I link this idea a lot, kudos! So ore based coinage materials become rarer. What about spells like the major creation, are they changed as well then? Is platinum like mithral?
Don’t you get tired of players with thousands upon thousands of gold pieces? Or D&D economies that completely overvalue items?
Well, so do I. Here is my overly complicated solution:
Step1: All currency step exchanges (i.e. silver to gold) are 100 to 1, not 10 to 1.
Step 2: 100 coins of any value equal 1 pound.
Step 3: All GP values listed are actually SP. Any value in CP is now x10 CP.
Step 4: Exceptions are made for trade goods (pound of gold is calculated based on new system) and sailing ships (list in GP at 1/10 list value).
Results –
A pound of platinum is literally worth a Kings ransom (10,000gp)
A Kings ransom actually has some meaning 10K gp = 1M gp in old system
Common items are more expensive, but comparative value between item that used to cost 1sp and 1cp has been preserved
Alternatively, you could say expensive items are now worth significantly less
No more buying fleets of vessels (1K gp for a Caravel = 100K gp in old system)
I couldn't agree more with your initial opinion and the premise for your changes. However, I can't do it. Gold has ALWAYS been about 20 to 1 value over silver (well, from the early middle ages until 1990 or so), and some of the cost ratios in the equipment lists don't quite bear up to scrutiny, especially with your adjustments.
Mind you, your changes are relatively simple (not "overly complicated" as you suggest), and that has its own merits. I also do appreciate the magnitude of change your system would create; the economy would feel a lot different (which is good). But I have my own approach which I hope you can appreciate.
I posted this months ago, I will repost here for comparison:
"Change prices in the PH (PCR) to silver. For most mundane items, just convert at the established ratio of gold/silver (1/10). So, a longsword is 150sp. The major exception is armor, being hideously overpriced compared to weapons, I instead change these prices directly to silver. However changing the armor prices to silver (chainmail becomes 150sp instead of gold) doesn't quite give armor the respect it needs against weapons. I therefore, tripled armor prices, then changed them to silver (chainmail becomes 450sp).
Now, there are a few big ticket items in mundanity that require judgment calls. Ships in particular, and in the DMG, fortifications. I change these to silver rather than convert at the exchange rate (i.e. simple house = 1000sp, huge castle = 1000000sp). Also, a heavy warhorse should probably cost about 800 to 1600 silvers in this model, but in the typically prosperous and horse friendly D&D setting, it works to set it at 400 to 800 silver.
Now, the big question is: what about magic? In my model, I simply changed the magic prices to silver (+1 enhancement for a weapon becomes 2000sp). However, I think I like a little less magic, so I think in the future I will double magic prices and change to silver (+1 enhancement for a weapon becomes 4000sp).
Now all that's left is to divide the treasure values by ten, and you're good to go."
I realize that part of your goal is to remove the vast purchasing power of the PCs along with the MOUNTAINS of gold coins. My goal is simply more "realism", hence increasing the costs of small mundane gear (like common weapons), while maintaining the relative costs of big ticket items (like castles). (As a side note; I don't use the standard masterwork costs, as they would be paltry or crippling depending on which way you go). My group has never had the problem of "fleets of vessels", so my drives are different.
Anyway, something to consider.
Cheers.
I couldn't agree more with your initial opinion and the premise for your changes. However, I can't do it. Gold has ALWAYS been about 20 to 1 value over silver (well, from the early middle ages until 1990 or so), and some of the cost ratios in the equipment lists don't quite bear up to scrutiny, especially with your adjustments.Mind you, your changes are relatively simple (not "overly complicated" as you suggest), and that has its own merits. I also do appreciate the magnitude of change your system would create; the economy would feel a lot different (which is good). But I have my own approach which I hope you can appreciate.
I posted this months ago, I will repost here for comparison:
*snip*
Thanks for your version. I can certainly appreciate how it runs overall. And, yeah, it may not be "overly complex", but most of my ideas become so over time^__^
I DID forget another result of my system: many crafting times are now reduced. Instead of gold, the items cost silver, but I did NOT change silver into copper, so crafting items is still doing it in SP.
It occurred to me a few minutes ago that you could build your model and make it "realistic" at the same time.
You retain the more historical gold/silver ratio (20/1) but change the standard coinage itself. The most commonly used silver coin in several economic ages was the denar, or silver penny, weighing about 250 to a pound (240 actually, but it doesn't matter for our purposes). Now, gold coins were minted rarely, if at all, and were usually a much larger coin. So, you make your standard "silver piece" a penny (250/lb.), and your standard "gold piece" straight out of the PH Equipment chapter (50/lb.). With a value ratio of 20/1 gold/silver, that comes out to 1gp=100sp. I love it. Of course this also allows you to introduce other denominations of various coins to spice up the treasure (for those interested).
I am not crusading to change your views; as I said, I appreciate the simplicity of your version. I also know all to well how a great idea for verisimilitude can fall flat with players; I just can't help but brainstorm and try to...."help".
Btw, a value ratio of 100/1 platinum to gold is eminently supportable as "realistic", as I have only recently learned that platinum was not smelted until the late 19th and early 20th centuries!!! So, in a typical D&D world, I would think that only Dwarves and perhaps Elves would smelt platinum. It would indeed be valued like mithral (although...Dwarves and Elves would not value it so highly, but now it's getting complicated).
Anyway, good luck with your economics. I'm still dreaming of actually launching and sustaining the "ultimate" fantasy campaign where I get to make all the changes my heart desires.
Thanks for the 20/1 justification. I am probably going to go with heavier silver (100sp/lb), but proabably less pure, or coating another metal that would create problems for counterfiters (like lead, which would melt faster than silver and contaminate a melted batch). But this is only for simplicity sake.
And it WAS my intention to introduce different demoninations (at least a 10 piece), as well as the oft-forgotten Electrum Piece (or 50-silver piece).
And platinum, yes, should not only be extremly rare, but I think a product of more advanced kingdomes of old or dwarven/elven smiths. It becomes a placeholder for enormous purchases, like the US $10,000 bill.
Yeah, platinum now becomes a much more approachable "astral essence" or whatever the hell they called the "special" epic money.
And, just a note of minutia about the coinage denominations: If you study the old 1e AD&D money and prices with an eye toward history, it is evident that the silver piece in that game (20sp=1gp) is equivalent to the English Schilling.
These were not actually coins during much of the middle ages, but then that wasn't the Forgotten Realms (or whatever) was it? They represented 12d (pence), and were therefore 20 to a Pound Sterling. Thus the 1e "gp" is akin to a gold coin worth a Pound Sterling.
The ensuing problem is that D&D trivialized that coin into pocket change for just about anyone with any money. Whereas the English Pound was (until the late 19th century) more akin to a US $100 bill. And if you lived in the "cashless" segment of the economy, it was "valued" even higher. More like the value of platinum you mentioned.....
.....sorry, I ramble a bit when I start connecting dots....
while simple, the 100 coins per pound...is too simplistic for me.
1 lb = 16 oz
1 oz of silver is the about size of a Silver Dollar.
"2 bits, 4 bits, 6 bits a dollar." this is because in the old days, a silver dollar would be cut into 8 pieces..."a bit"
Copper coins would be minted in 1/4, 1/2 and full cent values.
I do like the conversion values...
100cp=1sp (100 cents = $1)
100sp=1gp ($100 = 1 C-note)
100gp=1pp ($10,000= a new car!)
10000cp=1gp
10000sp=1pp
1000000cp=1pp
Now that dragon can literally lay in a bed of money and not actually have the characters go on massive spending sprees. (it's just almost all copper)
while simple, the 100 coins per pound...is too simplistic for me.
1 lb = 16 oz
1 oz of silver is the about size of a Silver Dollar.
"2 bits, 4 bits, 6 bits a dollar." this is because in the old days, a silver dollar would be cut into 8 pieces..."a bit"
Copper coins would be minted in 1/4, 1/2 and full cent values.
I do like the conversion values...
100cp=1sp (100 cents = $1)
100sp=1gp ($100 = 1 C-note)
100gp=1pp ($10,000= a new car!)10000cp=1gp
10000sp=1pp1000000cp=1pp
Now that dragon can literally lay in a bed of money and not actually have the characters go on massive spending sprees. (it's just almost all copper)
While the bit (sorry) about the silver dollar is essentially correct (the oz. of a silver dollar is a Troy ounce, 12 to a lb., so even more metal), the silver dollar itself comes from a totally different economic model. Money was already beginning to devalue in the America of the 19th century, metal was more plentiful and coins were big like Texas.
The more medieval economies had "silver pieces", as aforementioned, that weighed one 20th of a Troy ounce, or one dram (240 to a lb.). These were cut into 1/2s and 1/4s, or half-pennies and farthings. Very similar to the bits of your example, but leagues apart in metal quantity and weights.
Your model is perfectly viable of course, and forms the assumptive basis of the "D&D economy" of the 2nd and 3rd editions, and the justification of the faults in 1st. It models the economy on metal rich fantasy economics with adventurers akin to gold miners in the Old West who paid $1 for an egg....and $1 was worth a whole lot more than...a dollar.
I must point out that the "default" d20 weight of coins is 50 to a lb.
MM and I are, I think, looking at more "medieval" values that's all.
I just hand them less cash.
Seems to fix the problem.
I just give my player's 1/10th what the books/modules give. It makes them struggle and sweat a bit more. I like it, and I think they like it, too.
I'll just leave it as is, it's fantasy after all, maybe those metals are all just a bit more common, which is why everyone has got so much of it.
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So, you make your standard "silver piece" a penny (250/lb.), and your standard "gold piece" straight out of the PH Equipment chapter (50/lb.). With a value ratio of 20/1 gold/silver, that comes out to 1gp=100sp. I love it. Of course this also allows you to introduce other denominations of various coins to spice up the treasure (for those interested).
I have two types of 'gold piece,' a 'golden penny' that is the weight of the ones in the PHB, and one that is 10x as heavy and valuable, that is called the 'gold sovereign' or even 'gold doubloon' (yeah, using doubloon wrong, but I'm okay with that, so long as the big coins look like the big coins shown in pirate movies).
Platinum doesn't exist as an exchange metal (at least among standard races), and is replaced with mithral pennies. Above mithral pennies, also at a 10 to 1 conversion, are adamantine bits. Above them are means of exchange never seen by lower classes, such as magically enspelled orichalum coins that are traded by organized societies of wizards, who redeem them for spell services.
Elves and halflings prefer silver and mithral coins. Humans use copper, silver, gold pennies and gold sovereigns. Dwarves use whatever is traded locally, but prefer to use alloyed metals such as steel, brass, bronze, electrum, etc. as they use very specific ratios that made forgery difficult for those who do not know the formula used and approved by the dwarven counting-houses. The gnomish system of coin is incomprehensible, and subject to change without any apparent rhyme or reason (to non-Gnomes, although they seem to spread word of changes in market value amongst their own merchants with great efficiency) and involves metals tiered in an alchemical ranking system, including copper, silver and gold, but also small flasks of mercury that represent 25 gp.
Platinum does exist, but only dwarves and dark elves use it as a medium of exchange, and surface races are generally unaware of its value.
All just to add a little color to the monetary system. I haven't even tried to delve into how the values would need to be changed to 'make sense' from a world economy point-of-view, as, thankfully, none of my players care about such things. :)