gives 10.18 average DPR, +1 damage gives 9.325 more DPR, an extra attack gives 25.65 more DPR
If MM survives round 1, 98.63 DPR, +1 to hit = 8.85 DPR, +1 damage = 7.25 DPR, +1 attack = 22.12 DPR
If BBEW has stoneskin, 79.75 average DPR.
If MM survives round 1 AND BBEW has stoneskin, 70.475 average DPR over 4 rounds.


Interesting. As a note, I would change tactics somewhat.

In all situations where you charge MM and are Large, I would instead charge BBEW, even thought I cannot hit him. This is because MM is going to charge me, I will get an AoO AND a full attack next round, all at -2 MM's AC.

That would put me in line to attack the BBEW with a full attack on Round 3.


Mirror, Mirror wrote:

Interesting. As a note, I would change tactics somewhat.

In all situations where you charge MM and are Large, I would instead charge BBEW, even thought I cannot hit him. This is because MM is going to charge me, I will get an AoO AND a full attack next round, all at -2 MM's AC.

That would put me in line to attack the BBEW with a full attack on Round 3.

I would rather charge BBEW on round 3, +2 to hit, and another 6 attacks from rakes. Druids actually get more attacks when they charge due to pounce.


Charender wrote:
Mirror, Mirror wrote:

Interesting. As a note, I would change tactics somewhat.

In all situations where you charge MM and are Large, I would instead charge BBEW, even thought I cannot hit him. This is because MM is going to charge me, I will get an AoO AND a full attack next round, all at -2 MM's AC.

That would put me in line to attack the BBEW with a full attack on Round 3.

I would rather charge BBEW on round 3, +2 to hit, and another 6 attacks from rakes. Druids actually get more attacks when they charge due to pounce.

For the druids, yes. I was referring to the fighters.

They get stuck charging, then eating a FRA. Since they have reach when enlarged, they can charge the BBEW, get the AoO when MM charges them, and have that attack plus a FRA at an effective +2 to hit.

It doesn't matter too much, but I think both Falchion Fred and Tempest Ted can beat the challenge in 3 rounds...


Mirror, Mirror wrote:
Charender wrote:
Mirror, Mirror wrote:

Interesting. As a note, I would change tactics somewhat.

In all situations where you charge MM and are Large, I would instead charge BBEW, even thought I cannot hit him. This is because MM is going to charge me, I will get an AoO AND a full attack next round, all at -2 MM's AC.

That would put me in line to attack the BBEW with a full attack on Round 3.

I would rather charge BBEW on round 3, +2 to hit, and another 6 attacks from rakes. Druids actually get more attacks when they charge due to pounce.

For the druids, yes. I was referring to the fighters.

They get stuck charging, then eating a FRA. Since they have reach when enlarged, they can charge the BBEW, get the AoO when MM charges them, and have that attack plus a FRA at an effective +2 to hit.

It doesn't matter too much, but I think both Falchion Fred and Tempest Ted can beat the challenge in 3 rounds...

Falchion Fred would drop the BBEW in 3 rounds. Tempest Ted would miss it by 2 HP. Of course, that would require some metagaming to know that MM would charge you and not one of your friends....


Charender wrote:
Falchion Fred would drop the BBEW in 3 rounds. Tempest Ted would miss it by 2 HP. Of course, that would require some metagaming to know that MM would charge you and not one of your friends...

Maybe, but after they screwed the way they did? Let them handle the minion for a bit.

This is more my playstyle coming in, but I always try to base the most damgerous opponent first (or whom I percieve to be the most dangerous). My logic is that:

1) I have teammates to back me up.
2) Putting pressure on the enemies shifts them from active to reactive.
3) If my guess is correct, the minions will soon be swarming me, trying to get me off the boss. Fireball my position.

And I always try to let the opposition come to me first, so I can try to get an AoO. The only exception is where the CR is so high the mooks can kill with a charge. Then I need to act defensively.


Mirror, Mirror wrote:
Charender wrote:
Falchion Fred would drop the BBEW in 3 rounds. Tempest Ted would miss it by 2 HP. Of course, that would require some metagaming to know that MM would charge you and not one of your friends...

Maybe, but after they screwed the way they did? Let them handle the minion for a bit.

This is more my playstyle coming in, but I always try to base the most damgerous opponent first (or whom I percieve to be the most dangerous). My logic is that:

1) I have teammates to back me up.
2) Putting pressure on the enemies shifts them from active to reactive.
3) If my guess is correct, the minions will soon be swarming me, trying to get me off the boss. Fireball my position.

And I always try to let the opposition come to me first, so I can try to get an AoO. The only exception is where the CR is so high the mooks can kill with a charge. Then I need to act defensively.

Good points, but....

1. You cannot hurt the BBEW on round 1 or 2. Why would his minion come after you when you are not a threat to the boss?

2. BBEW is 60 feet away. That puts him just out of charge/move range if you are in heavy armor. If you have to move diagonally to go around MM without provoking, you end up 25-30 feet away from BBEW after a double move.

3. In this case, your teammates cannot back you up.


Due to the recent discussion about Holy Warriors...

Corey Cleaver level 10 human Holy Warrior of Gorum

Spoiler:

Str 22 (15 base + 2 racial + 1 level +4 magic)
Dex 12
Con 14 (13 base + 1 level)
Int 8
Wis 16 (14 base + 2 magic)
Chr 10

HP: 80 HP (10d10+20)

Saving Throws
Fort: +11 Ref: +8 Will: +11

AC: 25 - Touch 13, Flatfooted 24 (+11 +2 fullplate, +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, +2 Ring of Protection, +1 dex)

Attacks: Falchion +20/+15, 2d4+9 dmg (15-20/x2)
Power Attack: Falchion +17/+12, 2d4+18 dmg (15-20/x2)

BAB: +10 CMB: +16 CMD: 27

Feats:
Heavy Armor Profiency
Weapon Profiency(Falchion)
Weapon Focus (Falchion)
Power Attack
Improved Critical (Falchion)
Lightning Reflexes

Skills:
Some stuff

Gear:
+3 Falchion
Belt of Strength +4
+2 Full Plate
Cloak of Resistance +1
Circlet of Wisdom +2
Handy Haversack
Amulet of Natural armor +1
Ring of Protection +2
1000 GP in miscellaneous consumables, gear, non-portable goods, etc.

Buffing Round: Corey casts Divine Power +3/+3 and an extra attack with a full attack and 10 temporary hit points.

Round 1: Charge MM, 1 attack @ +22 for 23.66 average damage. +1 to hit gives 1.69 more damage, +1 to damage gives .91 more damage. Extra attack is not usuable.

Round 2: Full attack on MM with flank, 3 attacks at +22/+22/+17 for 62.53 average damage. +1 to hit gives 5.07 more damage. +1 to damage gives 2.41 more damage. Extra attack is not usuable, because Corey already has haste bonus.

Round 3: Charge BBEW, 1 attack @ +22 for 32.11 average damage. +1 to hit gives no more damage. +1 to damage gives 1.235 more damage. Extra attack is not usuable.

Round 4: Full attack on BBEW. 3 attacks at +20/+20/+15 for 82.81 damage average. +1 to hit gives 5.07 more damage. +1 to damage gives 3.19 more damage. Extra attack is not usuable, because Corey already has haste bonus.

Overall: 50.28 average DPR. +1 to hit gives 2.96 more damage on average. +1 to damage gives 1.94. Extra attack is not usuable, because Corey already has haste bonus.

Alternate approach

Round 1: Cast Righteous Might, and move into melee range of MM, no attacks. Gain +4 strength, and weapon damage becomes 2d6 from size increase. Net gain of +1 to hit(+2 strength, -1 size), +5 damage.

Round 2: Full attack on MM with flank, 3 attacks at +23/+23/+18 for 80.6 average damage. +1 to hit gives 6.05 more damage. +1 to damage gives 2.6 more damage. Extra attack is not usuable, because Corey already has haste bonus.

Round 3: Charge BBEW, 1 attack @ +23 for 38.29 average damage. +1 to hit gives no more damage. +1 to damage gives 1.235 more damage. Extra attack is not usuable.

Round 4: Full attack on BBEW. 3 attacks at +21/+21/+16 for 104.78 damage average. +1 to hit gives no damage increase. +1 to damage gives 3.38 more damage. Extra attack is not usuable, because Corey already has haste bonus.

Overall: 55.92 average DPR. +1 to hit gives 1.51 more damage on average. +1 to damage gives 1.81. Extra attack is not usuable, because Corey already has haste bonus.


Clarissa, human cleric of Erastil 10 from the DPR thread

Spoiler:

Ability Scores:
STR: 14 (+2) (13 base, +1 level)
DEX: 20 (+5) (15 base, +1 level, +4 belt)
CON: 12 (+1)
INT: 8 (-1)
WIS: 18 (+4) (+2 racial, +2 hat)
CHA: 10 (+0)

HP: 68 HP (10d8+20)

Saving Throws
Fort: +8 Ref: +8 Will: +11

AC: 23 - Touch 15, Flatfooted 18 (+8 +2 mithral breastplate, +5 dex)

Attacks with Rapid Shot: Longbow +15(x2)/+15/+10, d8+5 (20/x3)
Attacks with Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim: +13(x2)/+13/+8 1d8+9(20/x3)

BAB: +7 CMB: +9 CMD: 24

Feats:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Deadly Aim
Weapon Focus(Longbow)
Manyshot

Skills:
Not much

Gear:
+3 composite longbow (+2 str mod)
Belt of +4 dex
Lesser bracers of archery
Mithral breastplate (with Magic Vestment making it +2)
Hat of +2 wis
Handy Haversack
14000 GP in miscellaneous consumables, gear, non-portable goods, etc.

Note: Righteous Might gives no benefit to archer clerics unless they carry a second bow to take advantage of the extra strength, and even then they are taking a -2 to hit to get +2 damage.

Buffing Round: Divine Power +3/+3, extra attack, and 10 temp HP.

Round 1: Full attack on a flat-footed MM 4 attacks at +19(x2)/+19/+19/+14 for an average DPR of 58.99. A +1 to hit gives 4.54 more damage. +1 to damage gives 3.58 more damage.

Round 2: Eat the AoO, and full attack on MM. 4 attacks at +19(x2)/+19/+19/+14 for an average DPR of 45.38. A +1 to hit gives 4.54 more damage. +1 to damage gives 2.75 more damage.

Round 3: Full attack on BBEW 4 attacks at +18(x2)/+18/+18/+13 for an average DPR of 72.6. +1 to hit gives 4.54 more DPR. +1 damage gives 4.4 more damage.

Round 4, same as round 3.

Overall: 62.40 DPR, +1 to hit gives 4.54 more DPR. +1 damage gives 3.78 more DPR

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Arbitrary Scenario (Another way to compare classes) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.