RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
Announcement
I didn't like Saga, but I'll miss the minis. Maybe I can get some more Imperial Knights though.
A few more books to track down and I can officially be done as a WotC customer. Kind of sad in a way.
|
Ouch, though honestly I'm with Bill up above right now. Saga was the last of the WoTC books I was purchasing since the edition change, and we've finally pretty much started using all PRPG stuff rather than making use of older books, so I don't need to track down any 3.5 stuff anymore.
With this announcement I'll just have to finish up my saga collection and then I can move on completely. I try and vote with my cash and I always felt like a bit of a hypocrite purchasing from them when I wasn't happy with the direction the company was taking, so this certainly makes that a lot easier.
|
I have to admit, this is one of the various announcements going around lately about the fate of various games and systems that did in fact, really surprise me.
I would have thought the Star Wars licence would continue to be a licence to print money. Surely, it may not have been as profitable as the suits in Hasbro would have liked with the various licencing costs and whatnot, but I wouldn't have thought it would be a money-sink.
I have to admit, this is one of the various announcements going around lately about the fate of various games and systems that did in fact, really surprise me.
I would have thought the Star Wars licence would continue to be a licence to print money. Surely, it may not have been as profitable as the suits in Hasbro would have liked with the varioud licencing costs and whatnot, but I wouldn't have thought it would be a money-sink.
I'll bet it was a very expensive license, though.
This makes me wonder what the fate of Hasbro's Star wars toy line will be.
If the bath the toy companies, like Hasbro, took with the Phantom Menace merchandizing glut didn't dissuade them from carrying Star Wars toys, nothing going on in the RPG biz will. As I recall, most of these companies overpaid for the licensing, over produced the toys, and then took massive losses when the demand wasn't what they anticipated.
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
|
Wow, a lot of people at my table will be flabbergasted to hear this!
Its not just the Star Wars toy line that might be affected by this, but what of 4e as well? Many of the ideas of 4e were tested using SAGA. What will happen to those who've worked so long on SAGA?
I think the entire Star Wars development team is Rodney Thompson. Everyone else was either freelance, let go, or put on 4e. Still, it's sad. I guess it served its purpose, made some money, tested 4e and now it's tipped over the cost/benefit analysis into liability. Sad to see it go, but I'll be stocking up on the books I missed. One day, I will play a tabletop game of Star Wars. One day...
|
|
I think the entire Star Wars development team is Rodney Thompson. Everyone else was either freelance, let go, or put on 4e. Still, it's sad. I guess it served its purpose, made some money, tested 4e and now it's tipped over the cost/benefit analysis into liability. Sad to see it go, but I'll be stocking up on the books I missed. One day, I will play a tabletop game of Star Wars. One day...
Its fun, too bad its no longer supported...
Its not just the Star Wars toy line that might be affected by this, but what of 4e as well?
Well, the Star Wars Saga edition is being canceled. Its like CSI: Miami getting canceled, or the cancellation of Marvel Super Hero Monopoly (not that these other items are happening, just frex). It could just as easily be the simple cancellation of a game because the property isn't faring as well; CSI and CSI: Miami have similar, but still different enough styles and audiences that what buggers up one may not do the same for the other. The fact that 4e and Saga are intertwined mechanically will matter little, its got a lot more to do with the viability of THAT line than the system as a whole.
|
|
Well, the Star Wars Saga edition is being canceled. Its like CSI: Miami getting canceled, or the cancellation of Marvel Super Hero Monopoly (not that these other items are happening, just frex). It could just as easily be the simple cancellation of a game because the property isn't faring as well; CSI and CSI: Miami have similar, but still different enough styles and audiences that what buggers up one may not do the same for the other. The fact that 4e and Saga are intertwined mechanically will matter little, its got a lot more to do with the viability of THAT line than the system as a whole.
Well I meant really that SAGA editions was a competitor of 4e straight from the mother company. I wonder more if this decision was made to shore up their flagship product by cutting out an internal competitor.
Well I meant really that SAGA editions was a competitor of 4e straight from the mother company. I wonder more if this decision was made to shore up their flagship product by cutting out an internal competitor.
My suspicion is that WotC had cranked out all of the obvious source books (the low-hanging fruit) and didn't see much of a business case for paying the license renewal with just the prospect of increasingly marginal sourcebooks ahead. In fact, I'll bet this decision was made some time ago and led to the relatively fast publication pace of SWSE books over the last couple of years. They wanted to get the obvious stuff done, put the sales money in the bank, and let the license expire.
Sigh the last thing wotc made I even cared about, damn shame was a good system.
Well with Saga gone they won't be getting any more of my money. Sucks to be you WoTC.
That's a disappointment. I liked Saga, but I never got to play it more than one round at one con. Sigh.
It won't be long before we get the announcement of a new Star Wars RPG, 4th Edition style...
PS : This is not a [Teasing] [Flaming] [Trolling].
Man we just started playing it and are having a great time. Oh well its not like I can't find info on Star Wars from other sources.
This will also end my purchases with Wotc, although I'm interested in Gamma World 4e if and when it comes out.
It won't be long before we get the announcement of a new Star Wars RPG, 4th Edition style...
Or, at some point in the "near" future, WoTC creates a Science Fiction RPG using their own IP (Building off d20 Future?).
I'll echo that I wasn't fond of SAGA. I did, however, enjoy the run of the SWRPG and the Revised version. I never got into the minis, mostly due to playing D&D miniatures at the time and collecting by the case at the time.
However, a good buddy of mine, who will likely chime in on this, DOES like SAGA, and runs a Thursday night game at our FLGS. He uses the minis and the books. I feel bad for him now, knowing this... This stinks.
As a side note to David about the toy line:
I highly doubt that Hasbro will let that line go. They're releasing a 3" figure sized AT-AT this year sometime. It's said to be like the Clone Wars Turbo Tank with legs, including a speeder bike, a space in the bottom for Luke, and room in the head for up to 4 or 6 figs (can't recall which). It will also have panels on the side to open.
/d
I'll echo that I wasn't fond of SAGA. I did, however, enjoy the run of the SWRPG and the Revised version. I never got into the minis, mostly due to playing D&D miniatures at the time and collecting by the case at the time.
However, a good buddy of mine, who will likely chime in on this, DOES like SAGA, and runs a Thursday night game at our FLGS. He uses the minis and the books. I feel bad for him now, knowing this... This stinks.
As a side note to David about the toy line:
** spoiler omitted **/d
Heh, ironically, I'm not that upset by this. I was worried that the with the announcement of the Gamma World "D&D Genre" book, that Saga was going to end, but we'd have a whole new Star Wars RPG rolled out, and I'm pretty happy with Saga.
As it is, I can still enjoy the system and not wonder what is going to happen to the line.
However, I am a bit bummed about the line. I've been picking up KOTOR era minis for my current campaign, but I'm going to have to expand my collection if I want to run other campaigns in other eras.
Also, from what I understand, Hasbro's deal with Lucasfilm is completely separate from WOTC's, and the toys are doing just fine, more than enough to warrant Hasbro's continued interest.
Maybe WEG will rise from the ashes and pick up the RPG line again? :D
One can only hope, though with the release of the prequels has probably increased the licensing cost, and WEG hasn't fared well since they lost the license in the first place.
That being said, I am sad that SAGA is getting discontinued, as is was definitely the best d20 version of Star Wars. Though the fact that I can finally step away from WotC without looking back is a good thing. I've wanted to ignore them since they started acting like poopyheads with the end of 3.5 (just my opinion).
I was rather unsurprised by this. A little disappointed (I do enjoy SAGA quite a bit actually) but I can now focus on picking up the last remaining books before they go out of print. (One a pay check for the next few months should do the job.)
Really shame because I just found Star Wars: Saga and I like it a lot..
Announcement
The tough economy is hurting everyone.
The core rules will be available forever in used and traded form.
There will not be any more "spluffty" miniatures and new printed, official adventures.
I wonder how much of the issue was based on licensing fees and arrangements with Lucas Films?
In service,
Rich
Go to www.drgames.org.
They must do what they feel is right to the Force
|
|
I liked Saga edition. To me it felt like you really could customize a character of any class. The massive proliferation of books was unnecesary, but that is what WOTC does now. They start something, put out a lot of poorly play-tested books in a hurry, and drop it. It is kind of sad that THE giant in the RPG industry has gone this direction, but apparently they are not shutting down or selling out yet. As long as role-playing games are still being made, someone will make something cool. Long live Paizo, hopefully this may spur the thinking on a sci-fi/space opera rpg in pathfinder style. Think what could happen if they weren't restricted by cannon or traditional classes and abilities.
What a shame. Quick Paizo, buy the license!
Sithfinder?
I'll be very interested to see where the prices go on the Saga edition books, once they've been out of print for a year or two. If I time it right, I might be able to expand my Star Wars RPG library with books I otherwise wouldn't buy....
(reposted and expanded from another thread)
I recall seeing the SW Revised Edition books going for over $100 dollars a while after that edition was discontinued. And this was with a new SW RPG game on the way. Now, with the license lapsing, there isn't even a new edition coming. It's just done.
I'm gonna take this chance to grab the books I still need and get out while the gettin's good! There's still so many minis I'll never get to get though. :(
I'm gonna take this chance to grab the books I still need and get out while the gettin's good! There's still so many minis I'll never get to get though. :(
May have to raid the half price books.....
My suspicion is that WotC had cranked out all of the obvious source books (the low-hanging fruit) and didn't see much of a business case for paying the license renewal with just the prospect of increasingly marginal sourcebooks ahead. In fact, I'll bet this decision was made some time ago and led to the relatively fast publication pace of SWSE books over the last couple of years. They wanted to get the obvious stuff done, put the sales money in the bank, and let the license expire.
Well I meant really that SAGA editions was a competitor of 4e straight from the mother company. I wonder more if this decision was made to shore up their flagship product by cutting out an internal competitor.
I'm thinking this had a lot to do with the RPG side of things. Honestly, even as an avid Star Wars fan, the big bases have been covered. We have sourcebooks for every major timeline, including KoTOR, Legacy, and Force Unleashed. Crossing the Expanded Universe from multiple media sources into one consistent game has been a SW geeks wet dream. I got stats and Minis for Vader's Apprentice, Darth Revan, and Cade Skywalker, all in the same game. At this point any future sourcebooks would be extremely niche and very risky to make.
As far as the minis go, I have no clue what happened. I know people who don't even play RPG's who bought the minis, just for the sake of collecting packs of SW figures and getting some of their faves.
I'd really love it if Mongoose Publishing got the RPG rights to Star wars. I'd be over cloud nine if it used the new Traveller rules.
I'd really love it if Mongoose Publishing got the RPG rights to Star wars. I'd be over cloud nine if it used the new Traveller rules.
But their production values are just horrific- I have not one Mongoose book that is properly bound and doesn't feel cheap and tacky to the touch. Fantasy Flight or SJG could make a good fist of it, methinks, though if White Wolf handled it, it could be interesting, system wise. This is all spitballing, in any case, I doubt if anyone will be willing to risk the investment in this economy.
I'd really love it if Mongoose Publishing got the RPG rights to Star wars. I'd be over cloud nine if it used the new Traveller rules.
Moongose Sart Wras would be a great product.
I liked Saga edition. To me it felt like you really could customize a character of any class. The massive proliferation of books was unnecesary, but that is what WOTC does now. They start something, put out a lot of poorly play-tested books in a hurry, and drop it. It is kind of sad that THE giant in the RPG industry has gone this direction, but apparently they are not shutting down or selling out yet. As long as role-playing games are still being made, someone will make something cool. Long live Paizo, hopefully this may spur the thinking on a sci-fi/space opera rpg in pathfinder style. Think what could happen if they weren't restricted by cannon or traditional classes and abilities.
Seriously, who doesn't put out a ton of books for a popular product? I'm pretty sure that if we count up how many books WEG put out for D6 Star Wars, it would be more than WotC put out for both D20 and Saga combined.
Now, in some respects, bloat is bloat, but in a licensed property like Star Wars, there's a TON of campaign material that people will want a sourcebook on. Some planets (Tatooine, Coruscant, etc.) warrant their own sourcebook, whereas others warrant a mention in a sector/quadrant/region sourcebook. Some races/factions might warrant their own sourcebook, while many others don't. I don't know if one ever got produced, but, heck, with all the backstory on Mandalorians, a Mandalorian Sourcebook would have been pretty cool.
Too bad. Never got around to buy it. But had plans on getting it and adapting the rules for a Mass Effect campaign. May still do so though. A question for those who've tried both, would the Saga rules be a good fit with Mass Effect do you think?
I'm sure between the amount of internal resources WotC needed to support the line and the licensing costs to Lucasfilm, not to mention the time it took to vet things by them, this was just a straight economic decision. It's probably better for them to focus on their core game line (D&D 4E) and also work on some new projects like some of their board games.
I think WotC can be very proud of their Saga Edition products and with the remaining books coming out there is more than enough material to support pretty much any kind of SW campaign. I don't feel the product line was bloated. It had the core, and then mostly books to support play in different eras plus a few books that focused on certain classes/styles of play. If anything they could have used a few more full adventures.
I have most of the minis from the early sets and a lot of later ones. I'm not particularly worried about being able to get some minis to support my game. It's not like common stormtrooper minis are suddenly going to go for $10 a piece. It might get a little more costly for folks trying to complete sets or get particularly popular rares/very rares for use in the minis game.
I do wish they had put out a few more sets of Galaxy Tiles however as well as another set of Star Wars ships.
L