I plan on being a halfling with a riding dog. The main purpose of the dog is for the 40' movement and full-round ranged attack awesomeness. I had some questions about this.
Let's assume the only thing he will do is carry me around. I also have a +4 to my ride check, which means any maneuver that requires a 5 (such as attacking while riding) are automatically made.
How would this be any different, than playing my char as if he had 40' movement and can do full-round attacks while I move? The only things I can think of are:
- My mount can get attacked
- I have to dismount when stealthing
Can anyone think of anything else? Perhaps I can't use my acrobatics check while mounted, for things like avoiding AOO? What about reflex saves?
I just want to figure out all of the drawbacks before I commit to this kind of play style.
You can use acrobatics to avoid an AoO while mounted but you only negate yours on a success.
Both you and your mount provoke and mounts use their own stats and skills for checks.
The same for saves.
Also there's the problem that when you level up, if you don't have a paladin's special mount or an animal companion your mount is so squishy that it becomes useless.
Mounted combat is better left to paladins, druids or maybe rangers. Oh, and cavaliers and possibly summoners?
You can use acrobatics to avoid an AoO while mounted but you only negate yours on a success.
Both you and your mount provoke and mounts use their own stats and skills for checks.
The same for saves.Also there's the problem that when you level up, if you don't have a paladin's special mount or an animal companion your mount is so squishy that it becomes useless.
Mounted combat is better left to paladins, druids or maybe rangers. Oh, and cavaliers and possibly summoners?
Well, at least for these first couple levels, being able to move 40' and fire while moving is such a good thing...there has to be some other way of keeping this going while I level ;)
Perhaps there are some powerful magical item mounts? Or a way of leveling or pimping out my current mount (barding, etc) I know of the phantasmal steed spell, but that seems a bit squishy too.
Well lets not get too worried here. You can negate an attack each round with Mounted Combat... any one attack including that disintegrate spell...
Beyond that barding is fairly cheap and can be magicked up and the house could use various other gear, like headbands of wisdom, belts (used to hold the saddle on) of dex or con (both!) and the like.
Also you could take the leadership feat to get an advanced template mount, or a more exotic mount later on too.
Beyond that I rarely see mounts get attacked. Usually the villains go after the rider since the mount generally stops being useful once the rider is dead.
Well, at least for these first couple levels, being able to move 40' and fire while moving is such a good thing...there has to be some other way of keeping this going while I level ;)Perhaps there are some powerful magical item mounts? Or a way of leveling or pimping out my current mount (barding, etc) I know of the phantasmal steed spell, but that seems a bit squishy too.
Talk with your DM about the leadership feat(7th level preq) and getting a monster cohort?
edit:
@Abraham: I did not read your post, sorry, I'm almost falling asleep. BTW what is your ninja level by now?
Well, I hope at least the link is useful.
And about mounts being attacked... First, area effects. Second; my players just think the opposite, the riding BBEG becomes less threatening(and mobile) once it's mount is dead.
Well, they all seem like reasonable tradeoffs. Would be pretty sweet to get a brass dragon for a mount @ high levels!
What exactly is an "advance template mount"? Is that just a mid-level mount or is that a specific reference to something?
You can use acrobatics to avoid an AoO while mounted but you only negate yours on a success.
Both you and your mount provoke and mounts use their own stats and skills for checks.
The same for saves.Also there's the problem that when you level up, if you don't have a paladin's special mount or an animal companion your mount is so squishy that it becomes useless.
Mounted combat is better left to paladins, druids or maybe rangers. Oh, and cavaliers and possibly summoners?
I had a fighter do mounted combat, they do it the best anyways with Armor Training when it come to ride checks. The squishing mount problem is only a problem if you don't upgrade your mounts. The other classes that offer companions get that for free as class feature but any class can pay gold or do it themselves with help from certain other classes. It's really not a problem at all.
You can use acrobatics to avoid an AoO while mounted but you only negate yours on a success.
Both you and your mount provoke and mounts use their own stats and skills for checks.
The same for saves.Also there's the problem that when you level up, if you don't have a paladin's special mount or an animal companion your mount is so squishy that it becomes useless.
Mounted combat is better left to paladins, druids or maybe rangers. Oh, and cavaliers and possibly summoners?
The squishing mount problem is only a problem if you don't upgrade your mounts. The classes that offer companions get that for free as class feature but any class can pay gold or do it themselves with help from certain other classes. It's really not a problem at all.
Besides fighters are best at ride with armor training due to reduction in ACP.
And about mounts being attacked... First, area effects. Second; my players just think the opposite, the riding BBEG becomes less threatening(and mobile) once it's mount is dead.
Well the direction of thought on mount directly correlates to who is trying to take them out.
DM's (from my experience) focus almost solely on the rider for the reasons I stated. Players tend to focus on what they can hit... generally this will be the BBEG, but if a mount is causing that to not be possible... they'll focus on the mount.
Links are also very helpful, and don't worry about the ninja effects... I don't have any levels there... it's all time stop and time hop!
*shudders* Damn ninja chronomancers...
And about these upgraded mounts, what's it about Voska?
Just barding, buffing and magic items? Or more likely exotic mounts?
I'm afraid I don't have that much experience in the issue.
you can "upgrade" by buying better animals basically... Advanced template horses, Griffins, Giant Eagles... Advanced Griffins, Advanced Giant Eagles, Lions, Advanced Lions... et al.
Yes they will be expensive and possibly hard to train but a DM that is willing to advance monsters should also be willing to advance mounts too (for more cost of course).
Buying barding is always a good idea. A large Chain Shirt Barding will cost 400 gp but give your mount +4 AC for only -2 on every check. Masterwork Studded Leather Barding is even cheaper and would have no ACP.
Magical Items are an excellent way to keep a mount up to snuff too. Magical Armor, or a horseshoes of the Zypher are great to have. A saddle of Physical Prowess would be a nice way to increase Dex and Con (filling the equivalent of the belt slot on the horse).
It's a matter of looking at what you have available instead of what the normal is.
Well I would certainly get them barding and such. Since I'm ranged, I really don't feel the need to pimp him out too much. I just want to give him a big enough ass that he doesn't get instagibbed all the time.
Is there a reference to these "advanced template mounts" somewhere? My DM would certainly want some direction as to what to allow or not allow. Splat books are, so far, not allowed ;P
One concern my DM brought up was that Paladin's, Rangers, etc have class features that give them a levelable companion so to give me the same opportunity would be unbalanced.
The advanced template is in the Bestiary, it can be applied to any creature, I think.
You wouldn't be having exactly a leveled companion. The stats for such a creature would be independent from your own level. Even if advanced.
As an example there's the trained war horse. It's a normal horse with a limited advanced template; no INT increase. You would only be taking it a step further.
You still have to pay for the exotic mount and it's training. It's money for "consummable"(*) extra features, like permanencying a spell.
It will not be unbalanced.
*[the creature can(and eventually will) die and then you have to pay again]
I can see the advanced template being useful for filling in the gaps in between creature upgrades, but I still don't see a list of mounts per se.
For example, the only reason I know that a Giant Eagle can be used as a mount is because there is a picture of one being rode in the Bestiary. There is no attribute that says "Mountable" or anything. Not to mention I have no idea how much it would cost to buy a trained one.
Then we have a problem of finding a mount that is medium-sized for my char and can be used in dungeon. I'd hate to have to shrink a griffon ;)
Like I said, my DM is pretty busy so he prefers to stick with hard and fast rules that Paizo provides (as opposed to having to figure out the in's and out's of mount costs, including training and such, all on our own)
I understand, playing with this degree of customization adds a great deal of work to a DM.
Not everyone is willing to devote that much work into one player alone.
You could offer to do the dirty work though, and then your DM just has to say Yes/NO.
Hard and fast rules we have discussed already. A class with a companion is the easiest way to get what you want. Have you considered multiclassing?
I can see the advanced template being useful for filling in the gaps in between creature upgrades, but I still don't see a list of mounts per se.
For example, the only reason I know that a Giant Eagle can be used as a mount is because there is a picture of one being rode in the Bestiary. There is no attribute that says "Mountable" or anything. Not to mention I have no idea how much it would cost to buy a trained one.
Then we have a problem of finding a mount that is medium-sized for my char and can be used in dungeon. I'd hate to have to shrink a griffon ;)
Like I said, my DM is pretty busy so he prefers to stick with hard and fast rules that Paizo provides (as opposed to having to figure out the in's and out's of mount costs, including training and such, all on our own)
I don't think Pathfinder has cost for NPC work but there was spot in the 3.5 DMG that had it. So if you don't have animal handling yourself you can pay an NPC to do it. Buying an animal to use as an exotic mount is the only part not list but really that can any price your DM wants to set. But that's the same for anything not listed with a price. The good thing about exotic animals is you don't have to be consistent. It could price X today or another price some other time for the same animal.
A class with a companion is the easiest way to get what you want. Have you considered multiclassing?
We're doing Council of Thieves, which only goes up to lvl 13, so I would be worried that doing so would gimp my character. Dunno if 4 levels of ranger would be worth it (although I am a bard-archer, so it might not be TOO bad...)
Actually, after reading more about the Ranger's Animal Companion...I don't even think this will work because the companion levels as the Ranger levels...the companion itself doesn't level independently.
So it looks like the "Leadership" feat with monster addendum or continually purchasing upgrades is still the way to go.
I hope to be able to pass on the DM hat when we finish the rise of the runelords so I keep potential playable material away from my eyes. I don't want to spoil the surprise.
In short, I haven't read council of thieves.
I don't know if ranger or druid(faster AC progression) would fit, paladin has good mechanical synergy with bard(Cha based), but not too much in the roleplaying sense.
You're right, though. Multiclassing just to get a mount could dilute your character concept and also weaken it.
Being a ranged bard I think that, and that's my personal preference, I would stay pure classed and try to get a wand of Phantom Steed while the DM ponders if allowing Leadership. Just to try it.
The phantom steed maybe is squishy, but scales well enough with levels if taken as a known spell.
Nidho I disagree with the bard/paladin not having role playing synergy:
After all A paladin charging in with a smite on his magical sword and a Battle cry could be very inspiring... and spells like Good Hope, and cure light wounds would help a lawful good character... the added lesser restoration would be nice too from paladin side.
Performance(oratory) would be great for shouting out tactical plans or cheering the team along.
In short I can't see how it wouldn't be a great match up for the paladin.
Yeah, erase that. I can see the sense in a devout bard or a "rockstar" paladin.
When I said that I was stuck in 3.5 mindset mode where bards could not be lawful.
Usually I picture the bard as a scoundrel, but I also can see it as someone that inspires people because he's in love with life. One who enjoys every aspect of existance, one that lives for the thrill of the moment.
On the other hand a paladin lives for it's code, for honor and to serve: A lord, a God or an ideal.
But thinking of it these two achetypes aren't mutually exclusive, at all.
The only requisite is that the character has to be lawful good. Restrictive, yes, but not to make the character unplayable.