Brawler
BAB: full
High Save: Fortitude
Low Saves: Reflex/ Will
Skills: 4+int) Acrobatics, Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (local), Perception, Perfusion, Sense motive, Slight of hand, Stealth, Survival
Alignment: Any
Proficiency: All Simple Weapons, Light Armor no shields
Hit Dice 1d10
Level Special
1. Knockout Punch (1), Catch of Guard, Improved Unarmed Strike (1d4)
2. Brute Strength
3. Mob Defense +1
4. Brute Strength
5. Blood Drunk (1)
6. Knockout punch (2), Brute Strength, Mob Defense +2
7. Damage Reduction 1/-
8. Brute Strength, Unarmed attack (2d4)
9. Mob Defense +3
10. Brute Strength, Damage Reduction 2/-
11. Blood Drunk (2)
12. Knockout Punch (3), Brute Strength, Mob Defense +4
13. Damage Reduction 3/-
14. Brute Strength
15. Mob Defense +5, unarmed attack (3d4)
16. Brute Strength, Damage Reduction 4/-
17. Blood Drunk (3)
18. Knockout Punch (4), Brute Strength, Mob Defense +6
19. Damage Reduction 5/-
20. Deadly Punch, Brute Strength
Knockout Punch: this ability functions as stunning fist but takes a full round action to perform, at 6th level the Brawler can perform a free bull rush attempt without needing to move as part of there Knockout Punch, At 12th level on a successful Knockout Punch the target is knocked unconscious for 1d4 rounds, At 18th level on a successful Knockout Punch the Brawler deals double damage.
Catch of Guard: the Brawler gains this as a free feat
Mob Defense: the brawler gains a moral bonus to ac when ever he is adjacent to more than one foe.
Blood Drunk: the Brawler gains a bonus to attack and damage based on the amount of damage he has taken, this bonus increases as they level. Blood Drunk (1) 25% loss of HP +1, 50% loss of HP +2, 75% loss of HP +3 100% loss of HP +4, Blood Drunk (2) 25% loss Of HP +2, 50% loss of HP +4, 75% loss of HP +6, 100% loss of HP +8, Blood Drunk (3) 25% loss of HP +4, 50% loss of HP +8, 75% loss of Hp +12, 100% loss of HP +16
Damage Reduction: same as Barbarian
Deadly Punch: If a Knockout punch is successful the foe must make a new fortitude save or die, DC= 10+ ½ Brawlers level+ Brawlers wisdom modifier.
Brute Strength: I am still working on this part but it will be similar to the Rogues rogue talents or the Barbarians rage powers.
this is a class i have been working on for several years and i would love some feed back on it.
is this class too powerful or does it seem balanced, are there any sugestions or ideas of the abilities/
is this class too powerful or does it seem balanced, are there any sugestions or ideas of the abilities/
The class might have problems in the AC department. It has light armor, and up to a +6 bonus to AC when next to opponents, but Dexterity might not end up being high enough to give him a chance of surviving a full attack from a level appropriate mob. He needs strength for to-hit and damage, and constitution to give him enough HP to make one of his core class abilities useful (Blood Drunk). Dexterity and Wisdom would have next priority because they would help his AC and Will respectfully.
A problem with the concept of Blood Drunk might also effect the survivability and playability of the class. Really successful spellcasters define themselves by making it close to impossible for the enemies to accomplish damage. A class that needs to take a hurtin' before he really starts to do damage might not mesh well.
Making the Knock Out Punch a full round action lowers its usefulness. Being fairly squishy, the Brawler is probably going to be more of a skirmisher. I don't see him getting more than one full round action off before either he or the enemy needs to be in some way incapacitated. Maybe making it a full round action at level 1 is alright, but allow the higher level characters to at least use the attack as part of a charge. (Hint: Flying Kick)
I hope my thoughts on the class are helpful.
is this class too powerful or does it seem balanced, are there any sugestions or ideas of the abilities/The class might have problems in the AC department. It has light armor, and up to a +6 bonus to AC when next to opponents, but Dexterity might not end up being high enough to give him a chance of surviving a full attack from a level appropriate mob. He needs strength for to-hit and damage, and constitution to give him enough HP to make one of his core class abilities useful (Blood Drunk). Dexterity and Wisdom would have next priority because they would help his AC and Will respectfully.
A problem with the concept of Blood Drunk might also effect the survivability and playability of the class. Really successful spellcasters define themselves by making it close to impossible for the enemies to accomplish damage. A class that needs to take a hurtin' before he really starts to do damage might not mesh well.
Making the Knock Out Punch a full round action lowers its usefulness. Being fairly squishy, the Brawler is probably going to be more of a skirmisher. I don't see him getting more than one full round action off before either he or the enemy needs to be in some way incapacitated. Maybe making it a full round action at level 1 is alright, but allow the higher level characters to at least use the attack as part of a charge. (Hint: Flying Kick)
I hope my thoughts on the class are helpful.
thank you for your response
the flying kick idea would probably fall into the Brute Strength ability.
This sounds nifty.
Could I write this in my Dramatically Rewritten Fighter thread?
This sounds nifty.
Could I write this in my Dramatically Rewritten Fighter thread?
feel free
bump
bump, i really need some impute
This is a pretty slow-moving forum. It may be several hours between inputs.
Is this class designed to deal only unarmed attack (i.e. 3d4 damage)? That'd be an average of 7.5 damage, which is really piss-poor.
I'd actually think that a d6 would be better, since a fighter is foregoing magical weapon modifiers and higher damage rolls.
Something involving natural armor might be nifty. Brawlers having thick skin and all.
This is a pretty slow-moving forum. It may be several hours between inputs.
Is this class designed to deal only unarmed attack (i.e. 3d4 damage)? That'd be an average of 7.5 damage, which is really piss-poor.
I'd actually think that a d6 would be better, since a fighter is foregoing magical weapon modifiers and higher damage rolls.
Something involving natural armor might be nifty. Brawlers having thick skin and all.
both are good points and sorry for my impatiants, the damage of there unarmed attack is meant to be low so as to not deminish the unarmed ability of the Monk, but i am currently working on the Brute Strength abilities of the brawler and those are both things i intend to be dealt with.
I do think the unarmed damage needs to scale a bit differently. As is it's an 8 level wait in-between upgrades, and that seems a bit long, even though you do get a whole extra die. Don't be afraid to scale somewhat like the monk, the poor guy isn't that powerful anyway.
I want to say I don't like the full round action on the knockout punch, but it works very well. Although I don't understand the purpose of shoving someone away after you've stunned them, I like the fact that the mechanic exists. Since you don't have an insane number of attacks like the monk, the idea actually works fairly well.
I did something similar to mob defense with a feat, except for that one you have to hit adjacent opponents unarmed. It works fairly well.
The progression looks odd to me just because there's a lot of stuff on the bar (Reminds me of the 3.5 Barbarian!), but that's an aesthetic thing, and I get why you did it. Have you tried playing around with it to give the class more knockout punch?
Also, since the knockout punch functions off of wisdom, how about giving the class some abilities that give a bonus to wisdom? Maybe even a good will save?
This class and that ability make me think of making Street Fighter characters. I believe that you've been working on it for a while, I like what I see!
thank you for the response
I'll have to see your brute strength abilities to say for sure, but it looks pretty good thus far. Just make sure said abilities aren't too strong, y'know?
I'm with Madcap Storm King on the unarmed damage - you can probably advance it more in a monkly manner (perhaps 4 levels behind).
I'm thinking I'd probably move knockout punch to a standard action - you know, so you can run up and wallop 'em, rather than standing still for the turn. Its good cinema either way, but one's substantially more useful.
It's hard to say until we've seen all the abilities, so when you post Brute Strength it will be much easier.
I'd like to see the Knockout Punch DC based on strength instead of wisdom. Wisdom doesn't really make much sense, and the MAD of the monk is a problem as it is; no need to translate it to a class that anyway needs more dex and con because he's less mobile. I see why you made Knock-out punch into a fullround action, but it makes it more or less worthless; make it a standard action at least. It still prevents it from being used with other attacks that round.
Also, he seems to frail for being a front-liner and to slow to be a skirmisher. I'd say give him d12 hit points like the barbarian, a natural armor bonus equal to the lesser of 1/4th his level and his Con bonus or something like that.
This class as it is now seems to be a more immobile version of the monk, which is already a (power-wise) sub-par class.
OK so how does this sound, medium armor proficiency, and knockout punch is a standard action
bump
Brute Strength
Ideas for the Brawler’s class ability
Heavy throw: +10 range to improvised ranged weapons, may be taken up to 3 times
Hammer Fist: 1.5x STR mod to damage (using both hands for one punch)
Feign Proficiency: reduce non proficiency penalties to -2 instead of -4, requires 4th level
Improved Damage Reduction: same as the Barbarians, +1/-DR, may be taken up to 3 times requires 8th level.
Iron Stomach: immunity to all ingested poisons and toxins.
Just a few idea I will be working on some more to flesh out the class
Brute Strength
Ideas for the Brawler’s class ability
Heavy throw: +10 range to improvised ranged weapons, may be taken up to 3 times
Hammer Fist: 1.5x STR mod to damage (using both hands for one punch)
Feign Proficiency: reduce non proficiency penalties to -2 instead of -4, requires 4th level
Improved Damage Reduction: same as the Barbarians, +1/-DR, may be taken up to 3 times requires 8th level.
Iron Stomach: immunity to all ingested poisons and toxins.
Just a few idea I will be working on some more to flesh out the class
I would suggest some special niche things that only the brawler can do. As is, every one worth their salt will take the 1.5 damage ability, and the DR is the barbarian's. Maybe give them a reason to use improvised weapons past a certain point?
Something that increases damage of improvised weapons would be cool, also a bump to grappling would be nice, maybe no penalty for grappling a creature one size category larger, or some wicked throw your opponent across a barroom. Look at MMA fighters for some inspiration.
Maybe something in there Brute Strength ability something like
Deadly Improvised Weapon: increase the damage of any improvised weapon by one size, this ability may be taken up to three times.
Brute Strength
i am adding a few feats to be taken as part of Brute Strength
Agile Manuvers, Defensive Combat Training, Deflect Arrows, Diehard, Endurance, Fleet, Improved Disarm (does not need to meet prerequisits), Improved Grapple, Improvised Weapon Mastery, Snatch Arrows, Throw Anything, Toughness.
if you have any ideas feel free to tell me.
bump
How about a higher DR against Crushing damage?
How about a higher DR against Crushing damage?
you mean like there DR is higher vs foes who grapple them? that could be a nice Brute Strength abillity.
It is quite possible I do not understand damage types as I do not play 3.5 or Pathfinder. What I was thinking was fists, clubs, things like that. This makes them really good at bare knuckle boxing matches…which was the first thing that came to my mind when I read the thread title.
I thought a boost there would give them a niche where they can shine and still have some balance.
bump