Let's resume discussing people's death-level policies, without calling anyone WRONG. If it works for your group, tell us what you do and why.
We just start at the same level we died at and sell off our old character's gear and buy gear with that money. Of course we only run pre-written adventures and don't use XP so it kind of goes hand in hand with the "Dump XP" thread.
Let's resume discussing people's death-level policies, without calling anyone WRONG. If it works for your group, tell us what you do and why.
I tried!
At a table of 4 players, there is no way whatsoever that a 5th PC must have only skills that the other 4 PCs have. Profession and crafting are both open-ended skills. That's not even factoring in the other skills.
I assume the 5th PC stays in town crafting for the weeks and months it takes to do crafting while the other PCs go adventuring and take pre-made items off dead enemies.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Explain to me how developing a reputation as cold blooded killers is tactically sound. Even if you are the fastest gun in town, that just means you get a bunch of people chasing you who want to make a name for themselves.The -only- way your option works is if the game is nothing but hack and slash and, if that's the case, then have fun. Not everyone plays that way.Again with the absolute statements on style-of-play issues.
Why's it gotta be like this?
Yeah, but you said upthread that the only right way to play the game is to have everyone start new characters at 1st level.
Yeah, but you said upthread that the only right way to play the game is to have everyone start new characters at 1st level.Explain to me how developing a reputation as cold blooded killers is tactically sound. Even if you are the fastest gun in town, that just means you get a bunch of people chasing you who want to make a name for themselves.The -only- way your option works is if the game is nothing but hack and slash and, if that's the case, then have fun. Not everyone plays that way.Again with the absolute statements on style-of-play issues.
Why's it gotta be like this?
SEBASTIAN. You should know better. ;)
My sorceress mind hacks people all the time, though she makes heavy use of still spell and silent spell to keep it from being obvious. Most of the time, the only thing the victim is even aware of is that they felt a mental twinge (which many contribute to the beginnings of a headache) and that they really like the sorceress.
My sorceress also has high modifiers in Bluff and Diplomacy. She rarely mistreats her mind hacked tools and many of them remain personable long after the initial spell effect has ended (because by the time the spell ends, she has used mundane means to win them over--which is made easier by said spell).
In this way she has slowly built an army of useful tools all across the campaign world that can generally be called upon if needed.
Why do I do it this way? Because I asked my GM if the victim would remember being charmed should they witness me casting the spell. She said yes, so I found a way to deal with it. So far, it's been a whole lot of fun.
Other GMs make it so mind hacked targets don't remember being mind hacked--which is a perfectly fine way to play it (especially since the rules as written don't clarify it either way).
Nevermind the fact that Charm Person doesn't say anything about changing a person's attitude to worse than what it was after it wears off.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Yeah, but you said upthread that the only right way to play the game is to have everyone start new characters at 1st level.No, I didn't. And you all know I didn't.
As far as I can tell, you are all upset that I play the game differently than you do.
I'm not upset that you play differently. I'm upset that you keep calling everyone a munchkin and refuse to explain how your system works.
Okay, "upset" isn't the right word. Maybe "amused by the fact that". Yeah, I think that works...
You are using an example of a high-Cha class.
If it were a Wizard, who likely has a much lower Cha, the target, assuming he's a Wisdom higher than a loaf of bread, is going to wonder why the bookworm was so rock star cool for about a day.
Sure they might wonder about it for a few seconds. Seriously though, how often do you wonder about "why you like someone?" Even when you do dwell on such things, how much time do you really spend doing it?
Most people simply acknowledge that they do or don't like someone and leave it at that.
That is a far cry from "I was mentally raped! Death to the wizard!"
Charm person is cool because it makes the person your friend. Since they are your friend, your ability to put your crappy Charisma skills and abilities to use is much improved. If nothing else the DCs for most Bluff/Diplomacy checks will be reduced.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Yeah, but you said upthread that the only right way to play the game is to have everyone start new characters at 1st level.No, I didn't. And you all know I didn't.
As far as I can tell, you are all upset that I play the game differently than you do.
I'm not upset that you play differently. I'm upset that you keep calling everyone a munchkin and refuse to explain how your system works.
Okay, "upset" isn't the right word. Maybe "amused by the fact that". Yeah, I think that works...
I've explained how my system works multiple times.
As for being called a munchkin, if you like playing a munchkin game, it shouldn't offend you to have that pointed out. I'm not passing judgement on anyone for being a munchkin.
Yeah, but you keep saying that everyone who doesn't play the way you do is a munchkin, then get bent out of shape about people getting upset that you play differently. Plus, as you previously admitted, you don't even use dice when you play D&D, so it's pretty hard to take your critique seriously.
As for being called a munchkin, if you like playing a munchkin game, it shouldn't offend you to have that pointed out. I'm not passing judgement on anyone for being a munchkin.
This one is just too easy. I will leave it alone, since it is likely Joshua would come for me.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I would absolutely love for the forum to go on to discus how other people play. For some reason, you all want to focus on how I play. I don't know what's so fascinating to you all that you don't read my posts, but do comment on them.
Then maybe it's time you were quiet for a while.
Maybe you should write a scrip that automatically adds a reminder to people to read your previous posts at the end of each new post. That would help. A different poster had that idea in another thread, and I thought it was pretty clever...
Director of Brand Strategy
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That's no different than calling an apple "red" or calling a guy "white".
If the guy's ablino, maybe. But be careful with racial truisms. As with any other social construct, race can be interpreted differently by different people.
And I have totally seen non-red apples. I just ate one this morning.
Maybe you should write a scrip that automatically adds a reminder to people to read your previous posts at the end of each new post. That would help. A different poster had that idea in another thread, and I thought it was pretty clever...
Wait...
Do you mean we have to actually READ someone's post before responding in a snarky way ? o.O
Yes, I keep calling people's playing style "munchkin". That's no different than calling an apple "red" or calling a guy "white".
Actually, yes, it is. You might want to stop slinging that term around until you find out what it really means and its implications.
In a world where people know that enchantments exist, such a thing should raise a few red flags (assuming the victim has a higher Wisdom than what a loaf of bread has).
If I am in a world where I know enchantments exist and I realize that, for some reason, yesterday I thought that nebbish in the robes was rock star cool enough for me to do something I wouldn't have done and which, now (when I no longer think he's rock star cool) I wouldn't do if I had to do it over again, I would -definitely- suspect enchantment.
Perhaps you're right. After all, people believed such "bewitchings" in ages past despite the fact that witches and warlocks never existed. In a world where it is acknowledged that such enchanters DO exist I imagine the accusations of bewitchery would be even more common.
In a world where it is acknowledged that such enchanters DO exist I imagine the accusations of bewitchery would be even more common.
That is a scary thought.
I've explained how my system works multiple times.
Wrong. You've said WHAT HAPPENS, you have never explained the RULES.
Do you actually use dice in your game? I can only imagine "no" if a level 1 character can contribute to a level 10 party.|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I've explained how my system works multiple times.Wrong. You've said WHAT HAPPENS, you have never explained the RULES.
Do you actually use dice in your game? I can only imagine "no" if a level 1 character can contribute to a level 10 party.
You should try rereading his posts. Personally, I print them out and diagram them. It's the only way to really uncover all the nuance and subtlety.
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You utterly fail to directly debate any issue. In fact, you seem to have no debating skills what so ever, as everything you say is off target or tangential to the initial comments. You seem to either fail to understand what people are saying, or more likely simply ignore them because you have no valid reply. Your own arguments are incoherent, inconsistent, contradictory and self-defeating, as I've already shown.
Considering the paladin thread, this made me smile.
I don't know why everyone else stays with this. I agree with Lincoln, the best thing to do is just ignore Thrall and and eventually he'll go away.
Ever watched a trainwreck? It's so hard to look away.
I know what the word means, thank you.
Did you bother to read the rest of the Wikipedia entry? Specifically, "The term is used almost exclusively as a pejorative and frequently is used in reference to powergamers and to immature players in general."
Perhaps you do not fully understand the term pejorative
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I know what the word means, thank you.Did you bother to read the rest of the Wikipedia entry?
I think the better question is whether Wikipedia bothered to read LilithsThrall's posts. It's not his reading comprehension that is at issue - it's the reading comprehension of the rest of the internet (particularly the posters here on Paizo).
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I think the better question is whether Wikipedia bothered to read LilithsThrall's post. It's not his reading comprehension that is at issue - it's the reading comprehension of the rest of the internet (particularly the posters here on Paizo).I know what the word means, thank you.Did you bother to read the rest of the Wikipedia entry?
The internet can't comprehend anything, it's just a series of tubes! :P
Edit: I vote 'competitive' by the by.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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The internet can't comprehend anything, it's just a series of tubes! :PI think the better question is whether Wikipedia bothered to read LilithsThrall's post. It's not his reading comprehension that is at issue - it's the reading comprehension of the rest of the internet (particularly the posters here on Paizo).I know what the word means, thank you.Did you bother to read the rest of the Wikipedia entry?
Tell that to John and Sarah Connor...
Edit: I vote 'competitive' by the by.
I like gamist, but I think there is some negativity associated with it as well.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I have a personal request, folks.
There are some people here who are getting hot-and-bothered by the thread. There are other people wholike walking up to people who have big red buttons on their chests saying, "Don't Press" and seeing what will happen if they do. These are the Paizo messageboards, and they can take both of those types of posters.
But there's some meat to this issue, and I'd hate for it to be lost amid a vanishingly small signal-to-noise ratio. Those who are interested in back-and-forth banter, please pull up a nice off-topic thread and go at it.
--+--+--
Lilith's Thrall, if you would be so kind as to scroll up to my previous post, you'll see a description of what it's like, to play a very low-level character in a high-level party. The other players were friendly, non-competitive, and did their best, in the strictures of the OP environment, to help me out. But it really wasn't any fun.
What advice would you have, in that context?
--+--+--
Question: should it matter how many PCs are killed? There was one poster up-thread (and I apologize for being unable to reference it better) who said that he'd bring in replacement characters just a little lower than APL, unless there was a TPK, in which case "of course" the campaign would restart at 1st Level.
I assume, O poster, that you aren't running a pre-written Adventure Path. If the party is wiped out by the <redacted> that guards the entrance to the Runeforge, I can't imagine that a perky band of novices will fare much better.
What if the whole party is killed except one PC? Does that one character end up two levels higher than everybody else? Does he get everybody's (recoverable) loot?
--+--+--
I've played in one campaign where we were asked to stat up "replacement characters," which we'd play every so often. They were something like the Junior Varsity team working for the organization that employed the party. That way, if a "primary" character died hideously, the back-up could be raised in level and join the party, as an acquaintance. ("Daniel's dead? Welcome to the team, Jonas.")
Has anyone else had any experience with that?
--+--+--
Leaving aside the visceral reaction that people had to the other players choosing what kind of character to admit into the team, what are your thoughts on leaving the incoming character's level up to the other party members? They can donate experience points to bring the new guy up to their level, or leave him at APL - 2.
Please for the love of Gygax let this thread go back to subject!
As much as I love "As The Thrall Turns", it's a little old now... and by a little I mean a lot.
For my next game when a PC dies, I will laugh maniacally and dance a jig, then I will make them repeat the mantra of the DM always wins(because it's me vs them you see)... then they must bring me a shrubbery, and spin widdershins thrice.
After this I will hand them a clean char sheet tell them to build it X lvl (Most likely APL-1) and will let them get to work building while the game continues.
I've recently joined an ongoing campaign with characters 16-18 th level. In pure roleplay sessions, my 13 th level character (per GM's choice) easily holds its own as a suport character, either passing on my ideas for the more skilled characters to act on or using one of my skills when it fits my background, but in combat I'm most definetly support only. Any of the real opponents we meet can wipe the floor with me. Mooks and lesser leutenants are all I can handle. I'm having a great time, but I probably won't ever quite catch up.
Since the various rebirth spells create a gap of 1 - 2 levels, that is what I reccomend for replacement characters.
Question: should it matter how many PCs are killed? There was one poster up-thread (and I apologize for being unable to reference it better) who said that he'd bring in replacement characters just a little lower than APL, unless there was a TPK, in which case "of course" the campaign would restart at 1st Level.
I assume, O poster, that you aren't running a pre-written Adventure Path. If the party is wiped out by the <redacted> that guards the entrance to the Runeforge, I can't imagine that a perky band of novices will fare much better.
What if the whole party is killed except one PC? Does that one character end up two levels higher than everybody else? Does he get everybody's (recoverable) loot?
For me it depends on the game.
TPKs = Scrubbed game. I make note in the module/adventure where the PC's died and their EQ and distribute it amongst the mobs. Gold going to the main hoard etc. That module is shelved and a new one, with level 1 chars starting the new path. When I go back to that module in the future the encounters are refreshed, though in cases of natural monsters (i.e Gelatonous cube the cult wouldn't tangle with) that room is filled with CR equivalent of that previous encounter, but more towards the normal guards of the dungeon. A lot of work for me, but tons of fun for the players. Should see their faces when I describe their old weapons and armor... The Hobgoblin looks oddly well armored in a dwarven Breastplate bearing the Signet of the Thunderfury clan... The player (noe playing a human rogue) dropped his soda.
More then one death - If the PCs are looters then they're stacked, but will have to carry their lower level friends with all that new gear. If they're just holding the loot to just hand over to the new chars without good RP behind it(Metagaming)... well let's just say one char is easier to rob in the night then a group.
But for some reason when I have one survivor it always seems to be a paly or other LG char that will bring the EQ to the families / bury them with it.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Button-pushers like you make me sick!
But...uh...where'd you find that button anyway? I'm just asking. I don't have any intention of pushing it...
For Chris
Alrightly, I'll dial it back to silly. I'd be curious as to the answers to the questions you raised as well, I'm just not sure they can be delivered without a side order of "you're a power-gamer who's not interested in roleplaying and the One True Way of D&D." But, hey, maybe there's someone who both uses the system and can explain how it works without attacking everyone else. Stranger things have happened in this world...
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I let my players have a choice of new characters when their character dies. They all come back at the same level as the rest of the party.
1)They design their new character. This is the typical choice, but this often takes them the rest of a session. They won't get a chance to come in until either late or not until the next session.
2)The character and class rolled randomly. Feats and skills still determined normally by player, just a little more random this way.
3) They can have a pregenerated character if they don't want to stop and build a new character. I will often have a number of pregenerated characters (made by myself and others at the table) available to choose from should the *unthinkable* happen. I often generate these new characters by method #2, but its a little quicker than building a new one.
4)If possible they can pick up playing one of the campaign's NPCs (only had this happen once). This seems to work best for characters who die mid-adventure and typically only lasts a session.
I'm not a real fan of letting the levels fluctuate too much. A major difference, say 3+ levels, doesn't really sound all that fun to me. I've played in games where a single level difference hasn't made much difference, but those games allowed the players to build their own characters the way they saw fit to build them. They could be weak, average, random, strong, ugly, pretty, smart, what-have-you... the players weren't dictated to.
Button-pushers like you make me sick!
Yeah?! Well…those buttons aren't going to push themselves.
But...uh...where'd you find that button anyway?
It's kind of my shtick.