Meteor Hammer and Armor Bonus?

[Ploppy]

Hi all,

in our new PF campaign my DM allowed my Monk to use a Meteor Hammer:

:

Meteor Hammer: The meteor hammer is a deceptive and unpredictable weapon, as simple as it is versatile. A typical meteor hammer consists of two spherical metal weights like flail heads attached via a 5-foot length of rope or chain. These weights are whirled and wrapped around the wielder’s body, and can be used for strikes, grabs, and trips. With a meteor hammer, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an enemy (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails). You can also use it to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the meteor hammer to avoid being tripped. If your trip attack is successful, you can choose to forego the knockdown in favor of dragging your opponent 5 feet closer to you. Using a meteor hammer always requires both hands and gives you a 10-foot reach. In addition to the above abilities, the meteor hammer has different effects depending on what style is being used. Switching between styles is a free action and must be declared at the beginning of the combat round.

* Fortress: In this style, one of the hammers is held close in the off hand and used to parry attacks as if it were a shield. When using this style, you gain a +1 shield bonus to AC.

* Meteor Storm: This style involves spinning both heads in complex patterns, occasionally smashing in from the side or coiling the rope around a forearm before launching a weight forward in a punching motion. This style allows the meteor hammer to be treated as a double weapon.

- it can be used as a double weapon, requiring seperate enchantments of each side of the weapon.
- The Fortress style allows using one side of the weapon for attacking and the other side defensively providing a shield bonus.

My question is can the offensive side of the weapon be enchanted with a weapon bonus for attacking and the defensive side with an AC bonus giving a higher shield bonus in fortess style???

or

If the defensive side is enchanted with a weapon bonus and the defendig ability, may I transfer this bonus into AC when using Fortress style or do I have to attack with this part of the weapon to gain this benefit?

Greetings Ploppy

[Louis IX]

I once made a build much like the schoolgirl bodyguard from Kill Bill, but, using Pathfinder beta at the time, I only found the spiked chain. Later, I learnt that Pathfinder removed the spiked chain's reach, and that build lost some of its tactical appeal. I also searched the web for a weapon more closely related to said bodyguard's... and found the Meteor Hammer.

I find your description interesting from a tactical versatility point of view, but I haven't found reference to it in the books I own. Is the Meteor Hammer a weapon you can actually use in Pathfinder? In D&D 3.5? Can you cite the book where it came from, and/or give its stats (damage, crit, etc.)?

To your questions, I'd answer Yes. But, since your DM probably house-ruled the weapon in, I'd rather ask him your questions (because he'll have the final say anyway).

[Ploppy]

First thanks for the reply.

Meteor Hammer is from the Legacy of Fire Player Guide. The OGL is linked in the first post...

[Magicdealer]

Fortress: In this style, one of the hammers is held close in the off hand and used to parry attacks as if it were a shield. When using this style, you gain a +1 shield bonus to AC.

according to this, I would say that it works similar to the two weapon defense style. It doesn't actually change it into armor type. It's a weapon that provides a +1 to ac when used to parry.

As for the defending enchantment, according to the wording I would say yes, you could transfer the enhancement bonus to your ac, but only for that side. For example, if you had one side +3 defending, and the other side was +5, you could only transfer the +3.

Note though, that if your dm let you use an unusual weapon, (s)he might take offense to you going to town and getting it enchanted in such a manner. I'd check with him/her just to be safe.

[Louis IX]

OK. So I read the page you mentioned, and I have a couple question: are the two styles you quoted the only ways of using this weapon?

If yes, this weapon really is a double weapon before anything else, and the only "option" is to use one of its heads as defence, or not.

Is the 10' reach including the adjacent square (like the spiked chain used to be), or not?

Is this reach available in the two styles? I would have thought, like the spiked chain (again), that using a double-weapon style would split your reach in two. Or the other way around: if you have a given reach with the double-weapon style, it stands to reason that you could use only one end to have a doubled reach. Thoughts?

It is categorized as a two-handed weapon. Does that mean that you get 1.5x Str when using only one end?

What happens when the rope between the heads is broken? Can you use the two halves as one-handed weapons? (a while ago, a sister of mine showed me something resembling the Battle Poi -see link in OP- and it was made of two parts, each used with one hand)

[Ploppy]

Hi Louis IX,

we faced to similar questions and houserouled the following:

Louis IX wrote:

Is the 10' reach including the adjacent square (like the spiked chain used to be), or not?

- Reach: only 10', no attack on adjected squares (like normal reach weopons like a spear). Mainly due to the historic usage of the weapon. Since you swing it around your body, you need some acceleration and swing radius for an effect.

Louis IX wrote:

Is this reach available in the two styles? I would have thought, like the spiked chain (again), that using a double-weapon style would split your reach in two. Or the other way around: if you have a given reach with the double-weapon style, it stands to reason that you could use only one end to have a doubled reach. Thoughts?

- Double weapon: our interpretation is that the style affects your way to swing the weapon around your body before striking. You always attack at 10', but by swinging differently you either bring both ends on striking speed and distance (double weapon) or decrease the hit rate for more flexible defending option (fortress style).

Louis IX wrote:

It is categorized as a two-handed weapon. Does that mean that you get 1.5x Str when using only one end?

- St-Bonus: 1.5 Str as single weapon (=two-handed weapon)and 1x + 0.5x Str as double weapon (primary and off hand).

Louis IX wrote:

What happens when the rope between the heads is broken? Can you use the two halves as one-handed weapons? (a while ago, a sister of mine showed me something resembling the Battle Poi -see link in OP- and it was made of two parts, each used with one hand)

- Hardness: The rope or chain of the weapon is the critical point. It defines its Hardness and Hitpoints for sundering. We have not thought about using each part as separate weapon - I would say not possible since you can not accelerate them to an effective speed.

Coming back to my original questions I think magicdealer is correct that the fortress style does not turn the weapon into armor ready to be enchanted with AC-Bonus.

But concerning the defending ability it comes up to the question if you have to make a melee attack to transfer enchanment bonus to AC or if you just have to "wield" the weapon.
Would be similar to a quarterstaff with two different enchantments on each side.

Greeting Ploppy

[Dragonborn3]

Another thing to consider, does the shield bonus keep you from getting your monk AC bonus? I would think not, but some DM's can be cruel... luckily, I haven't meet any yet.

[Magicdealer]

According to the wording in the monk entry for AC Bonus, it's *carrying a shield*, not getting a shield bonus. So he should be fine there.

As for the defending weapon: As a free action, the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon's enhancement bonus at the start of his turn before using the weapon, and the bonus to AC lasts until his next turn.

So I would say that you can allocate the bonus, and then use a different weapon to attack with even.

[Majuba]

Magicdealer wrote:

As for the defending weapon: As a free action, the wielder chooses how to allocate the weapon's enhancement bonus at the start of his turn before using the weapon, and the bonus to AC lasts until his next turn.

So I would say that you can allocate the bonus, and then use a different weapon to attack with even.

I would rule that "using" the "weapon" means attacking with the end of the double weapon with defending on it. *OR* at least treating your attacks as if you had - meaning you only get 1xStr with the other end, and regular Two-weapon fighting penalties (-2/-2 if you have the feat, -4/-8 if you don't).

SKR ruled here that it's reach doesn't change in either style.

All that said... it might lose reach in the Adventurer's Armory, given the change to the spiked chain (and per this, the bladed scarf).