OK, so we have made the switch to 4th ed, even though it may have cost me a couple of players... and now I'm thinking on what setting to play.
I kinda like the "core setting", but it is vastly undetailed for me.
I also have the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, but think WoTC really ruined that setting. Besides, I don't think they will do many sourcebooks for it, and it will probably be mostly crunch anyway.
I love Golarion, and would love even more to support Paizo (feeling kind of bad for choosing 4th ed over Pathfinder..). What are the (if any) problems of running 4th ed in Golarion?
1. Races. I don't want to mess with the world, so there will be no Dragonborn. Tieflings are probably not uncommon, thanks to Cheliax consorting with demons. The difference between Eladrin and Elves will probably work itself out. Eladrin are high elves, elves are wood elves.
2. Point of Light. Golarion is probably not a Point of Light-campaign per se, even if several remote areas could be described as such. But I don't see this as a problem, really.
3. Gods need to have their alignments changed to match the new system, but this is also a small task.
4. Cosmology. I will retain the Golarion cosmology. I wouldn't think it vital to retain all that Shadowfell/Feywild nonsense?
Anything else?
I've put in a little work on this sort of thing. First, I really recommend avoiding telling your players that they cannot play certain races (like Dragonborn). The amount of work needed to insert them into the world is minimal, Golarion certainly has room for them, and restricting it might shut down an otherwise great character concept your player has.
You might find the following resources helpful:
Playing Dragonborn in Pathfinder - this short article suggests a few ways for you to incorporate Dragonborn into Golarion without disrupting the setting.
Playing Revenants in Pathfinder - this article should help reconcile the differences between the revenant monster and the Revenant player race presented in D&D Insider.
4th Edition Divine Domains in Golarion - here you'll find a list of the most common player deities in Golarion, along with their suggested 4th Edition domains.
4th Edition Pathfinder Character Elements - this document contains new channel divinity feats for each of the most common player deities in Golarion, among other things. Credit to NChance for the original divinity powers.
Wow, those articles were really helpful. I'll definetely bookmark them and use them as inspiration if someone decides to play a Dragonborn (and if we end up playing Golarion).
1. Races. 4. Cosmology.
These are the main problems/issues I've encountered. 4E & Golarion differ in their attitudes toward the "monstrous" races, and also in the rarity of non-humans outside of race-specific homelands. So you've got to decide where on the spectrum your version of the setting would fall (this can vary depending on where in the world you set it, of course).
As for cosmology, I've found no problem equating the First World with the Feywild, and the Shadowfell with Golarion's version of the Underdark (detailed a lot in the Second Darkness AP). YMMV of course, and there's nothing saying you couldn't just keep the flavor/origins and ignore the labels.
These are the main problems/issues I've encountered. 4E & Golarion differ in their attitudes toward the "monstrous" races, and also in the rarity of non-humans outside of race-specific homelands. So you've got to decide where on the spectrum your version of the setting would fall (this can vary depending on where in the world you set it, of course).
Would you care to elaborate on this? I'm running a 4E Golarion game and it seems to me that the differences are fairly minimal, but maybe I'm not seeing what you're seeing.
As for cosmology, I've found no problem equating the First World with the Feywild, and the Shadowfell with Golarion's version of the Underdark (detailed a lot in the Second Darkness AP). YMMV of course, and there's nothing saying you couldn't just keep the flavor/origins and ignore the labels.
Nothing about 4E requires you to stick with the standard 4E cosmology (with the possible exception of the Feywild/Eladrin connection), so you can easily use the default Golarion cosmology IMO. In my game, I'm looking at some kind of hybrid between the two because I like the Feywild/Shadowfell parts of 4E's cosmology, but YMMV.
4E & Golarion differ in their attitudes toward the "monstrous" races, and also in the rarity of non-humans outside of race-specific homelands.Would you care to elaborate on this? I'm running a 4E Golarion game and it seems to me that the differences are fairly minimal, but maybe I'm not seeing what you're seeing.
Well, Golarion dwarves and elves seem to mostly be found/mentioned in the vicinity of their homeland mountain ranges or forests (respectively), or in defined compounds within trading centers (cities, towns on trade routes). (IIRC from the Campaign Setting & the Elves of Golarion booklet) The 4E PHB description implies that while dwarves & elves have homelands, they do mix in other settlements, and are less rare/unusual than their Golarion counterparts.
Newly-promoted-to-core (but not proprietary) 4E races like eladrin, tieflings, and drow are pretty rare on Golarion-as-written, and are generally considered untrustworthy/mysterious/evil if known of at all. I don't think dragonborn exist at all on Golarion (never read mention of them). I've tried to avoid dragonborn entirely at my table, even when I've found a home for genasi and warforged (arcane-created imperial soldier-races from Kelesh & Tian Xia respectively, but unusual outside of those regions & Absalom).
Adventurers/PCs are always more cosmopolitan than the average rube, so maybe your players take everybody in stride, but even so, I think there's definitely a different human to non-human ratio assumed on Golarion than in the various 4E settings/descriptions.
Nothing about 4E requires you to stick with the standard 4E cosmology (with the possible exception of the Feywild/Eladrin connection), so you can easily use the default Golarion cosmology IMO. In my game, I'm looking at some kind of hybrid between the two because I like the Feywild/Shadowfell parts of 4E's cosmology, but YMMV.
I agree, you can pretty much shape the cosmology to suit your purposes. However, depending on your game, the First World and the Cataclysm kind of key directly into the backgrounds/mysteries all of the elf-derived races (elves, eladrin, drow - I have a pretty nifty 4E/Golarion hybrid explanation for them, if you're interested) as well as gnomes, dwarves, and various gods/cosmic horrors.
I think the flexibility is there to hybridize the 4E "default" cosmology to any setting. You can chuck it and go with a native cosmology, but it probably saves some DM headaches or hand-waving later on if you have some idea of how the major 4E concepts *might* fit in your universe.
Well, Golarion dwarves and elves seem to mostly be found/mentioned in the vicinity of their homeland mountain ranges or forests (respectively), or in defined compounds within trading centers (cities, towns on trade routes). (IIRC from the Campaign Setting & the Elves of Golarion booklet) The 4E PHB description implies that while dwarves & elves have homelands, they do mix in other settlements, and are less rare/unusual than their Golarion counterparts.
Newly-promoted-to-core (but not proprietary) 4E races like eladrin, tieflings, and drow are pretty rare on Golarion-as-written, and are generally considered untrustworthy/mysterious/evil if known of at all. I don't think dragonborn exist at all on Golarion (never read mention of them). I've tried to avoid dragonborn entirely at my table, even when I've found a home for genasi and warforged (arcane-created imperial soldier-races from Kelesh & Tian Xia respectively, but unusual outside of those regions & Absalom).
Adventurers/PCs are always more cosmopolitan than the average rube, so maybe your players take everybody in stride, but even so, I think there's definitely a different human to non-human ratio assumed on Golarion than in the various 4E settings/descriptions.
With respect to the "standard" non-human races (dwarves, elves, gnomes), I concede that there are issues with the rarity of these races outside of their "traditional" areas, but it seems to me that this isn't necessarily exclusive to 4E as any 3.x/PF player of one of these races would also face similar issues. Perhaps 4E magnifies this due to the (anecdotally) higher prevelance of non-human PCs over previous editions. I think the explanation that adventurers/PCs are more cosmopolitan/diverse than the average population helps smooth over a lot potential issues in the area however.
I agree that the other 4e PHB races (eladrin, tieflings, and dragonborn) can be a bit harder to fit into Golarian, and dragonborn especially may require a lot more work than either of the other two races. Once you start adding in the additional races from PHB2, FR, Eberron, and other WotC sources I can easily imagine a poor DM getting overwhelmed trying to find a place for all of them in their version of Golarion. The approach I have taken with my campaign is to automatically allow races from the 4E PHB (we started before PHB2 was released) and races that were present in the 3.5 PHB (gnomes, half-orcs) as soon as mechanics for them were available. Any other race is subject to DM-approval, and my players understand that this is not for mechanical/balance reasons, but a matter of whether they can be made to fit within the game's setting.
So far this approach has worked for me as, after initially working out how eladrin, tieflings, and dragonborn fit within Golarion, I only need to do any work when a player asks for a race outside of this list. So far, I've only had the one request (for a drow PC), and in that case the player came up with a compelling back story that was laden with potential story hooks, so I was more than happy to approve it.
I agree, you can pretty much shape the cosmology to suit your purposes. However, depending on your game, the First World and the Cataclysm kind of key directly into the backgrounds/mysteries all of the elf-derived races (elves, eladrin, drow - I have a pretty nifty 4E/Golarion hybrid explanation for them, if you're interested) as well as gnomes, dwarves, and various gods/cosmic horrors.
I would definitely be interested in seeing what you have come up with. I'm still trying to nail down the cosmology in my game although it may be a while before it becomes directly relevant to my players.
With respect to the "standard" non-human races (dwarves, elves, gnomes), I concede that there are issues with the rarity of these races outside of their "traditional" areas, but it seems to me that this isn't necessarily exclusive to 4E as any 3.x/PF player of one of these races would also face similar issues. Perhaps 4E magnifies this due to the (anecdotally) higher prevelance of non-human PCs over previous editions. I think the explanation that adventurers/PCs are more cosmopolitan/diverse than the average population helps smooth over a lot potential issues in the area however.
The timing of the releases of Pathfinder setting info & 4E (and the OP) sets up the comparison - certainly 3.x had its own difficulties cross-pollinating races across different settings. I suspect the relatively greater appeal of non-traditional PC races in 4E is due to the removal of level adjustment/hit dice/spell resistance as mechanical considerations. Any race can be made playable, for good or ill, constrained only by the setting & the GM.
I would definitely be interested in seeing what you have come up with. I'm still trying to nail down the cosmology in my game although it may be a while before it becomes directly relevant to my players.I agree, you can pretty much shape the cosmology to suit your purposes. However, depending on your game, the First World and the Cataclysm kind of key directly into the backgrounds/mysteries all of the elf-derived races (elves, eladrin, drow - I have a pretty nifty 4E/Golarion hybrid explanation for them, if you're interested) as well as gnomes, dwarves, and various gods/cosmic horrors.
I have a personal love of triplets as a narrative & graphical concept (3 Fates, 3 Witches, 3 stages of man, triptychs, etc.), and I wanted to keep the parallel of the First World and the Feywild. So in my homebrew-Golarion history, when faced with the Cataclysm of First Darkness, the proto-elves violently disagreed on how best to deal with the situation.
The majority opted to leave Golarion entirely and return to the Feywild/First World, while a determined minority opted to weather out the catastrophe, using their magic to forge a new life underground (drow). After a comparatively short while, a group of those who had left Golarion chose to return and restore their cities/kingdoms, only to find various nasty things (and humans!) had largely claimed whatever wasn't destroyed (elves/Mierani Forest elves). Much more recently, by Golarion reckoning, a small ambassadorial mission of those who remained in the First World arrive, hopefully for diplomatic purposes (eladrin/Mordant Spire elves).
Alternatively, you can go for a darker interpretation. In this version, the drow were the underclass of a strict social hierarchy, and were so little thought of that they were left behind when the portals were used. They did not have the greater magics that enabled their brethren to leave, and thus were forced to eke out a life underground, retaining the haughtiness of their former masters, but gaining newfound strength/power in their exile.
Similarly, the elves were purposely modified to be more human-seeming (shorter lifespans, hardier bodies, more "normal" appearance) and sent back to Golarion as an advance infiltration and recovery group ahead of a larger invasion/restoration force. The handful of eladrin that we see now on Golarion are either here to observe and report back why the elves have not made more progress, (maybe the elves have "gone native") or are the leading edge of the invasion force, with nefarious schemes of their own.
Second Darkness had an explanation for the elf-drow connection that I couldn't quite swallow, but I did like the idea that magic and fey nature made such creatures susceptible to ridiculously fast/pronounced versions of normal evolution (especially if they purposely shaped their development to suit hostile environments - advanced polymorphing/fleshwarping).