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You know pres man, you mentioned earlier about how male players who play female characters usually have them (the character) suffering from a history of being raped, and/or selling their bodies for profit. I've seen this as well, (and a variety of other such things), and wonder why this is?
This isn't restricted to men, I have seen plenty of women also have this in the backgrounds of their characters. I won't get into why i think it is common as their is a variety of possible reasons for it.
IMO: playing one gender, whether it be male or female, "almost exclusively" is a little creepy.
With so many roleplay options available, playing a single gender "almost exclusively" is probably a sign that the player has some sort of weird subconscious hangup.
There's no reason why a player shouldn't play male and female characters evenly. To only play male characters or female characters is probably indicative that you lack creativity, are sexist or have some kind of weird obsession.
I do understand that ropeplaying romance can be very awkward, so just don't do it. Our group has a rule: no romance. Then there's no weirdness with cross-gender characters.
IMO: playing one gender, whether it be male or female, "almost exclusively" is a little creepy.
With so many roleplay options available, playing a single gender "almost exclusively" is probably a sign that the player has some sort of weird subconscious hangup.
There's no reason why a player shouldn't play male and female characters evenly. To only play male characters or female characters is probably indicative that you lack creativity, are sexist or have some kind of weird obsession.
I do understand that ropeplaying romance can be very awkward, so just don't do it. Our group has a rule: no romance. Then there's no weirdness with cross-gender characters.
Or, perhaps, the weird subconscious hangups reside with those that see them behind every corner?
Seriously - how can it possibly be weird for a male gamer to only play male characters, or a female gamer to only play female characters?
There's no reason why a player SHOULDN'T play male or female characters exclusively.
There's nothing wrong or weird about a male gamer who plays only female characters. There's nothing wrong or weird about a male gamer who plays only male characters. There's nothing wrong with a male gamer who players a mix of both.
(And just to cover all bases, there's nothing wrong or weird about a fmale gamer who plays only male characters. There's nothing wrong or weird about a female gamer who plays only female characters. There's nothing wrong with a female gamer who players a mix of both.)
A LOT of people need to hangup their junior psychology degrees. It's getting deep, and it's getting offensive.
A LOT of people need to hangup their junior psychology degrees. It's getting deep, and it's getting offensive.
Hey, I worked tremendously hard rounding out my elective classes, for that one semester I managed to buckle down, to get that Psych degree =)
But yeah, that pendulum arm is going hard in the other direction.
IMO: playing one gender, whether it be male or female, "almost exclusively" is a little creepy.
With so many roleplay options available, playing a single gender "almost exclusively" is probably a sign that the player has some sort of weird subconscious hangup.
Now, I don't think there is any reason to personally attack poor old JJ like that.
I play female PCs almost exclusively.
Some people prefer to play only wizards, some prefer only to play elves, some prefer to only play spontaneous casters, some prefer only LG characters, some prefer only CN characters, some prefer only to play only warrior types or only rogues, some prefer bards, and some people prefer to play just males or just females. I think some are taking the preference for a type of play style as something deeper than it needs to be. We are talking about a game. Let's keep that in mind.
You know pres man, you mentioned earlier about how male players who play female characters usually have them (the character) suffering from a history of being raped, and/or selling their bodies for profit. I've seen this as well, (and a variety of other such things), and wonder why this is?
I certainly understand why a background like that might be interesting from a roleplaying standpoint, so I don't begrudge people exploring such characters. I just wonder, why does this show up almost exclusively in the case of female characters? Why don't we see more of these types of backgrounds when it comes to male characters? That seems to me to be the real hang-up on people's part. With the greater awareness of how male children have been sexually abused, especially by elders who were suppose to watch over them, shouldn't we be willing to explore characters like that? Why aren't we?
I mean in a fantasy setting where magic can influence people, the thought that Mamma Graul might want a little fun with some poor male halfling isn't that hard to believe, unthinkable yes, but unbelievable no. I guess my thinking is, if you ever feel that you HAVE to play a female character because you have this great idea for someone that was sexually abused, I would ask that you at least think, could this concept be tweaked to work for a male character? If not, why not?
Creative Director
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IMO: playing one gender, whether it be male or female, "almost exclusively" is a little creepy.
With so many roleplay options available, playing a single gender "almost exclusively" is probably a sign that the player has some sort of weird subconscious hangup.
Now, I don't think there is any reason to personally attack poor old JJ like that.
No worries! I'm used to folks not understanding why some of us prefer transvirtual characters! Personally, my opinion is that gamers who get weirded out by transvirtuals have their OWN set of psychological problems and hangups.
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No worries! I'm used to folks not understanding why some of us prefer transvirtual characters! Personally, my opinion is that gamers who get weirded out by transvirtuals have their OWN set of psychological problems and hangups.IMO: playing one gender, whether it be male or female, "almost exclusively" is a little creepy.
With so many roleplay options available, playing a single gender "almost exclusively" is probably a sign that the player has some sort of weird subconscious hangup.
Now, I don't think there is any reason to personally attack poor old JJ like that.
Its just a jump to the left, and then a step to the riiiiiiiight...
...I'm just a sweet transvirtual from transvirtual transylvania!
EDIT: Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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I rarely play female characters, but heck, I rarely get to play as i mostly DM.
The one time I did, I played a bard/midwife/courier in a deep "lost" countryside campaign based on the old Dagger Rock DUNGEON modules.
It was a joke character, but not in the sex sense. In fact, my character concept was the dreaded, fearsome, GOSSIP GIRL !!!
Hey, I was a bard ... gotta eat you know ? Not much audience in the deep country, no town, few regular markets. Best way to survive, talk a lot, bring news, get invited to dinner. Also moderate healing skill to help with small hurts.
So since the group of adventurers got together, along that charismatic paladin of (?)... what excitement ! news for years to come.
So the whole game I pestered the (rather handsome and chaste) paladin with all sort of news from all the families around. Something like :
"And you remember, sasha of the Barnes farm ? i hear she has something about that young lad from the divers village, you know the one with five borthers. And did I tell you that his father is sick and he might inherit some day ? blah, blah, blah .... and they offered me CHOCOLATE cake, BLAHA BLAH BLAH, and I tell them, no sex under a full moon is unlucky BLAH, BLAh, BLAh ...."
After an hour or so, the paladin player asked me in character to please stop talking in the name of all that is good and true.
So I sulked for a while ... right until we kicked the baddy, and I found THE treasure ... Boots of Elvenkind ... perfectly matched with my leather armour .... Did I tell you how all the other girls will be jealous at the next country fair ? Lol
The campaign did not last for other RL reasons, but it was great fun, even if the character was something of a joke directed at some women of our entourage. But nobody took offense, and we all had fun.
I'd like to redo this someday given the opportunity.
As I posted in another thread:
I played in two campaigns with a guy who stated, "I feel I can only really role play women." But every woman he played was either a party-betraying mercenary or a man-hating slut, or both (that covers the three characters I saw him play). Whatever social benefits D&D has, I don't think therapy to work out your misogyny issues is one of them.
For that reason I get a little nervous when someone "insists" on playing opposite gender.
I've only ever DM'ed one player playing cross-gender, and he did that because he wanted to play a drow and the material that he had read said that female drow were somehow superior (wrt game-mechanics) to the males and he wanted to take full advantage of his race choice. I found this out after he'd been playing for a few sessions, and I pointed out that he never asked me how drow society worked in my home-brew campaign. Because I didn't have whatever sourcebook he'd read. But he played the character as an exercise in game mechanics, and didn't really RP the character very much beyond "my character would do this/my character won't do that." So he was the opposite extreme in the gender-bending debate: A cross-gender character that had absolutely NO effect on the way it was played. However, this did cause some problems because of the constant gender-pronoun corrections.
Therefore, if I'm DM'ing and a player tells me that they must play cross-gender, I want to avoid these two issues most of all. "Does it matter?" and "Are you going to embarrass yourself doing it?" are good questions to ask.
Personally, I've never played a female PC and I'm not feeling particularly restricted by it. I've never had a character concept that cried out to be made and had to be female to work. But I run females of all types all the time as a DM. Well, maybe not all. I probably missed one or two.
One of these days, I'm going to play my druid-sorcerer brother/sister character. The idea is that the main personality (I still haven't decide if that will be the male or the female and if they will be the druid or the sorcerer) will believe that their sibling was reincarnated into their familiar/animal companion after being murdered at a young age. Occasionally they will "switch places" (a la lady hawk), which will really consist of the character casting and sharing disguise self -> alterself -> polymorph with the familiar that since they are empathicly bonded believes the delusion also.
Its just a jump to the left, and then a step to the riiiiiiiight...
...I'm just a sweet transvirtual from transvirtual transylvania!
EDIT: Sorry, I couldn't resist.
LET'S DO THE TIMEWARP AGAIN!!!
No worries! I'm used to folks not understanding why some of us prefer transvirtual characters! Personally, my opinion is that gamers who get weirded out by transvirtuals have their OWN set of psychological problems and hangups.IMO: playing one gender, whether it be male or female, "almost exclusively" is a little creepy.
With so many roleplay options available, playing a single gender "almost exclusively" is probably a sign that the player has some sort of weird subconscious hangup.
Now, I don't think there is any reason to personally attack poor old JJ like that.
Oh! I hope it didn't come across like I was going after James!
I was actually thinking of a guy in my previous group who ONLY plays with male characters.
Everybody else is very adventurous when it comes to character building, but not this guy. Every one of his characters is a male dwarf, which got old after a while. He was always flirting and harassing the female NPCs.
Another friend of ours always plays with female characters. He's one of those guys who worships the female body and borders on dangerously obsessive.
So, from our personal experience, people who play with a single gender "almost exclusively" have been kinda weird about it.
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No worries! I'm used to folks not understanding why some of us prefer transvirtual characters! Personally, my opinion is that gamers who get weirded out by transvirtuals have their OWN set of psychological problems and hangups.IMO: playing one gender, whether it be male or female, "almost exclusively" is a little creepy.
With so many roleplay options available, playing a single gender "almost exclusively" is probably a sign that the player has some sort of weird subconscious hangup.
Now, I don't think there is any reason to personally attack poor old JJ like that.
Oh! I hope it didn't come across like I was going after James!
I was actually thinking of a guy in my previous group who ONLY plays with male characters.
Everybody else is very adventurous when it comes to character building, but not this guy. Every one of his characters is a male dwarf, which got old after a while. He was always flirting and harassing the female NPCs.Another friend of ours always plays with female characters. He's one of those guys who worships the female body and borders on dangerously obsessive.
So, from our personal experience, people who play with a single gender "almost exclusively" have been kinda weird about it.
Actually, that sounds less like the same gender and more like they play the same character again and again.
Actually, that sounds less like the same gender and more like they play the same character again and again.No worries! I'm used to folks not understanding why some of us prefer transvirtual characters! Personally, my opinion is that gamers who get weirded out by transvirtuals have their OWN set of psychological problems and hangups.IMO: playing one gender, whether it be male or female, "almost exclusively" is a little creepy.
With so many roleplay options available, playing a single gender "almost exclusively" is probably a sign that the player has some sort of weird subconscious hangup.
Now, I don't think there is any reason to personally attack poor old JJ like that.
Oh! I hope it didn't come across like I was going after James!
I was actually thinking of a guy in my previous group who ONLY plays with male characters.
Everybody else is very adventurous when it comes to character building, but not this guy. Every one of his characters is a male dwarf, which got old after a while. He was always flirting and harassing the female NPCs.Another friend of ours always plays with female characters. He's one of those guys who worships the female body and borders on dangerously obsessive.
So, from our personal experience, people who play with a single gender "almost exclusively" have been kinda weird about it.
Most groups have a rule, either explicit or implicit, that players will not play essentially the same character with a new name attached. Unless you are playing in a game where you need a pile of dead bards to hide behind.
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You know pres man, you mentioned earlier about how male players who play female characters usually have them (the character) suffering from a history of being raped, and/or selling their bodies for profit. I've seen this as well, (and a variety of other such things), and wonder why this is?This isn't restricted to men, I have seen plenty of women also have this in the backgrounds of their characters. I won't get into why i think it is common as their is a variety of possible reasons for it.
This is a huge pet peeve of mine, in any form of entertainment medium, women serving as vehicles to tell stories about rape and / or pregnancy, especially the unwanted / possession / evil baby sorts of pregnancy. Whether it's Ms. Marvel or Cordelia Chase or random 1/2 Orc / 1/2 Fiend / 1/2 Dragons unwitting (or unwilling) human mother, it just bugs me.
IMO, putting female characters through this sort of thing was seen as a low-hanging fruit way of stirring up the male readers, and these days, it seems that endangering children is being used that same way, as shorthand for 'this bad-guy is really bad.'
And then there is the writing of Frank Miller, where the female characters are some subset of 'whore with a heart of gold,' 'dirty whore,' 'backstabbing vixen' and 'victim.' Yikes.
Most groups have a rule, either explicit or implicit, that players will not play essentially the same character with a new name attached. Unless you are playing in a game where you need a pile of dead bards to hide behind.Actually, that sounds less like the same gender and more like they play the same character again and again.No worries! I'm used to folks not understanding why some of us prefer transvirtual characters! Personally, my opinion is that gamers who get weirded out by transvirtuals have their OWN set of psychological problems and hangups.IMO: playing one gender, whether it be male or female, "almost exclusively" is a little creepy.
With so many roleplay options available, playing a single gender "almost exclusively" is probably a sign that the player has some sort of weird subconscious hangup.
Now, I don't think there is any reason to personally attack poor old JJ like that.
Oh! I hope it didn't come across like I was going after James!
I was actually thinking of a guy in my previous group who ONLY plays with male characters.
Everybody else is very adventurous when it comes to character building, but not this guy. Every one of his characters is a male dwarf, which got old after a while. He was always flirting and harassing the female NPCs.Another friend of ours always plays with female characters. He's one of those guys who worships the female body and borders on dangerously obsessive.
So, from our personal experience, people who play with a single gender "almost exclusively" have been kinda weird about it.
Some players just like playing characters of a certain race. One of my good buddies would always play a tiefling rouge in D&D, but each of them had a different personality and alignment. He just thinks that it's cool to play a character with a demonic background, and he likes playing thieves (In a superhero game the same guy played a Spawn inspired character). I don't see how you can claim that everyone who does such and such is weird and creepy because of one guy. I could say all guys think about nothing but sex because most of the guys I know do, but that doesn't make it true or correct.
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Some players just like playing characters of a certain race.
All through 1e and 2e, I was a total elf-goob. Elf, High Elf, Grey Elf, etc. When I'd be in a 'different' mood, I'd play a 1/2 Aquatic Elf. (Except in deliberately freaky games, where the party would be like, a Wemic, a Krynnish Minotaur, a Xixchil, a Giff, an Aquatic Ogre (Merrow), a Gnomish Giant Space Werehamster and a 1/2 Ogre Mage, or whatever.)
Then the Complete Book of Dwarves came out, and it was so sexy and evocative and *cool,* with the Battleragers and such, that I had to play a dwarf, even though I had *never* felt the slightest interest in the race.
I felt an impending nerdgasm that the Complete Book of Elves could so magically rekindle the elven race. Imagine my disappointment. I actually stopped playing elves because of that book. Gah.
Someday, I wouldn't mind seeing a product that does for Halflings and / or Gnomes what the 2e Complete Dwarven Handbook did for Dwarves. Or, heck, a 3.X Dwarven or Elven book that similarly took the race to a new level of shiny awesomeness, which I haven't seen yet. The only things that really grabbed my fancy from the Races of... books was the Killoran race and the idea of having a Raptoran's flight scale up as it gained HD, to keep it from gaining an inappropiate movement option at 1st level, before the DM should be reasonably expected to prepare for such options.
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Well, genderwise, I've played both types of characters, but I think I am more attracted to playing female characters. There was one gender issue that kinda came up in a Forgotten Realms campaign I was playing once, but that campaign setting always has ways of wetting the appetite for interesting characters. My first PC for that game was a Shade wizard! Later on, when we got to a more detailed campaign in one of the kingdoms, I created a male centaur enchanter/cleric of Sune, and while I didn't exactly tell anyone, he was gay. I figured I could communicate that when and if the situation required it.
And, well.... hmm.....
But mostly I've been happy with female characters. My first Pathfinder PC is still out there: Selena Devanholme (a celestial sorceress). I personally love the word 'sorceress' better than 'sorcerer'. I'm not sure why, it just rolls off the tongue better.
The second Pathfinder PC I fell in love with was of course my diviner Zalania Sapphros.
And I think.... I think that may be why we do it. Why guys play female characters. We're creating characters that we can fall in love with. It's part of the fantasy, the imagining, the Pygmalion effect if you will. What guy wouldn't jump at the opportunity to create the perfect mate?
Thats one of the reasons why gaming can be so fun, and yet so sad: the retirement of characters we can be emotionally attached to.
But anyway, I forget who said it, but I recall this quote: "If you're going to have a fantasy, make it the best fantasy you can!" And while I'm sure it was a reference to a romantic or sexual fantasy, I think it still applies here.
And some of us, the romantic ones anyway, have some difficulty dealing with beauty in the real world. Palpitations of the heart, thickening of the tongue, the general feeling of incoherence and enchantment. As 'The Picture of Dorian Gray' reminds us, some people in this world are deadly-beautiful. It is far easier to deal with beauty in an imagined context.
For some, it may be the only escape from romantic enchantment, disenchantment, disillusion, or despair.
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Many people get stuck in a personality rut, regardless of whether or not they play characters of the opposite sex. One person I game with tends to play elven druids who have a tendency to keep as much about what they do a secret from the rest of the party for as long as possible. If they aren't playing some version of D&D, they want the following; secretive race, magical powers, and some kind of furry animal companion. Another person I played with always played hot tempered, vengeful characters, regardless of what race they were. The guy even had a vengeful pixie. Yet another was always after every ounce of loot they could get, even to the point of hoping no one saw him looting before the fight was over. And another person always plays a gruff warrior type, preferably one who tries to intimidate as the favored negotiating tactic.
I am trying to vary it up because I don't want to get stuck in a personality rut. One of my more recent characters is a fighter/war cleric with a more savage bent. I keep his words short, generally speaking, and usually limit his sentences to one to five words. (That is often very difficult.) I usually play an arcane caster.
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I apologize if this is going offtopic, but I think we need to look a bit at how fantasy films in general have altered the perception of female protaganists.
Red Sonja - raped, family killed in front of her, home burned
(Possibly the main source for male players who want to create similar characters)
Disney animated films - strong, attractive female characters, often with an unbelievably attractive male counterpart.
Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast (Beast's personality was amazingly developed in that film - still my favorite of all time), the Little Mermaid, Mulan
The few Disney films which I can recall that have a male protagonist: Peter Pan, Aladdin, Robin Hood also have interesting female counterparts who are often disapproving (but not always)-(and thus superior) of the roguish behaviors of the male protagonist.
It is possibly these animated films which have changed the perception of female characters. They are easy to identify with, in most cases.
(On a side note, that Fantasia bit about centaurs must have really messed me up when I was younger).
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Red Sonja - raped, family killed in front of her, home burned
A huge pet peeve of mine. Rape-as-empowerment stories. Yikes. Those kind of movies (Red Sonja, I Spit on Your Grave) give me the same sort of 'scared of humanity' vibe I get from Legend of the Overfiend / Urotsukidoji (wow, had to look that up, I spelled it way wrong!).
Disney animated films - strong, attractive female characters, often with an unbelievably attractive male counterpart.
Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast (Beast's personality was amazingly developed in that film - still my favorite of all time), the Little Mermaid, Mulan
The majority of youngish Disney characters (male or female) also have a father, usually kindly and indulgent, occasionally strict and absent-ish, but almost never have a mother. When they do have an adult female presence, she's a cruel stepmother, a wicked queen, an evil sorceress, a vengeful goddess or some freaky thing with tentacles named Ursula.
We've had five generations of children growing up on 'children's movies' that present no positive adult female role-models, and have the 'happy ending' for a young woman to be when she find a 'prince' to settle down with.
Other sources of fantasy literature, such as King Arthur, have big male heroes, and an evil sorceress (Morgana) and an unfaithful wife (Guinivere, even if the unfaithful thing was a retcon) as the two female characters, or the Hobbit (thirteen dudes, twelve of them indistinguishable, go on a quest, during which they discover that dwarves don't have women, apparently, and neither does anyone else), etc. I'm a big fan of Conan novels or John Carter novels or whatever, and yet all those sexy Frazetta covers are of big men protecting cowering women. There's not a lot of strong women out there in the old sources from which our game was inspired, and some of my favorite writers (Lovecraft, frex) are misogynistic at best.
Peter Jackson made a fairly bold attempt to add female prescence to Lord of the Rings by putting Arwen into Glorfindel's role, and even then, she remained Fellowship-adjacent, as did Eowyn. He was accused of having some politically-correct axe to grind or disrespecting the source material, but can you imagine if he'd cast a woman to play a main Fellowship character, say Legolas? He'd probably still be in hiding!
(On a side note, that Fantasia bit about centaurs must have really messed me up when I was younger).
[tangent]
There was a segment where dinosaurs all die that traumatized me. I was a dinosaur nut when I was five. I was that kid who could spell archaeopteryx before kindergarten (probably wrong, but still, I give myself a pass on that one).[/tangent]
We've had five generations of children growing up on 'children's movies' that present no positive adult female role-models, and have the 'happy ending' for a young woman to be when she find a 'prince' to settle down with.
One of the reasons I love "Kill Bill."
I used to mostly create male characters for a long time before I gave myself a new policy: "Would this character work better as a female instead?" Since then, I've gotten to create and play a lot of interesting female characters as well.
Amusing anecdote: While drawing up a new character, I made a half-elf rogue who was female, but androgynous. I gave her a similarly androgynous name, "Alex". upon showing another player the drawing, he responded "He's pretty cool!" Androgyny successful!
I decided I'd play her as being disguised as a man - from then on out, I used only male pronouns for her, put her free Skill Focus in Disguise, and fooled them all into thinking my character was a man for a month. (The GM was in on it. He almost let it slip a few times by referring to her as "she", but the players chalked it up to androgyny.)
Playing as Alex has been a really rewarding experience. She's probably the most well-developed of my characters (in a personality sense, certainly not in a physical sense), and it's great fun to explore her mindset (such as why she disguised herself as a man to begin with - her mother died at an early age and she was raised by her father and the remaining four members of her mom's adventuring party, all male, so she didn't have many female role models or influences in her life). Despite her boyish looks, habits, and influences, all the other players say I play her very convincingly as female (said party includes females), which I am proud of.
She even has a mild crush on another party member.
Red Sonja - raped, family killed in front of her, home burnedA huge pet peeve of mine. Rape-as-empowerment stories. Yikes. Those kind of movies (Red Sonja, I Spit on Your Grave) give me the same sort of 'scared of humanity' vibe I get from Legend of the Overfiend / Urotsukidoji (wow, had to look that up, I spelled it way wrong!).
The Red Sonja movie was awful, but the character makes sense with the setting. Conan is a dark fantasy world, and, basically, everything in Sonja's life is ruined. SShe isn't empowered by just the rape. It's the fact that her family is killed, and her life is destroyed utterly that she takes it into her own hands and becomes a woman warrior.
The problem is that such a background makes no sense in the Forgotten Realms, which is kind of a happy nothing really that bad happens setting when compared to the world of Conan.
Red Sonja is a more interesting character because she is internally conflicted. She has this urge to kind of go back to the way things were, and some of the older comics were about just that. In one of them (New Sonja) she becomes enchanted by a priest who want to use her to birth some kind of a demon. When the baby tries to kill her, her in-control nature takes over and she strangles the guy to death after ripping the baby's head off.
In short, the Conan stories are not politically correct, but I don't think Red Sonja is just a rape as empowerment story. The newer comics have literally made me throw them down in rage (Why is Sonja dressed as an asian, what am I reading) but the older ones were fairly good.
I am not a woman, so I can't be offended by Red Sonja, but despite the obviously male target audience, she's on the same level as Conan in a time and place when women are considered inferior to men. Even when Robert E. Howard was writing Conan, there was still a lot of sexism in society, and the characters that Sonja is based off of were all fairly standalone women warriors. As a matter of fact, the original Sonja costume had her dressed in full mail and long silk pants, but the male audience liked the bikini mail better, so that's what got drawn. Admittedly Sonja is at fault for bikini mail, but that by no means makes her a bad stereotypical character. She's violent, as good as Conan with a sword, and got her own kingdom, same as Conan. She may just seem like a female Conan, but she has a lot more going against her than he does due to the way the society works at the time.
The reason I'm so worked up about this is that there's a new Sonja movie due out this year, which will hopefully be closer to the comic than the last film. With Sonja being more of a badass essentially.
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It really is amazing how adaptive an intelligent mind can be. I too am told I play female characters very well. And it is a huge compliment to me.
Then again, when I was in high school theater, I was often asked to play female parts. I didn't really have a problem with it, considering the historical reference. But after awhile it did make me wonder if I performed better in a female role than a male one. :P
Or was I simply being typecast?
I have always enjoyed acting (and singing on occasion), so it seems easy enough to get into a perspective that allows a successful endeavor.
i almost exclusively play tagalong children, almost always female. almost always 12 years old or looking like it. they are always petankos. a fairly huge portion of them were Tian-Min, Rokugani Etc. my dm is tired of his creatures murdering underage girls. sometimes i'd whip out an Aasimar Flonne expy and fail. the party ends up looting the following items off my chracters at least per campaign, a wakizashi, an espada ropera, a quarterstaff, 2 or more daggers, and frequently a mithril chain shirt.
and i actually am female. i look a lot younger than i am.
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I used to mostly create male characters for a long time before I gave myself a new policy: "Would this character work better as a female instead?" Since then, I've gotten to create and play a lot of interesting female characters as well.
Amusing anecdote: While drawing up a new character, I made a half-elf rogue who was female, but androgynous. I gave her a similarly androgynous name, "Alex". upon showing another player the drawing, he responded "He's pretty cool!" Androgyny successful!
I decided I'd play her as being disguised as a man - from then on out, I used only male pronouns for her, put her free Skill Focus in Disguise, and fooled them all into thinking my character was a man for a month. (The GM was in on it. He almost let it slip a few times by referring to her as "she", but the players chalked it up to androgyny.)
Playing as Alex has been a really rewarding experience. She's probably the most well-developed of my characters (in a personality sense, certainly not in a physical sense), and it's great fun to explore her mindset (such as why she disguised herself as a man to begin with - her mother died at an early age and she was raised by her father and the remaining four members of her mom's adventuring party, all male, so she didn't have many female role models or influences in her life). Despite her boyish looks, habits, and influences, all the other players say I play her very convincingly as female (said party includes females), which I am proud of.
She even has a mild crush on another party member.
Out of curiosity, how do you handle the lack of privacy adventurers probably experience?
I mean, when you've got 4 to 6 adventurers trekking across the wilderness, bathing in the river by yourself is likely to get you killed, as is going 300 feet away from the campsite to relieve oneself. These are things that tend to be glossed over in D&D games because, well, answering the call of nature isn't particularly interesting in an RPG.
But it seems like something you are describing would theoretically be hard to pull off for very long.
I'm just curious to hear more about your game experience. It's probably a threadjack, but since the OP has wandered off never to return, I think that's fair game :)
Out of curiosity, how do you handle the lack of privacy adventurers probably experience?I mean, when you've got 4 to 6 adventurers trekking across the wilderness, bathing in the river by yourself is likely to get you killed, as is going 300 feet away from the campsite to relieve oneself. These are things that tend to be glossed over in D&D games because, well, answering the call of nature isn't particularly interesting in an RPG.
But it seems like something you are describing would theoretically be hard to pull off for very long.
I'm just curious to hear more about your game experience. It's probably a threadjack, but since the OP has wandered off never to return, I think that's fair game :)
I'm not 'Rixx, but I think every game I've ever played in any system has had a mixed party, gender-wise.
The basic answers:
1. Handwave what isn't essential to storytelling. As you say yourself, you don't need to roleplay the bathing order any more than you need to roleplay the characters peeing or brushing their teeth or whatever.
2. They're adventurers. In real life, soldiers and people who live "extreme"/difficult/rugged lifestyles learn to suck up the minimal privacy they're going to have and deal with it. Some mercenary types are going to likely have the attitude of: "Look, my dangly bits are up here, and yours are down there, and now pass the freakin' soap, already." In more delicate circumstances, it's possible to have something like -- "Okay, I'll walk with you to the river, and I'll turn my back while you take off your clothes, and just let me know when it's okay to look, so I can help keep an eye out for danger."
Those that aren't comfortable with it are going to have to learn to become comfortable with it by necessity (which is an opportunity for character growth if you do it right).
3. In the games I've played, there's usually a balance between wilderness adventuring, dungeoneering, and being in civilized areas. In the former, #2 applies--people just get along as best they can, and understand some privacy is going to be compromised. When in civilized areas, anyone who wants a private room gets one/shares with same gender/etc.
4. With higher level parties, magic and the like also helps take care of some of those problems. Heck--even lower level parties. Prestidigitation isn't as relaxing as a bath, but it keeps you clean.
2. They're adventurers. In real life, soldiers and people who live "extreme"/difficult/rugged lifestyles learn to suck up the minimal privacy they're going to have and deal with it. Some mercenary types are going to likely have the attitude of: "Look, my dangly bits are up here, and yours are down there, and now pass the freakin' soap, already." In more delicate circumstances, it's possible to have something like -- "Okay, I'll walk with you to the river, and I'll turn my back while you take off your clothes, and just let me know when it's okay to look, so I can help keep an eye out for danger."
Those that aren't comfortable with it are going to have to learn to become comfortable with it by necessity (which is an opportunity for character growth if you do it right).
I think you kind of missed his point, that being how do you keep your gender a secret in those circumstances. In fact your statement here would make that seem harder to do, because you'd seem strange acting shy about your privates.
I think you kind of missed his point, that being how do you keep your gender a secret in those circumstances. In fact your statement here would make that seem harder to do, because you'd seem strange acting shy about your privates.
*blushes profusely* Yeah, I totally misread that. I got the part in the original post about being disguised as a male for a time, and but somehow missed the point that that's what he was asking about.
I'm a moron. I would delete the post except that my ability to do so has already timed out, apparently (I really hate that "feature" of this board).
I am curious to see what 'Rizz did in that specific circumstance--but in general women who disguise themselves as men have an easier time passing themselves off as YOUNG men (to explain the lack of facial hair, etc). Usually there are ways to argue for protection of/shielding of youths and encouraging maintaining privacy for them. And if you want to play a scruffy young lad, just don't bathe. ;)
And once again, magic makes it a lot easier if you have access to that.
When it comes to cross gender roleplaying I don't really mind so long as:
1) the players take it seriously (both the one playing the character and the others interacting with the character)
2) no more then two people (at the most) are doing it (it gets confusing on the pronoun use)
3) it is not a major source of disruption for the group (other people need to be comfortable as well)
4) they aren't over doing it (male/female cross with normal race and class: fine; male/female cross with unusual race and/or class: probably to much)
5) it isn't a must for every one of their characters (if you have to play cross gender, then thats odd as it would give the impression of wish fulfillment or dissatisfaction with your gender)
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the Hobbit (thirteen dudes, twelve of them indistinguishable, go on a quest, during which they discover that dwarves don't have women, apparently, and neither does anyone else)
HA HA HA HA HA! This is brilliant! Conisder it yoinked.
Hobbit was my intro to fantasy as a young girl when my dad showed me the Rankin and Bass cartoon. I never considered the "no females" angle back then; but if I'd had, I'd have been glad there were no women, because my only other exposure to fantasy women in cartoons at the time were Disney's "Snow White" and "Cinderella," and their Saturday Morning stand-ins, and I didn't really identify with them. I was a 'tomboy' sort of girl - I played pretend "Indiana Jones" scenarios with my Barbies (that whole, "Indy, grab my hand!" scene from "Last Crusade," where Ilsa saves Indy - at least, that was how it was in my version of events!)
- it's really hilarious, because when I watched "Last Crusade" more recently, I realized she doesn't do all that much saving of anyone; it's just that scene I identified with as a child. That, and she had a level of autonomy as a secret agent - I was, what, six years old? 7? I didn't get that she was the bad guy!
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Out of curiosity, how do you handle the lack of privacy adventurers probably experience?
The bathing thing would probably be readily explained away in the times in question, as not everyone bathed anyway, and, even those who did, might have gone weeks between baths.
Urinating would be harder to deal with, although males with certain injuries or prostate issues may have to sit down to pee, and she could 'pass' as one of those, or otherwise bluff her way out of it, saying that she has to go potty when she just needs to pee.
It would be harder to maintain such a charade around another PC with Scent, if the situation lasted a month or longer, but this is a fantasy world, often assumed to have alchemical means of contraception, so perhaps she could use a potion or unguent that removes that issue from consideration as well.
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3) it is not a major source of disruption for the group (other people need to be comfortable as well)
And there's a fine line where someone is playing something deliberately 'provocative' to push the buttons of someone else at the table, or, worst of all, to 'teach them a lesson' or some nonsense like that. It's condescending and jerkish, IMO, to take it upon oneself to 'educate' others on tolerance or whatever. If I'm back in Oklahoma, gaming with a bunch of high school friends who used the word ni**er in casual conversation, I'm not going to play a black character to try and drag them screaming into the 21st century.
There are better places than in a game that is meant to be *fun for everyone* to challenge people's personal issues. Dragging it into entertainment, etc. is, IMO, passive-aggressive bull, and that sort of discussion should be had openly, not 'snuck in' by surprising them with a Denzil Washington movie marathon or something.
If you can't have an open discussion with those who find a different gender / race / whatever comfortable, it's best to avoid it altogether, rather than try to beat around the bush in some duplicitous fashion.
Or, yanno, move the hell out of that place and make new friends.
No worries! I'm used to folks not understanding why some of us prefer transvirtual characters!
I had to stop reading when I saw this to type up my own reply...
I myself am the DM 95% of the time. This month is only the 2nd time in 5 years that I've gotten the chance to actually be a player instead of running the game. (Since demographics are relevant, I'm a 33-yo hetero male.)
On these rare occasions, I play female characters almost exclusively. The reason for this is what I'd call the difference between a character and an avatar...
When I DM, immersion-building is a big part of what I do. When I have a whole cast of monsters and NPCs to represent, this doesn't pose a roleplaying problem to me because necessity dictates I change roles frequently.
However, when I've got just one character to play? When it's a male PC, my penchant for immersion ends up putting me in the game. Essentially the PC becomes an avatar of me and I sort of miss out on the actual fun of playing a different role.
Bad roleplaying? Perhaps, but I don't get to sit on the "pretty" side of the DM-screen very often.
By contrast, when it's a female character that I'm playing, it's not nearly as easy for me to fall into the same trap. I haven't lived life as a woman. I don't have the same equipment. I don't see a woman when I look in the mirror to shave. I haven't gone thru the same life experiences as a woman — I'm told there's a few small differences. ~_^
At any rate, the in-game character is sufficiently different from the out-of-game player, that I can't get lost in the same way. I can't actually be that character, so the only way to bring life to them in-game is thru roleplaying. Strange as it may seem, it's that very difference that keeps me focused. It's what helps keep it a roleplaying experience rather than me simply visualizing myself in the game.
I'm not sure if that makes me a head-case, but it's at least one answer to the questions guys like JJ and I are asked.
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Of course, to the insecure guys like my college DM (who liked to make fun of a guy playing a female character when he wasn't making futile plays for my girlfriend), the explanation I give goes a bit more like this: "Well I like women, so if I'm going to visualize a make-believe person for hours on end, I'd like to be thinking about that. So uh... why is it you only play guys again?"
He never teased me about not playing male characters again!
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And since it seems like part of our self-validations are to share our characters...
Disclaimer:
Larathiel Kirmoon:
She eventually ended up being retired into the game world's elven pantheon. Typically she only shows up as a plot device to enlist the aid of adventurers who are that-damned-renowned. On the rare occasions when she actually sees playtime, it generally consists of lower-level "flashback" or "backstory" adventures from her past (ala Highlander or Conan).
Alis Kirmoon:
As a "princess" in name only, she endeavors to make herself useful as an ambassador and a sort of trouble-shooter abroad. (She dearly looks up to her big sister, and relishes any chance to spend time together... sometimes to Larathiel's chagrin.) Alis is something of the energetic, playful, and competitive flirt when it's just the party members by themselves and she can let her guard down. Opponents who see that side of her are often duped into thinking what-they-see is what-they-get. Unfortunately for them, Alis is as cunning as she is vivacious, and she specialized in divination long before she started disguising her spells in lilting tones.
She's probably my favorite character simply because she's so dynamic and defies expectations. Folks are always underestimating her only to be pleasantly surprised that there's a respectable intelligence behind her charisma. Think of a cross between female versions of James Bond, Bruce Wayne, and The Grey Mouser — only one who doesn't sleep around like they do.
Oddly enough, her most recent adventures as a PC haven't even been in D&D. Back in 2006, it was a d20 Modern game set 20 years in our future in San Fran. Last Autumn, a 1984-edition game of Marvel Superheroes... set in a friend's homebrew D&D world! When we left off until this spring (players tour with the ren faire), Alis was beginning to develop a romance with a female player's human male paladin (well, once the pally realized she had more depth and culture to her than just a pretty face). The player's husband was cool with this, as was the DM — their teenage son. XD
BTW, Alis' name is an homage to Alis Landale from the old Phantasy Star CRPG. This was my first childhood experience seeing that a girl could be the hero instead of the damsel in distress. If any fictional heroines sparked my interest in female protagonists, then it was Alis Landale rather than Red Sonja.
Anneke:
She's a Viking shield maiden who sees her unique, unasked-for gifts as a mandate to ensure that her people's warriors die only from glorious deaths. Getting felled by a knife in the back, or a stray arrow is inglorious, so she saves the fallen with her touch so they may rise again, then inspires them so they may receive the blessings of the berserker rage.
She fights, bleeds, and drinks beside the men, but does not seek to humiliate them. Indeed, she someday hopes that upon her own death, she may be raised up as a Valkyrie to carry the honored dead to Valhalla.
At present, she is estranged from her people after her king was assassinated by his advisor. Said advisor dishonored her as a warrior by trying to force her to be the "girl" to join the late king on his funeral pyre (lest her gift reveal his treachery). Needless to say, she did *not* take the matter laying down, and is currently working on staying alive after "channeling her slain lord's spirit" and unleashing bloody hell — sucks to be the only one with the gift of prophecy sometimes…
Out of curiosity, how do you handle the lack of privacy adventurers probably experience?
Regarding keeping her gender a secret: We spent most of our time near civilized areas, so she could usually easily get some privacy. When they weren't she'd simply be sneaky about it - she'd sleep in her clothes, wouldn't participate in communal bathing (which never came up much), and only change clothes when she was the only one awake on watch (or when she was expected to be asleep). It was easy for her to change clothes without revealing herself - she could do it quickly with her back turned, since she wore a cloak that obscured most of her body most of the time (and she's had practice changing quickly). The rest of the party accepted her as being secretive, and being respectful of her secrets was one of the key conditions under which she worked, so people didn't ask many questions.
They assumed she was under some kind of curse, or was part demon or something, rather than just being female - since she always covered her skin and recoiled from all touch, they thought she had some kind of horrifying skin condition.
(She only recoiled from touch because she developed a touch-phobia after working as a barmaid in a rowdy adventurer's tavern in her youth.)
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So we've heard from a lot of folks about their experience playing characters of an opposite gender.
What about hermaphroditic characters?
Serious question. It might come up for me if my friends rib me one more time about getting the "hermaphroditic" tiefling trait during my first roll for my Council of Thieves(Or Kingmaker, dunno yet) character.
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Hm...my thinking now is that my tiefling would probably just think of himself as a guy, and mistakenly believe all dudes had plumbing like he does.
All in all, it's less intrusive than the other traits I ditched.
Hermaphroditism can be a useful trait for a character who makes frequent use of the disguise skill.
Pick up the Gary Jennings novel, Raptor for a crunchy bit of historical fiction to use as a reference.
I've recently encountered a situation where I almost made a female character, but chose not to. We have a new player playing with us on occasion, and he's new to DnD/table top gaming in general. He's honestly a little old-fashioned, and not used to the idea of actual role-playing yet. One of our players is male, and playing a female elf archer. The new player seemed to be having a bit of trouble getting used to that, so the concept I had for a new character has gone on the shelf, for the sake of party cohesion. I've got about 10 other ideas, so I'm not that heartbroken about it. I'd rather wait for a more suitable game to use this concept than shoehorn it into a game where it might make someone else uncomfortable.
I realize that gender role and such are things to be discussed, but when it's a casual game for fun, sometimes you gotta do what might be best for the group. In a more involved, story based game, I'd go ahead and make "her", but this is a dungeon crawl campaign just for kicks and battles. I'm sure I could argue the merits of the female character I had, but if it's going to possibly give someone a bad intro to gaming in general, I'd rather go with what works best for the group. I'll save the more "interesting" role play bits for a group that's comfortable with that sort of thing.
Has anyone else encountered this situation?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I realize that gender role and such are things to be discussed, but when it's a casual game for fun, sometimes you gotta do what might be best for the group. In a more involved, story based game, I'd go ahead and make "her", but this is a dungeon crawl campaign just for kicks and battles. I'm sure I could argue the merits of the female character I had, but if it's going to possibly give someone a bad intro to gaming in general, I'd rather go with what works best for the group. I'll save the more "interesting" role play bits for a group that's comfortable with that sort of thing.
Has anyone else encountered this situation?
Story:
Well the newer players kept forgetting that our female player was playing a guy (in their defense, they'd known her outside gaming for a while and she does have two rather ample reasons to cause confusion) and they thought my character flirting with the maid was just fine. It was when someone came in to the room where the maid and my character were having an afterwards cuddle and talk; I (thinking it was the brother) went, 'Yes! A twofer!"
Both of the guys backed away from the table in shock. I toned it down then, realzing that they may have played RPGs, but not with characters like I normally threw at the table.
Story 2:
For the most part cross-gender playing has been fairly rare- our DM discouraged it when we first formed because, while we knew each-other otherwise, we didn't know each other's playing style, and he didn't want the classic sexist male play female character. We've since decided that as a group we were mature enough to handle it. Still, no one tried.
Until, of course, we got a new player- who has played several. None of them were offensive, though I do admit we were a little surprised at first (only one of us knew him from before). But, in the end it wasn't a big deal.
Truth be told, most of us play characters that fall in the "wish fulfillment" category, and, being happy with the gender we were given, probably won't be playing different genders soon.