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Can you overrun more than one opponent on your turn? I always assumed you could (actually, noone's ever tried it in my campaign but me, the GM), but when reading it, it doesn't appear that you can. Also, can you make an attack while performing an overrun? It appears that by RAW, you would be able to if you charge, but you would not if doing so as a standard action.
Since Overrun is a Combat Manoeuver, you have to use an attack action to do it, which means that:
(1) You can't attack the creature you are overrunning - except if you have Greater Overrun, in which case you have an attack of opportunity on the foe you have knocked prone.
(2) You can't overrun more than once per round. Overrun is a manoeuver that's made during a move. I don't think you can use it with a full attack since that precludes moving - but I could be wrong... again :-)
Since Overrun is a Combat Manoeuver, you have to use an attack action to do it, which means that:
(1) You can't attack the creature you are overrunning - except if you have Greater Overrun, in which case you have an attack of opportunity on the foe you have knocked prone.
(2) You can't overrun more than once per round. Overrun is a manoeuver that's made during a move. I don't think you can use it with a full attack since that precludes moving - but I could be wrong... again :-)
I'm asking because I'm trying to come up with strategies using the combat maneuvers in the game and I'm not sure how this one is meant to work.
It says: "as a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge," without the additional phrase: "in place of a melee attack", like the rules for bull rush have. I interpret that to mean that if you use it as standard action, you wouldn't get an attack, but if you use it as a charge, you still get your attack at the end of a charge.
It seems silent on whether or not you can do it more than once per round. I would say that it leans toward only overunning one target per round, but I'm not sure. Assuming this is the case, what if the target chooses to avoid you? Since you never make a combat maneuver check and another foe lies along your path, can you choose to overrun that one instead?
BTW, what are situations that others have used this maneuver? Please divulge :)
Can you overrun more than one opponent on your turn? I always assumed you could (actually, noone's ever tried it in my campaign but me, the GM), but when reading it, it doesn't appear that you can. Also, can you make an attack while performing an overrun? It appears that by RAW, you would be able to if you charge, but you would not if doing so as a standard action.
Yeah, the rules are silent here. The language for overrun uses the singular to refer to the target of an overrun, but that's hardly a specific limitation as to its use. Given the less than outrageous benefits that overrun provides, combined with the AoO's it provokes, it certainly doesn't appear to be unbalanced to allow overrun to apply to multiple targets per use (a running of the gauntlet, so to speak). It appears your GM will have to make a ruling for this one.
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In my Friday night LoF Group i have a paladin who does mounted combat. His favorite action is to charge one Gnoll and have the horse overrun another that is in the way. Since the total actions come to a total of One move One attack and one CBM I allow it. Since the charge is a move from the horse and an attack from the paladin, i dont let him attack the final target with the horse, so he can overrun instead. I think this is a creative use of the horse allowing the paladin to break through a line and get behind it.
I'm asking because I'm trying to come up with strategies using the combat maneuvers in the game and I'm not sure how this one is meant to work.
Once again, I might be wrong, but I think you use it either to (1) make your opponent fall prone, or (2) simply get behind the enemy - to reach the BBEG/spellcaster/artifact/exit/whatever.
It says: "as a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge," without the additional phrase: "in place of a melee attack", like the rules for bull rush have. I interpret that to mean that if you use it as standard action, you wouldn't get an attack, but if you use it as a charge, you still get your attack at the end of a charge.
It seems silent on whether or not you can do it more than once per round. I would say that it leans toward only overunning one target per round, but I'm not sure. Assuming this is the case, what if the target chooses to avoid you? Since you never make a combat maneuver check and another foe lies along your path, can you choose to overrun that one instead?
You're right, it's a Standard. Only one Overrun manoeuver. Should your opponent choose to avoid you, you can of course continue your move and Overrun the next one, since you haven't made the Overrun check yet.
Note that, with the appropriate feats, opponents can't avoid you, and you can get an AoO if you succeed.
I don't know for the Charge, but I think it replaces the attack. Otherwise, you could have two moves + manoeuver + attack, which is too much.
In light of the additional feat options, I now think you have to limit the overrun to 1 opponent.
I agree with Louis IX's breakdown above.
Thanks for the feedback. Now I'm curious as to when you'd want to overrun. I'm trying to think of the primary intent as to what it would be used for. The only two things I can think of are:
1) overrun something to escape.
2) overrun something to get to something.
Both these options I can only see being viable in a narrow space, as you otherwise would be able to simply go around whatever is in your way.
EDIT: One other instance would be with multiple opponents on the battlefield effectively creating a "narrow space" in a given direction, such as getting to the BBEG. But here, if the opponents are two or more deep, then you aren't getting behind their lines anyway as you could only overrun one foe.
Thanks for the feedback. Now I'm curious as to when you'd want to overrun. I'm trying to think of the primary intent as to what it would be used for. The only two things I can think of are:
1) overrun something to escape.
2) overrun something to get to something.
Both these options I can only see being viable in a narrow space, as you otherwise would be able to simply go around whatever is in your way.
I agree with those uses. Pretty much never coming up almost all of the time.
Thanks for the feedback. Now I'm curious as to when you'd want to overrun. I'm trying to think of the primary intent as to what it would be used for. The only two things I can think of are:
1) overrun something to escape.
2) overrun something to get to something.
Both these options I can only see being viable in a narrow space, as you otherwise would be able to simply go around whatever is in your way.
EDIT: One other instance would be with multiple opponents on the battlefield effectively creating a "narrow space" in a given direction, such as getting to the BBEG. But here, if the opponents are two or more deep, then you aren't getting behind their lines anyway as you could only overrun one foe.
If you specialize in Overrunning foes (read: take a couple feats in that regard), you also have (as a bonus, since it's compatible with 1 and 2):
3) make someone fall prone.As Treantmonk suggested in his Monk Guide, it's an interesting variant for the Trip manoeuver (except that you can do it only once).
If you have two lines of melee foes protecting something/someone, you could Overrun one guy, but you'd find yourself in quite a difficult position (5 to 7 full attacks against you). Choices, choices...
In fact, all this thread made me reread the relevant sections from the PRD, and making this manoeuver as a Standard action during a Move makes it quite useless against any group of enemies.
EDIT: And I also don't like the fact that having the Improved feat makes your enemy unable to avoid you. I'd have ruled that a character only wanting to pass through could wave that sentence, only activating it when he wants to make his enemy fall. And I'd have added something as well: if the enemy is properly intimidated, he will try to avoid you (more tactical options, there).
Thanks for the feedback. Now I'm curious as to when you'd want to overrun. I'm trying to think of the primary intent as to what it would be used for. The only two things I can think of are:
1) overrun something to escape.
2) overrun something to get to something.
Both these options I can only see being viable in a narrow space, as you otherwise would be able to simply go around whatever is in your way.
Number 2 could be usefull to charge the BBEG and end combat swiftly. Think summoner or someone buffing/healing the mooks. I'm not sure how you could make a viable build that uses overrun as its main tactic. Well, maybe it could work on a mount.
Question 1: New here, but isn't the whole point of the mounted Combat line to simulate in the environs of the game what would happen in actual medieval combat? there are COUNTLESS examples of cavalry charges breaking through walls of foes many lines deep. True, it was far from safe to do so for either the horses or riders, but it was done often enough to have it be a standard tactic... and develop more sturdy forms of barding to make the mounts last longer to boot.
Mechanically, I'd go with (in the situation of 2 lines of foes) Mounted Charge with a lance, Ride by attack and Over run (and high armor barding and personal armor too, lol).
Strike the front rank with the lance, have your mount overrun the one behind and then move out of their threatened area. Since a single action can never provoke more than one AoO from any given person (except with special abilities that grunts are unlikely to have) you still only trigger 5 AoO's.
Question 2: Your mount is large. (IE a horse) can you chose to squeeze through a single file in a rank of enemies? Can you do it in a charge? and could a cavalry charge close ranks to be one-one when they confront the line of foes? In the movies (yes, hollywood strikes again) it's quite obvious that horsemen did this, but mechanically is there concessions for this type of maneuver?