Ok so I bought the 4th ed and it's nice. I think the knight, being mostly a horseman gets the short stick but that's my opinion.
But could someone PLEASE tell me how skills are done? I get that the skills everyone can do -climbing, diplomacy etc is now a simple attribute roll. but what about knowledge? What about crafts?? Lets say I want to create a painting. It's important to the game and needs a roll. what do I do?? I cannot believe they didnt put a simple system to do that/
Please?
It is my understanding that all of that is a simple attribute roll.
No "Skills" its all RP'ed....or at the very best done with a Attribute roll.
Think 1e AD&D before the NWP mess of Oriental Adventures.
Ok so I bought the 4th ed and it's nice. I think the knight, being mostly a horseman gets the short stick but that's my opinion.
But could someone PLEASE tell me how skills are done? I get that the skills everyone can do -climbing, diplomacy etc is now a simple attribute roll. but what about knowledge? What about crafts?? Lets say I want to create a painting. It's important to the game and needs a roll. what do I do?? I cannot believe they didn't put a simple system to do that/
There is no official skills system. That is by design, not an oversight.
In older generation systems characters were good at what the player decided they were good at (for skills type things). If you need to know how well you do something in C&C you can make a siege check vs. whatever attribute you think is appropriate. Otherwise, you can just randomly determine via a percentile roll or something. I myself was enchanted by C&C initially but then the very many blemishes with the system combined with the horrible situation with the castlekeepers guide combined with actual core problems with the system, led me to begin working on a derivative system. It started small, grew out of control, then I abandoned it. I originally was just going to tweak C&C and have it still be basically just C&C with some corrections but as I dug more and more I got more and more frustrated with the problems I encountered. I tried to patch those issues then had patches on top of patches then decided to say screw it and excise everything from the system that wasn't absolutely necessary and then just include the things I liked, but then I ran out of steam on that and got side-tracked working on and promoting d20pfsrd.com.
I hope to get back to it at some point but the CR is too high right now. I think I need a few more levels in game designer before I try it again :)
Gygax built a Pseudo-Skill system for his Castle Zagyg campaign....I think its unavailble at this time though. Gygax Games pulled the License.
Eric
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Seige mechanic provides the Castlekeeper the guideline of using prime attribute or a non-prime to distinguish between the bonus to the check.
As jreyst clearly pointed out, the absense of skill check mechnic is not an oversite. Chenault and fellow C&C gamers describe their actions, and if a roll is needed for something such as knowledge - then Intelligence is useful, whereas Wisdom helps with discernment and choice, etc.
The game is foundationally one of the earliest modern OGL Troll Lord Games throwbacks to early AD&D, along side many of the retro items from Necromancer games. C&C is meant to be enjoyed, and to flow, and for the game to function just as well as having a 700 page core rulebook.
Its very much D&D, as much as allowed under the OGL. Similarly, I play OSRIC 2.0 on occasion, which experiences the same AD&D effect. Keep in mind the absense of rules, does not necessarily mean there is a need for them; the pardigm of these games centers on the Castle Keeper/Game Master as the the rules. In that regard, and from a certain point of view, there are just as many "rules" about the world as there are in any other game, even moreso. The human mind has a far greater capacity than any hard-bound book title can ever cover.
Play. Enjoy.
>> If you need it, use the following:
Skill Check: Player throws d20. A roll UNDER her attribute achieves a success commensurate with the amount by which the DC class was beaten e.g. a roll of a 1 implies great success. Tie all things in the universe to aspects of strength, intelligence, wisdom, dexterity, constitution, charisma, comliness (if needed). Provide certain classes a "bonus" toward checks against their prime attribute (as desired). Provide "bonuses" to checks that contextually are well described/planned for/thought through by the player's own intelligence or wisdom/ or roleplaying etc.
Percetile Check: Determine the % chance of something and use that number as the difficulty class, EXCEPT ask the player to throw d% UNDER the % chance i.e. 35% chance of successfully identifying the voice heard in the next room as Bishop Morenthau. Player rolls 05% and achieves great success, meaning not only is it the Bishop's voice, but the player discerns a fearful tone in the voice. (Conversely, a "Perception Check" could be the average of INT/WIS combined.)
The notion here is that you don't necessarily need these things spelled out for you, IF you are a good GM. GOOD GM's back in the day, and now share in common a good "sense" of the internal consistency of the mileau that they're presenting. So much so, that their in-the-moment-judgment about the check difficulty or its modifiers are consistent from game to game, and interally consistent with other in-game rulings.
Years ago, the books were purchased to give the GM an IDEA of how they might develop their own internal "sense" for their world..... yet, originally NOT designed to define that sense completely for them.
In many games today, yes even in the modern gamist era, some of the best game moments are "felt" when the players perceive the GM to be flowingly making those rulings, and keeping the game moving with adherance to descriptive context i.e. are the floorboards loud, are there guard nearby, or does the voice have a discernable accent?
The reliance upon rulesets in modern gaming is fine - no value judgment. Pathfinder RPG is still my preferred game of choice as i play it weekly. However, I've learned from the game's creators that the flowing "sweet spot" of the game is not found in rulebooks- - and play OSRIC/1e for just that purpose..... Enjoyment this way depends on YOU, and YOUR PLAYERS. Let nobody tell you that you "need" rules to make rulings, that is, the game master IS the ruleset when judicating earlier rulesets, or streamlined ones such as Castle & Crusades.
As always, take what you can and leave the rest.
Just my 2cp.
-Pax