Question - Seeker of Secrets introduces different types of Ioun Stones with flawed, cracked, etc. My two questions are:
1) Do multiple types of the ioun stones work, if different types (normal, flawed, cracked)? Can you have a normal and flawed of the same shape and color work together?
2) Some ioun stones specify they apply to one specific check, or have two options of effect, chosen by the crafter when the ioun stone is made. Can you own multiple of those stones and have them effect you, as long as they are different effects for each one?
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I have another question relating to this:
If a stone is burned out, does it retain its resonant qualities? I have a hard time figuring out why a dull grey ioun stone is worth 25 gp just to be a target for a spell.
1) I'd think that they wouldn't stack, the highest would be used, since it is the same type of bonus from the same type of item.
2) I don't see why they wouldn't work together.
If it's a type of stone that would ordinarily stack, yes. Like a +2 Int and a +1 Int ioun stone.
A dull grey ioun stone has always cost 25 gp. It is a magical item that floats around your head after all. You can cast continual flame on it and have a hands free torch. There's a couple other useful spells to cast on it too.
1) Do multiple types of the ioun stones work, if different types (normal, flawed, cracked)? Can you have a normal and flawed of the same shape and color work together?
Yes, though normal stacking rules apply. Thus, you can use a purple nurple ioun stone that gives a +5 resistance bonus to saves vs. cold at the same time you use a cracked purple nurple ioun stone that gives a +1 resistance bonus to saves vs. cold, but because they're both resistance bonuses, they don't stack. (You'll note that in almost every case, the bonuses ioun stones give are typed bonuses, so the stacking rule will prevent you from doing too much with the same type.)
Of course, there are exceptions to the stacking rules (crimson spheres have their own rule for stacking even though they're typed bonuses, for example).
2) Some ioun stones specify they apply to one specific check, or have two options of effect, chosen by the crafter when the ioun stone is made. Can you own multiple of those stones and have them effect you, as long as they are different effects for each one?
Yes, you can. :)
If a stone is burned out, does it retain its resonant qualities?
As there's a dull gray stone with resonant powers using Method 1, yes. If a non-burned out stone has a resonant power and THEN burns out, it's probably simplest to say it keeps that resonant power, rather than switching to the default power for dull gray stones (if you're using Method 1) or rerolling to see what power it now has (if using Method 2).
I have a hard time figuring out why a dull grey ioun stone is worth 25 gp just to be a target for a spell.
Because a stone that always magically flies around your head makes you look like a badass, and that's a steal at 25 gp. ;) But yes, they can have resonant powers when used with a wayfinder. :)
I really like how you guys have opened ioun stones up to lower level characters.
I do have an ioun stone related question though.
Is there an actual mathematical formula for how the price of a pale green prism ioun stone is determined? Or is this one of those items that is just that expensive because.
I had a player who was looking at it and wondered how much it would cost if it didn't have +1 to attack or +1 to ability checks. That train of thought.
I really like how you guys have opened ioun stones up to lower level characters.
That was the plan. ;)
Is there an actual mathematical formula for how the price of a pale green prism ioun stone is determined? Or is this one of those items that is just that expensive because.
Here's probably how the costing worked out:
+1 competence bonus on attack rolls, saves, skill checks, and ability checks: 30,000 gpA +1 enh bonus to a weapon is 2000.
+1 resistance on all saves is 1000.
Skill and ability checks mean almost the same thing, the language is just like that so you don't get the Str bonus to Climb and Swim but not to bashing doors or combat maneuvers. So that's like a bunch of individual +1 skill bonuses. Now, there are over 30 skills, and a +1 skill bonus is 1000, so in theory that would be over 30,000 gp right there. However, most people aren't going to get utility out of more than about 10 of those skills, so let's just say that's 10,000 gp.
Slotless items don't have a cost multiplier for multiple abilities, so we just add them together to get 13,000 gp.
Slotless items are double the cost of slotted items, so that cost becomes 26,000.
The remainder is probably from the attack bonus applying to ALL attacks rather than to just one weapon (in fact, a second +1 enhancement bonus is 2000x2 = 4000, which brings us to a total of 30,00).
That break down helps a lot. I'm always curious how they end up with final prices on items, especially when you want to make an item with just 1 specific ability when it has 7 different abilities.
I know this is off-topic but it's a rather small question to start a new thread for. The adventures satchel in the new gear section. If you leave the pocket things open is it a free or move action to retrieve an item from them?
If it's a free action then it would be rather useful for the current design of Alchemists and their bombs. (referencing the move action to retrieve the bomb, move to activate it, and standard action to throw it.)
and a +1 skill bonus is 1000
+1 to a skill is only 100, as the cost is bonus squared x 100gp.
I think the pale green's price was more an estimation, since it's a lot of special cases:
+1 competence bonus to attack rolls: There's no real equivalent: Enhancement to weapons is always attack and damage, but only for one weapon, not all attacks. And this bonus stacks with the usual bonuses (strength, enhancement to strength, enhancement to weapon). The closest thing I see are lesser bracers of archery, which grant a +1 competence bonus to ranged attacks, and cost 5000. Slotless, they'd be 10000! And this gives you melee attacks, too, you might argue that is twice as good, making this worth 20.000 alone.
+1 competence bonus to saves is easier: A non-resistance bonus to saves is bonus squared x 2000, so this part costs 2000, 4000 slotless.
+1 competence bonus to skill checks and ability checks. Yes, this one's hard, since it's so many different skills and checks, but not everyone will find everything useful - and some of these bonuses will not even do anything fore you, as there are skills that cannot be used untrained. Moreover, if you have anything else that grants you a competence bonus to a skill, you won't get this bonus, either. All in all, the package deal might be likened to 10 +1 skill bonuses or something like that. That +1 bonus is 100 gp, or 200 gp for slotless, netting us another 2000gp slotless.
All in all, that would be 26000 together. 30000 seems a nice, round number, though.
Another way to look at it is the stone of good luck, which is slotless, too, and grants a +1 luck bonus on saves, ability checks, and skill checks. I.e. everything except attack rolls (and it's a different bonus type, so the two will even stack). It would seem the attack bonus is only worth 10000 (5000 in a slot) to this, but we should not forget that the +1 luck bonus on skills will stack with items like boots of elvenkind), so maybe the skill bonus part weighed in more here.
That break down helps a lot. I'm always curious how they end up with final prices on items, especially when you want to make an item with just 1 specific ability when it has 7 different abilities.
Well, there are the charts, but often you have to make judgement calls. The more "exotic" the item and its ability or abilities, the less use you get out of the charts, and even with the charts, some combinations are worth more (or less) than the charts suggest, there's many thumbs (with attached rules) involved.
+1 to a skill is only 100, as the cost is bonus squared x 100gp.
Heh, that'll teach me to try and price a magic item in between episodes of BSG while painting minis....
Kaeyoss's estimate is pretty good. Mind you, the cost of the item was less in 3.0, and the cost of a skill bonus item was less in 3.0, so they probably took that increase into account when adjusting the price of the stone.
So there are estimates involved, and 30,000 is a nice round number for a non-stacking item that is basically "+1 to everything."
