My solution: errata Spring Attack and Charges to say something like "you may move up to (twice) your speed and take a standard action to make a single melee attack..." and specifying which feats are standard actions and which ones replace attacks.
Standard Actions: down a potion, cast a spell, Cleave, grapple, overrun*, bull rush*
Replaces Attack: Vital Strike, disarm, sunder, trip
* may be used on a charge
Can Vital Strike be combined with Spring Attack? Trying to build a fighter for the next game and want to use this combo if legal.
Yes, it is legal. Spring Attack is compatable with attack actions, and Vital Strike is specifically an attack action. This is Developer-confirmed.
Cleave is a standard action, and therefore not compatable with Spring Attack.
I don't know why this is hard to get but it's actually quite simple.
Melee attack is an attack action as defined under Standard Actions Attack. Spring attack works on melee attack. Vital strike works on any attack action. Since Melee attack is listed as a attack action you can use vital strike with spring attack.
Also further down that list of attack actions is multiple attacks. So you can use vital strike on full attack action too even though it's not standard action. The Vital strike feat specifies that only the first attack has the damage dice double. Additional attacks don't.
Now can you vital strike with a cleave? This one I'm not sure on. The Cleave feat says as standard action you get to make single attack and if it hits you can make second attack on adjacent foe at you full BAB. By saying you can get single attack does that mean it's an attack action. If so then Cleave applies if not then cleave doesn't apply. I'm not sure on this one. So by making a single attack it doesn't specify what attack. So I can only assume it means one of attack action. But if that is the case then ranged attack is an attack action. I have problem seeing an archer cleaving with a bow. But if you take out the idea of cleaving and think of it like a an arrow going through one foe and into the next that works. But then what about sling bullet, same thing strikes one foe glancing off to hit another. Well once I start going do this road I have to say Cleave isn't any attack action. It's it own thing and vital strike doesn't apply.
I don't know why this is hard to get but it's actually quite simple.
Melee attack is an attack action as defined under Standard Actions Attack. Spring attack works on melee attack. Vital strike works on any attack action. Since Melee attack is listed as a attack action you can use vital strike with spring attack.
Also further down that list of attack actions is multiple attacks. So you can use vital strike on full attack action too even though it's not standard action. The Vital strike feat specifies that only the first attack has the damage dice double. Additional attacks don't.
Now can you vital strike with a cleave? This one I'm not sure on. The Cleave feat says as standard action you get to make single attack and if it hits you can make second attack on adjacent foe at you full BAB. By saying you can get single attack does that mean it's an attack action. If so then Cleave applies if not then cleave doesn't apply. I'm not sure on this one. So by making a single attack it doesn't specify what attack. So I can only assume it means one of attack action. But if that is the case then ranged attack is an attack action. I have problem seeing an archer cleaving with a bow. But if you take out the idea of cleaving and think of it like a an arrow going through one foe and into the next that works. But then what about sling bullet, same thing strikes one foe glancing off to hit another. Well once I start going do this road I have to say Cleave isn't any attack action. It's it own thing and vital strike doesn't apply.
[threadjack]
This conversation leads me to the funny thought of spring attacking vital striking fighter monks.. which leads me to the funnier thought of flyby attack from a huge draconic monk dragon disciple vital striking.... [/threadjack]
Also further down that list of attack actions is multiple attacks. So you can use vital strike on full attack action too even though it's not standard action. The Vital strike feat specifies that only the first attack has the damage dice double. Additional attacks don't.
Actually, I think it is intended that it be 'either/or'. A standard action cannot be combined with a full round action, you do one or the other. Hence you can Vital Strike or you can full attack, but not both. However, you can also move if you Vital Strike or Cleave.
Now can you vital strike with a cleave?
Again, both are standard actions, so you would need to be able to do two standard actions in a round to do both. You cannot combine them.
Can Vital Strike be combined with Spring Attack? Trying to build a fighter for the next game and want to use this combo if legal.
Sorry, don't have time to read entire thread so if someone already said this...oh well.
The way it was explained way back when 3.0 came out was that, unless specifically called out as incompatible, most feats that modified movement or attacks were assumed to work together and be cumulative. Only after ongoing debates about Whirlwind/Cleave insanity did they "unofficial errata" that you couldn't combine Whirlwind with other feats that modify or grant extra attacks. Then they made it official in 3.5. And so it says, to this day, in Pathfinder RPG.
I don't know why this is hard to get but it's actually quite simple...
Ah, if only it were. Your post (which is incorrect) is proof that it is not.
|
However, down the page is a counterpost pointing out that it doesn't jive with James' earlier posts, and published tactics in PF #30, print page 42. This is exactly what happened with the Improved Natural Attack feat.
The best option is to decide among your group on what the group feels is a fair use of the feats. That is all that truly matters.
|
However, down the page is a counterpost pointing out that it doesn't jive with James' earlier posts, and published tactics in PF #30, print page 42. This is exactly what happened with the Improved Natural Attack feat.
The best option is to decide among your group on what the group feels is a fair use of the feats. That is all that truly matters.
Agreed. Its always best to figure it out in your own group. Official rulings are basically just for organized play anyway, we're all smart enough to figure out what we want. :)
However, down the page is a counterpost pointing out that it doesn't jive with James' earlier posts, and published tactics in PF #30, print page 42. This is exactly what happened with the Improved Natural Attack feat.
The best option is to decide among your group on what the group feels is a fair use of the feats. That is all that truly matters.
We all have to realize that James is not having a round-robin discussion with Jason and the rest of the design team, he is making a ruling himself, essentially taking the role of GM to the masses. But just like working with your own GM, he can be swayed.....and change his mind.
Hahahahaha
Yay!!
