This reminds me of when I got started in the industry back in 1987. I started a company called Lion Rampant up in Northfield, Minnesota with Jonathan Tweet and Mark Rein•Hagen. We weren't paying ourselves, so I had to have a full-time job to pay the bills. We actually ran the company out of my living room in my apartment. I would get up at 4am in the morning and get to work at 6am (after a 1 hour drive). I would work until 3pm and then drive the one hour home. I would then work on Lion Rampant until about 11 pm, go to bed for 5 hours, and repeat. Some days I was so exhausted, that I found ways to get a nap in on the job. I know, not cool. But it was exhausting and something I could only do for about a year. So, I feel your pain!
-Lisa
Ha! It's a labor of love, that's for sure, and nothing I've done in my adult, professional life has left me so fulfilled. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I can resign from the day job soon...
Robert
At this point, no, I don't believe Paizo qualifies as a 3PP. They are not supporting 4E, making Pathfinder their sole focus. For the smaller companies, it's kind of strange to think about. Everyone thinks about them as 3PP, and many are simply that, adding supplements that are designed to be setting neutral. But then you have companies like Dreamscarred Press, who I've done a little freelance with. They've produced their own campaign setting (Third Dawn), and any supplements they put out to support it are technically NOT 3rd party. However, most of their products are support for 3.5 (and we're working on updating psionics to Pathfinder), in which case they are a 3PP. So it depends on the line you're looking at from that specific publisher whether or not they're a 3PP.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Hmm, my two C-bills.
1st party publisher People who make the core rules
3rd party publisher People who make supliments for someone else's core rules.
(BTW, what's a 2nd party publisher?)
So Paizo is a 1PP for Pathfinder, their pre-pathfinder RPG stuff was 3PP for 3.x Green Ronin's a 1PP for true 20, but a 3PP for 3.x/Pathfinder/Savage worlds.
Not sure if that's accurate, but that's how I see 'em.
(BTW, what's a 2nd party publisher?)
There's three ways to look at that.
1) They're the satellites or affiliates of the main publisher. Use the Habsro / WotC analogy.
2) You want to put out a game, but you have to go through a publisher to do it on your behalf. Which is prevalent in the RPG world.
3) Print on Demand. Lulu.
Chief Technical Officer
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(BTW, what's a 2nd party publisher?)
As I understand it, the term "third party" originally referred to an entity that added value to a transaction between a seller (the first party) and a customer (the second party).
So, in the case of, say, the OGL, we're most certainly a third party, between WotC and you. In the case of the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License, we're now the first party, while the publishers using it are the third party.
Here is a simple question that I think we forgot to ask, how many of you want OR are planning to start their own RPG company?
Just jumping on this thread after spending a week in bed. (Had surgery last week, all's good and I love being back at the SGG "offices", which is on my laptop at a desk in the living room.)
My path has been a little different I think. When I got laid off from eMachines back in 2001 I got a pretty good severance and used that to start OWC as a d20 company. I did that for a couple of years and then went to work for Upper Deck, running OWC on the side. That's where I met Stan! and when he got laid off from UD, we decided to keep working together and SGG was born. We started doing Cthulhu products, then Savage Worlds, and now Pathfinder books. Day to day is pretty typical: I handle most of the layout and art acquisition, plus the marketing and board posting. Stan writes, designs, and develops, while we keep Owen locked up in a basement in Oklahoma writing Pathfinder material.
The real secret is keeping the primary writer chained in a basement, paid in food and "shelter". :D
Truth be told, SGG is our main gig right now for most of us. We've been shocked at how well the products have been received and deeply humbled. Each of us also freelances for various companies and I do TCG consulting and brand management as well.
If you've got any questions, I'm happy to answer them.
Hyrum.
Just jumping on this thread after spending a week in bed. (Had surgery last week, all's good and I love being back at the SGG "offices", which is on my laptop at a desk in the living room.)
My brother from another mother!!! I hope everything is OK and hope you get better soon.
I've got a question for the other 3PPs here. When there's a discussion on the messageboard about something that you've worked on - that you have in a product already available - what do you do?
I've got a question for the other 3PPs here. When there's a discussion on the messageboard about something that you've worked on - that you have in a product already available - what do you do?
I'm sorry, maybe it's because my coffee has quite kicked in yet, but I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
Edit: If you mean do I swoop into the thread and subtly pimp my product then my answer would be a sheepish "yes."
I've got a question for the other 3PPs here. When there's a discussion on the messageboard about something that you've worked on - that you have in a product already available - what do you do?
I'm sorry, maybe it's because my coffee has quite kicked in yet, but I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
Edit: If you mean do I swoop into the thread and subtly pimp my product then my answer would be a sheepish "yes."
Well, I mean do you read the thread, ignore it, see where it's going, that sort of thing?
I actually find these sorts of threads immensely frustrating, particularly when the inevitable "Oh, that's a pointless idea, just use this, this, and this, and modify it this way." It's like saying "Oh, don't buy a Gallardo Spyder, just buy a Golf, completely replace the suspension and engine and saw the top off of it, and you have essentially the same thing."
I've got a question for the other 3PPs here. When there's a discussion on the messageboard about something that you've worked on - that you have in a product already available - what do you do?
I'm sorry, maybe it's because my coffee has quite kicked in yet, but I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
Edit: If you mean do I swoop into the thread and subtly pimp my product then my answer would be a sheepish "yes."
Well, I mean do you read the thread, ignore it, see where it's going, that sort of thing?
I actually find these sorts of threads immensely frustrating, particularly when the inevitable "Oh, that's a pointless idea, just use this, this, and this, and modify it this way." It's like saying "Oh, don't buy a Gallardo Spyder, just buy a Golf, completely replace the suspension and engine and saw the top off of it, and you have essentially the same thing."
Well, just speaking for Tricky Owlbear, I always read a thread I come across that has greater than average validity to a product we're working on. If I agree with the comments/suggestions for said topic/product, then they will likely find a place in the completed work.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I've got a question for the other 3PPs here. When there's a discussion on the messageboard about something that you've worked on - that you have in a product already available - what do you do?
I'm sorry, maybe it's because my coffee has quite kicked in yet, but I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
Edit: If you mean do I swoop into the thread and subtly pimp my product then my answer would be a sheepish "yes."
Shrug, I've pimped my Arcane Legionary off the Pathfinder DB on various sword and spell blades, so don't feel bad.
Edit: If you mean do I swoop into the thread and subtly pimp my product then my answer would be a sheepish "yes."
I think you should be "pimping" you product when people are asking about it. As with dating, If they are asking about the product that means they are interested. As the business owner you should answer the questions you get to the best of your abilities, but sometime leave thing out. I will add to the mystery and mystique of your company.
I am of the Shamwow, pitchman; if your talking about my product, my company, or something very close to it then I want to stop in and Pitch my book. It would be criminal of me not to promote my products especially to those authors and editors who get paid on or receive bonus royalties.
However I do try to join in the conversation.
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Here is a simple question that I think we forgot to ask, how many of you want OR are planning to start their own RPG company?
Actually a friend and I are currently bouncing around a couple product ideas. We're looking at the PDF option initially for distribution (and having the majority of material probably sticking with this distribution method). This thread has been a boon in our focusing our efforts to getting our products concepts prioritized.
To be quite honest, when I first saw this thread, I was shocked at the timing of it appearing on the boards (the magnitude of the coincidence was pretty much staggering).
I would love to be able to make a living at game design as a 3PP, but would be extremely happy if I could generate even a regular small revenue stream from a hobby I've been following for over 30 years.
And once again, thank you to all the 3PP who are answering everyone's questions.
I think you should be "pimping" you product when people are asking about it. As with dating, If they are asking about the product that means they are interested. As the business owner you should answer the questions you get to the best of your abilities, but sometime leave thing out. I will add to the mystery and mystique of your company.
If I'm getting questions about my products on a first date, it's probably time to get out of there, fast.
Inversion of that question though: How often do you come up with the idea of the century and then realise it's been done a hundred times before?
Inversion of that question though: How often do you come up with the idea of the century and then realise it's been done a hundred times before?
Everything has been done before. You just have to put your own personal spin on it to make it different.
Inversion of that question though: How often do you come up with the idea of the century and then realise it's been done a hundred times before?Everything has been done before. You just have to put your own personal spin on it to make it different.
I'm not sure about this. They may say, "There's nothing new under the sun," but I think there's always something else that can be done which has not been done before. Don't underestimate the staggering amount of creativity in our hobby.
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I'm not sure about this. They may say, "There's nothing new under the sun," but I think there's always something else that can be done which has not been done before. Don't underestimate the staggering amount of creativity in our hobby.Inversion of that question though: How often do you come up with the idea of the century and then realise it's been done a hundred times before?Everything has been done before. You just have to put your own personal spin on it to make it different.
I think what Louis means that ideas like class books, campaign settings, magic spells, etc., have already been done. However, each person (heck, every person!) has their own unique take on a particular aspect of said project. Look, for example, the number of ways the "witch" has been done by publishers nevermind gamers.
Inversion of that question though: How often do you come up with the idea of the century and then realise it's been done a hundred times before?Everything has been done before. You just have to put your own personal spin on it to make it different.
Do you ever find that intimidating though? I suppose I'm asking if you often find yourself second-guessing yourself on the innovation bar or is it more important just to go full steam ahead based on what you're aware of?
Well, you know, we had a lot of that going on with Paths of Power: you can't have gamed for very long at all without knowing someone who has tried to homebrew a samurai class, for example, or at least followed the trope even if the mechanics weren't great. Anti-Paladins and Witches have shown in earlier renditions of the game. But in a way, that was an asset - the concept is already familiar and fitting in the milieu, and players want it.
My advice would be to develop make it your own - take an idea and give it your own concept, make it something that satisfies the ideal in a unique way.
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Here is a simple question that I think we forgot to ask, how many of you want OR are planning to start their own RPG company?
I would love to. I've been wanting to get into that sort of thing for some time. But between the day job, wife and soon-to-be-two small children, haven't had the time.
I do have a website or two with stuff I've done on them (see my profile for a URL), and managed to squeak into Wayfinder #2. So, maybe, someday... 8^) <puts away horn>
Speaking of which, from what I've seen a bunch of the people in this thread are or have been freelancers, do you have any advice for getting involved in rpg freelance work?
When I jumped into the business, the d20 movement was just getting underway (2001). Today, opportunities aren't quite as virulent but I think they're still out there. Start with a polished writing sample of something you've done (with fluff and mechanics, whether or not it's been published). This way you'll have something to show to a publisher besides grandiose ideas. 9/10th of being a good freelancer is being able to follow through on an assignment. I've never done it but I've heard time and time again of writers who drop the ball for some reason or another. Don't do this. Ever.
As for where to go to find work, hanging out in this forum probably isn't a bad idea. If you're looking to write some Pathfinder material then you'll know which 3PP is doing what and be able to query them with an idea (which is nothing more than emailing them). Check their website first for submission guidelines. If you find none and want to work with that company anyway, a query email won't hurt anything.
For other rpg work, try rpg.net and their Freelancing forum to keep watch for open calls. Not sure if ENWorld has a specific forum for this anymore but that's a good site to keep an eye on too.
Always remember to be professional in any exchange with a publisher. Get to know a little about their company and/or products before sending a submission (be it an idea or completed product).
That's all off the top of my head. Heck, if you (or anyone else) is interested, Tricky Owlbear is looking for more writers to fill out our Behind the Monsters line. You can download the free "Owlbear" pdf to see if it's something you're interested in. You can reach me at: bret (dot) boyd (at) trickyowlbear (dot) com.
(and because I haven't mentioned it yet...)
Bret Boyd
President
Tricky Owlbear Publishing, Inc.
Always remember to be professional in any exchange with a publisher. Get to know a little about their company and/or products before sending a submission (be it an idea or completed product).
Thanks, Bret. I've been considering something like this for some time :)
Working on a product but debating the best method of distribution. Considering something completely different from the norm but not sure yet. May just give it away.
Here is a simple question that I think we forgot to ask, how many of you want OR are planning to start their own RPG company?Well, let me put it this way.
I live at home with my family presently, and spend my hours mostly doing three things. Physical Training, Chores, and RPG stuff (primarily using this forum, but I also run campaigns, and create rpg's to pass the time and expand my creative mojo.)
Now, I would do just about anything to get into the industry, but I'm not really looking to start off with my own company, it just doesn't feel like the right way to start.
What I would LOVE to do, is to put all this time I have to use working for an established company, either freelancing or as a specific employee.
Speaking of which, from what I've seen a bunch of the people in this thread are or have been freelancers, do you have any advice for getting involved in rpg freelance work?
This illustrates the real crux of the matter in my opinion. The barrier to entry is quite low to get started publishing a product now days. A PDF can be put together with free software using stock art for a few bucks. My first PDF cost me ten bucks to publish. But because the bar is so low to get started lots of people equate having a great idea for a product/RPG/line with the need to start their own company to bring it to market. While there is certainly nothing wrong with that, I think what Louis has pointed out is that there are companies (like LPJDesign) that are willing to work with a creator to get their product "out there" rather than have a bunch of small RPG publishing companies with two or three products each in publication.
I think the real question anyone thinking of publishing RPG material needs to ask themselves is: Do they want to be a Publisher, or to have their ideas Published. There is a very distinct difference between the two.
As to the question about freelancing I agree with what has been said so far and would add this: If you have an idea for a line or product that you want to do, by all means pitch that to a publisher. If someone had come to me and asked if I wanted to publish a series like "Behind the Spells" I'd be all over it. So to with current freelancers I work with. I usually assign them projects and after I work with them I'm happy to discuss publishing their "pet" project they are itching to work on. It makes them far more motivated working on their own idea than a project assigned by someone else.
My two cents.
-Mark Cathro
Owner/Publisher
Skortched Urf' Studios
This illustrates the real crux of the matter in my opinion. The barrier to entry is quite low to get started publishing a product now days. A PDF can be put together with free software using stock art for a few bucks. My first PDF cost me ten bucks to publish.
And this is why I am a big fan of Mark and Skortched Urf' Studios. He jumped in with both feet and hasn't looked back. That attitude will get you farther than you think.
But because the bar is so low to get started lots of people equate having a great idea for a product/RPG/line with the need to start their own company to bring it to market. While there is certainly nothing wrong with that, I think what Louis has pointed out is that there are companies (like LPJDesign) that are willing to work with a creator to get their product "out there" rather than have a bunch of small RPG publishing companies with two or three products each in publication.
I will be blunt about this, it is better for the market to have a few large players with a lot of small imprints then ten thousand of little imprints. If you are a small guy, find a way to hook up with a bigger guy and start making some money. Leave the publishing headaches to some guy like me.
I think the real question anyone thinking of publishing RPG material needs to ask themselves is: Do they want to be a Publisher, or to have their ideas Published. There is a very distinct difference between the two.
AMEN!!!! You really have to know this difference if you really want to make a product.
I think the real question anyone thinking of publishing RPG material needs to ask themselves is: Do they want to be a Publisher, or to have their ideas Published. There is a very distinct difference between the two.
Agreed.
And if you want a company to start the ball rolling with on a project, I can personally recommend Skortched Urf'. I freelanced a couple times for Mark and the experience was professional and efficient and he's a friendly, stand-up guy to boot. (And thanks for the "Behind the Spells" love!)
Ah, I actually have a half decent question, inspired by the modern thread.
Owen talked about a meeting to lay down design goals to use as a blueprint for a project, so...
How specific do you get on the conceptual level? Or maybe you just shoot from the hip?
How far have you strayed from core concepts during the coarse of a project?
Have there ever been any projects you've scrapped because they went too far off track from what you initially planned?
...ok, question(s).
How specific do you get on the conceptual level? Or maybe you just shoot from the hip?
For a setting I come up with four or five concepts and build the world around that. For smaller projects it is on a single concept, like A D20 Modern proejct for disease for example.
How far have you strayed from core concepts during the coarse of a project?
The farthest I have was on NeoExodus: A House Divided which initally was a D20 fantasy game specifally for women (like the Blue Rose).
Have there ever been any projects you've scrapped because they went too far off track from what you initially planned?
Oh yea! A Place Beyond Hell (Undead Nazi Elves) which parts of it became Obsidian Twilight. Sanctuary which was to be the west coast version of Haven: City of Violence. My Alien/Aliens movie inspired D20 Future setting call D.N.A. I think every publisher has a cool idea scapped story.
Always remember to be professional in any exchange with a publisher. Get to know a little about their company and/or products before sending a submission (be it an idea or completed product).
This is so huge. It's important to keep in mind that even if you know the main people at the publisher, even if you game with them, just saying, "I'd really like to write for you" probably won't get you an offer...
Not saying anyone here is doing that, just saying I've had it happen to us, several times, by several people.
Robert Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
Researching a company and it's products is good, but what do you do with that knowledge?
For one thing, you then won't query that company for a product they've already done. :) Okay, you were asking Robert so I'll let him address this further.
For all of you, is it more typical for freelancers to propose products, or for you to hire freelancers for products your currently working on?
For me, it's been a little of both. As I mentioned above, I would love for freelancers to do some "Behind the Monsters" pdfs. Three other writers have so far contributed to the line. But then late last year I had a proposal from two freelancers for a sizeable monster book for PF (not yet announced but well underway) which I took them up on because I didn't have anything like that in the pipeline.
I am a bit different when it comes to freelancers. I have a core group of freelancers and editors from our time producing Arcana Evolved Projects (Bill Collins, Soren K. Thustrup, Frank Carr, Clay Fliescher etc..)
Patronage Projects allow me to choose someone like Clinton J. Boomer or Steve Kenson and let them choose the project they want to do, with their fans helping to pay the premium rate I normally could not afford.
The patronage projects also give me a chance to look at peoples input, skill activity level, ability ect.
For example the is how the ENnie award winning author Ben McFarland (Tales of Zobeck) came to my attention was through his ideas on Dreamburning Rules for Coliseum Morpheuon.
On the idea of know your publisher, I am not going to accept a oriental themed, dream themed, Virtual Tabletop, Superhero Rpg or Adventure Path pitch.
Steve Russell
Rite Publsihing
So Hunter, what sort of a proposal would you suggest? Researching a company and it's products is good, but what do you do with that knowledge?
For all of you, is it more typical for freelancers to propose products, or for you to hire freelancers for products your currently working on?
For me, it's a mix, but leaning towards hiring specific individuals. We started out working with a couple of folks - Sean O'Connor and Katheryn Bauer - we had known for years and who, while unpublished before hand, produced good material. Those two are pretty much are "staff" even though both are technically freelancers and not our employees.
For Paths of Power, I had come across another unpublished individual whose homebrew work I liked - Patricia Willenborg - so I approached her about contributing significant material that book.
But for our upcoming Strategists & Tacticians, we were approached by Ryan Costello, and thought it a worthy project so we took it on.
Robert
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
So, would you guys say that, generally speaking, for a freelancer to get on your list of potentials, he needs to propose and complete a project through your company?
I'm seeing a great deal of presentation of using established freelancers, and a fair amount taking on proposals, but I really am not seeing open project calls for freelancers to submit to be tested or whatnot.
I'll admit, the whole freelance thing sounds exciting and would be an interesting experience, but so too would earning an 'official' spot on an existing publishiing company, not unlike those two freelancers Robert mentioned.
For me, you just need to get on my radar somehow, whether it's by being published by someone else, or by me seeing your material (published or not) and liking it enough to approach you, or by you being recommended by a third party.
That said, we're a small outfit, with a small budget, and a schedule of releases set for the next several months already.
Robert
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
Do they want to be a Publisher, or to have their ideas Published.
Ooh, that's a tricky question for me. Ultimately, I just want to get my stuff published. The problem is that I want to get my stuff published... not just some stuff I did for someone else. And I want to have control over context and format and various other prima donna concerns that are likely to turn a publisher off. :)
This is not to say I can't be a team player and just pump out what's asked for; but for the dollar values I'm seeing bandied about, I don't want to. There wouldn't be enough fun in it, and I can make much more money doing other things. I'd absolutely love to work in this industry, but if I still need a day job, it has to be attractive in other ways.
All of that is compounded by the fact that I tend to work a project from start to finish, not just as "a writer." I compulsively do my own copy editing, and I spend as much (or more) time revisiting and refining concepts and mechanics as I do actually putting the words down. I'm comfortable (and capable) doing layout, and if someone's got to chop my text down to fit the available space, having it be me is a benefit. Plus I've got a good artist in-house (literally). And I'm not scared of inventory management, or the telephone. I guess what it comes down to is that while "being a publisher" isn't my primary goal, it feels like the option that best fits my quirks and proclivities. The best combination of "getting to do what I want" and "not burning out on the other things I have to do."
So unless I break top 8 in Superstar and start getting more attractive offers, chances are reasonably good that you'll see me starting my own operation. But I have to say, I totally agree that having a million tiny players is bad for everyone. If I do jump into the fray, I'll be looking for extra talent. And I'll probably offer the same sort of terms I'm not personally willing to accept, because I think I'm an oddity in that regard. :) It's not bad money for writers who, unlike me, are happy to just write and don't spend heaps of extra time editing and refining and doing various things that a company like Paizo has whole separate departments for!
Something else that people have to understand if they are going to do this as a business, you need have your product look a certain way also. The more professional the product looks the more sale you will get. Art AND graphic design are the two areas of the business that I find lacking for most start-ups. For me, I have the advange of being a graphic designer for nearly 20 years. The look and graphic design of you game and company IS IMPORTANT!!!! Don't skimp on this.
I will be blunt about this, it is better for the market to have a few large players with a lot of small imprints then ten thousand of little imprints. If you are a small guy, find a way to hook up with a bigger guy and start making some money. Leave the publishing headaches to some guy like me.
I agree with Louis here. One of the best features OBS/RPGNow/DriveThru has ever implemented was the royalty tools to help facilitate this. Now a larger publisher can take on a smaller imprint, plug the correct % into the OBS system and whenever a product is sold OBS sends the correct amount of payment to the right person.
Chris Field started his Otherverse Games imprint through Skortched Urf' Studios. Chris decides what he wants to publish, and at first I helped with the layout but now he does all his own stuff. (We collaborate on some projects where I help with the art budget, for example.) I handle the "Publisher" aspect of it; the marketing, press releases, posting to the sites etc. and take a small cut but Chris keeps most of the money. It has worked very well for us I think. (I don't want to speak for Chris, but I think he would agree.)
So today I think the system for setting up smaller imprints or partnerships has become much easier. Most of the hassle was dealing with the accounting anyway, and now if you stick with OBS they can do all that work for you. With over 500 "Publishers" listed on OBS I am sure there is room for partnership and consolidation.
Oh, and thanks for the kind words Louis and Bret; the checks in the mail! :-)
Now a larger publisher can take on a smaller imprint, plug the correct % into the OBS system and whenever a product is sold OBS sends the correct amount of payment to the right person.
Now that's an option I hadn't realized was present! I thought imprints were mainly done for marketing reasons, to divide product lines by target audience. Using them to facilitate independent management... that's interesting. That would be absolutely optimal for me. Who does this? Scorched Urf' apparently, anyone else? Would the proper thing be to just polish up a print-ready file and ask around?
Now a larger publisher can take on a smaller imprint, plug the correct % into the OBS system and whenever a product is sold OBS sends the correct amount of payment to the right person.Now that's an option I hadn't realized was present! I thought imprints were mainly done for marketing reasons, to divide product lines by target audience. Using them to facilitate independent management... that's interesting. That would be absolutely optimal for me. Who does this? Scorched Urf' apparently, anyone else? Would the proper thing be to just polish up a print-ready file and ask around?
No only do I do this with Otherverse Games, Louis even has a handful of products I publish under my Dept.7 D20 Modern line because they were a "good fit" for what he was doing so he farmed them out to me. He matched the design elements I used for the line but did everything himself. (Louis owns the D7 Tech Update: Cybernetics I put out, and a few Adv. classes. You have to check out the cover on the cybernetics book; Awesome!)
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=23341&it=1
Which brings up another related point; if one publisher has a line of products that is in the dominant position it is now possible for other publishers to put out product through that publisher for the dominant or popular line and capitalize on the "Brand Recognition" of the overall line. Chris Field and Louis both have D20 Modern Advanced classes published through Skortched Urf' Studios but where they get most of the money from sales, for example.
Until now it has been more of a one or two product thing, but I think the idea could be expanded upon if publishers wished to team up and work together. So if we all agree that publisher X has the best brand of a particular product; if he opened the line up to other publishers to put product into it using the same graphic/trade dress then that would make the overall line that much more of a market leader. I can envision a consensus among several smaller publishers to cross-promote a particular setting or line of products among different publishers this way.
I don't see Bret opening up his Behind the Spells line due to the very specific nature of the line, but for something more broad like D20 Modern Advanced Classes, Pathfinder Prestige Classes, Magic item or spell compilations I could see it becoming a win-win situation. They get a product in with a (presumably) larger publisher or at least a higher profile line, and the publisher gets an expanded overall line and a slice of the sales. Conversely, allowing a publisher into "your" line could have some down-sides if they put half-@ssed products with typos galore in there; that might bring down the value of a given line.
Let me ask, if you were in the market for a Prestige Class created by a third party publisher; would you rather surf a couple dozen publishers or just one where you know you could find all the best classes? I guess that's the idea I am trying to get across. I don't think we are "there" yet but I can see us heading in that direction.
And yes, give me a ring if anyone is interested in joining forces as an imprint or you have a product that might fit into a line we're producing.
Conversely, do you have a line you'd be willing to open up to other publishers?
My two cents.
-Mark Cathro
Owner/Publisher
Skortched Urf' Studios
Let me ask, if you were in the market for a Prestige Class created by a third party publisher; would you rather surf a couple dozen publishers or just one where you know you could find all the best classes? I guess that's the idea I am trying to get across. I don't think we are "there" yet but I can see us heading in that direction.
I'm completely with you on this concept, and now that I see how you intend to pull it off, I'm rather impressed. I'm not quite ready yet, but expect contact from me within the next month or two.