Mr. Fishy doesn't need to write assassin on his character sheet to kill for money. Mr. Fishy just needs to get paid.
Mr. Fishy doesn't need to write assassin on his character sheet to kill for money. Mr. Fishy just needs to get paid.
Really? 'cause I know somebody here on the west coast that could use your skills!
Seriously, though, the assassin was never that good. Pathfinder made them better, but that's not saying much. I think of it as an NPC class, really. Something that the PCs can be legitimately worried about. You don't want to raise the ire of a guild that employs such a person. We had a PC die to one once. The GM set it up perfectly. It was awesome.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Having a look though is the assassin a little under done?
Not to mention the obscenely low Death Attack DC. Using 3 rounds to study the target, set up a sneak attack without the enemy recognizing a threat, and having them save (@ level 10, Assuming Int 14-17) against a DC 17 or 18 Fort save (10+5 Assn lvl+2 or 3 Int) is ludicrous. A melee character at the same level will save more than 50% of the time (+7 Fort+2 or 3 Con+9 or higher on 1d20), while even a low Fort save class like the wizard has a 25% chance of surviving (+3 Fort+15 or higher on 1d20).
And after level 15, forget it!
I usually houserule the "Assassin's class level" bit to be a bit like the Tome of Battle... "Assassin's class level +1/2 his other class levels."
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Mr. Fishy doesn't need to write assassin on his character sheet to kill for money. Mr. Fishy just needs to get paid.
A bit off-topic...during one campaign, everyone had a name card to set in front of them with their character's name on it, so everyone remembered who everyone was.
Besides character name, everyone was writing down class, race, and gender as well. For example, "Angus, male dwarf paladin."Now, my character was a rogue, but he wasn't a typical thief (was planning on dipping into a melee class at second level) - his profession was best described as "mercenary". So, on my name card, I wrote "Kuldak, male half-orc mercenary."
Man, what a can of worms I opened. It turned out there were a number of players who couldn't stand the fact that they didn't know what my class was. I ended up letting them know, but I kept "mercenary" on my name card.
"Assassin" is similar to "mercenary" I think...you can be one without having levels in it.
I'm still not clear why they didn't just make the assassin class features into rogue talents, but what do I know.
I'm not sure assasin is worth it- on the surface rogue looks alot better.
If you're just looking at the stats, you're absolutely right. If you're looking for superior crunch (skills, abilities, etc), then you might want to stick with 10 levels of Rogue. If you're more into the role-playing aspect of the class and want the back-story (fluff) that goes along with the Assassin, then this is your class.
Personally I prefer to use the Assassin as an NPC, but I give kudos to players that reach beyond the stats to play a thematically interesting character.
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A bit off-topic...during one campaign, everyone had a name card to set in front of them with their character's name on it, so everyone remembered who everyone was.
Besides character name, everyone was writing down class, race, and gender as well. For example, "Angus, male dwarf paladin."
Now, my character was a rogue, but he wasn't a typical thief (was planning on dipping into a melee class at second level) - his profession was best described as "mercenary". So, on my name card, I wrote "Kuldak, male half-orc mercenary."
Man, what a can of worms I opened. It turned out there were a number of players who couldn't stand the fact that they didn't know what my class was. I ended up letting them know, but I kept "mercenary" on my name card.
"Assassin" is similar to "mercenary" I think...you can be one without having levels in it.
I think it would be interesting to run campaigns were players didn't know each others class. In my last campaign, they didn't know my character took levels in rogue until I (under a mind flayers control) sneak attacked another PC to death.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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You also get poison use, which other than the new alchemist class you can't get anywhere else. The first death attack of an encounter should also use a poisoned weapon, which would make for 2 Fort saves. If you use a Con affecting poison, that could lower their Fort save against the death attack as well.
I think that the poison use, hidden weapons, true death, quiet death, hide in plain site, swift death, and angel of death abilities more than make up for the missing rogue talents. They are at least on par with the rogue talents (which makes the assassin a balanced alternative). The lack of skills (of which you probably had to many already if you started in rogue) are made up for by the improvements to Uncanny Dodge and Poison Resistance.
The only thing I don't like about the new assassin is the absence of their arcane spells.
I think the death save DC should have been upped or the 3 round rule should have been dropped for something like that target has to be flat-footed. Loss of dex to AC would not be enough.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I don't think the DC is that low really. You're comparing the DC of the plain old class ability to a spellcaster with lots of boosts. The spellcaster can use spell focus/greater spell focus - the assassin can use ability focus for a +2 to DC (and only use 1 feat for it.) The spellcaster can increase their casting ability score, well, so can the assassin - headband of intellect (which also helps on the skill points). The assassin can also use an assassin's dagger for an additional +1 to the DC of death attacks.
Yeah, the DC is pretty horrendously low, I mean 10+1/2 PrC level+Int mod...
For the record, the DC is based on PrC level, not 1/2 Prc Level.
"(DC 10 + the assassin's class level + the assassin's Int modifier)"
This actually starts low, and gets better up through 10th level assassin (~15th level). At that point it's better/as-good as a wizard's highest level spell (20+Int vs. 18+Int+mods).
I think that the poison use, hidden weapons, true death, quiet death, hide in plain site, swift death, and angel of death abilities more than make up for the missing rogue talents.
I agree with this, mostly. But I don't agree that the new benefits (bolded) are equal to the loss of the spells they used to have. It was never a *super* strong class before. It's a bit lacking now.
Not unplayable, but lacking. Far better to play a Red Mantis Assassin.
Is there anything keeping an assassin from taking the Ability Focus feat for his Death Attack? It is clearly a special attack.
I agree with this, mostly. But I don't agree that the new benefits (bolded) are equal to the loss of the spells they used to have. It was never a *super* strong class before. It's a bit lacking now.
Not unplayable, but lacking. Far better to play a Red Mantis Assassin.
I never said that it made up for the lack of spellcasting. I even remember saying that I hated the fact that they lost their arcane abilities. Please don't quote me as saying something that I didn't. It confuses people as to which stance I take.
hide in plain site
How does that one work? Do you get to hide somewhere without any ornamentation? ;-P
I liked the spell casting assassin. The new stuff sounds nice, too, though. I'm not sure whether it makes up for assassin spells, but it's not bad, either.
Of course, the abilities could have been created as a string of feats or rogue talents, but a lot of PrCs could be turned into "Prestige Feats" that way. And I actually think that's not such a bad idea. Let's get rid of all PrCs and make the interesting stuff Feats instead!
Is there anything keeping an assassin from taking the Ability Focus feat for his Death Attack? It is clearly a special attack.I never said that it made up for the lack of spellcasting. I even remember saying that I hated the fact that they lost their arcane abilities. Please don't quote me as saying something that I didn't. It confuses people as to which stance I take.I agree with this, mostly. But I don't agree that the new benefits (bolded) are equal to the loss of the spells they used to have. It was never a *super* strong class before. It's a bit lacking now.
Not unplayable, but lacking. Far better to play a Red Mantis Assassin.
It qualifies.
I always wanted a nonspellcasting assassin. I figured a "real" assassin would not need magic even in a magic based world, and that would add to their awesomeness. My issue is the spells were taken away, and nothing was given to make them scary.
I understand the campaign book has a version that cast spells, but I still think the PrC in the core book should be better at its job than a rogue.
Well that should help the perceived DC problem a bit then.Is there anything keeping an assassin from taking the Ability Focus feat for his Death Attack? It is clearly a special attack.It qualifies.
I always wanted a nonspellcasting assassin. I figured a "real" assassin would not need magic even in a magic based world, and that would add to their awesomeness. My issue is the spells were taken away, and nothing was given to make them scary.
I understand the campaign book has a version that cast spells, but I still think the PrC in the core book should be better at its job than a rogue.
And for those people who don't play PF Chronicles, and still want a magical assassin, there is no reason they couldn't take a few levels of wizard or sorcerer to get those low-level utility spells such as spider climb, knock, disguise self, alter self, etc. Such simple spells are amazing at getting an assassin to his chosen target.
The new skill ranking system makes getting into prestige classes with skill prerequisites insanely easy. I LOVE IT!
And for those people who don't play PF CHronicles, and still want a magical assassin, there is no reason they couldn't take a few levels of wizard and sorcerer to get those low-level utility spells such as spider climb, knock, disguise self, alter self, etc. Such simple spells are amazing at getting an assassin to his chosen target.
Except that the magical rogue talents and Use Magic Device can more or less give you what you want nearly as easily, without the loss of four rogue levels (along with two dice of sneak attack and whatever extra goodies the levels might bring). Moreover, as the RAW assassin doesn't advance any spellcasting class, it would be a complete waste as a PrC for anyone who wanted more than a few magical tricks.
Unfortunately, the power level does seem to say NPC rogue.
Heck even hide in plain sight can be gotten for a 1 level shadow dancer dip.
Hide in Plain Sight for a SD requires a shadow to be nearby.
Hide in Plain Sight for a Ranger requires natural terrain.
As far as I can tell, Hide in Plain Sight for an Assassin can be done anywhere. That's pretty big.
Assassin:
Hide in Plain Sight (Su): At 8th level, an assassin can use the Stealth skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.
Sorry, Dork Lord. ;)
Well that should help the perceived DC problem a bit then.Is there anything keeping an assassin from taking the Ability Focus feat for his Death Attack? It is clearly a special attack.It qualifies.I always wanted a nonspellcasting assassin. I figured a "real" assassin would not need magic even in a magic based world, and that would add to their awesomeness. My issue is the spells were taken away, and nothing was given to make them scary.
I understand the campaign book has a version that cast spells, but I still think the PrC in the core book should be better at its job than a rogue.
And for those people who don't play PF Chronicles, and still want a magical assassin, there is no reason they couldn't take a few levels of wizard or sorcerer to get those low-level utility spells such as spider climb, knock, disguise self, alter self, etc. Such simple spells are amazing at getting an assassin to his chosen target.
The new skill ranking system makes getting into prestige classes with skill prerequisites insanely easy. I LOVE IT!
Some people want the assassin name to match the class though. I think anyone should be able to call themselves an assassin, but when you have the PrC it should be noteworthy. Giving the assassin a bonus to gather information to track down targets would be nice too.
Now the wheels are turning....
You know, a Ranger with favored enemy: Humanoid (human, elf, dwarf, ...) has long struck me as somewhat assassiny.
Use the Urban variant from UA, take Urban favored terrain...
Think about it!
Assassin:
Hide in Plain Sight (Su): At 8th level, an assassin can use the Stealth skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.Sorry, Dork Lord. ;)
Ah well. I could swear it was HipS anywhere in 3.5 for Assassins. I assumed it hadn't been changed. Mind you, if it was that way in 3.5, this is a good change imo.
And for those people who don't play PF CHronicles, and still want a magical assassin, there is no reason they couldn't take a few levels of wizard and sorcerer to get those low-level utility spells such as spider climb, knock, disguise self, alter self, etc. Such simple spells are amazing at getting an assassin to his chosen target.Except that the magical rogue talents and Use Magic Device can more or less give you what you want nearly as easily, without the loss of four rogue levels (along with two dice of sneak attack and whatever extra goodies the levels might bring). Moreover, as the RAW assassin doesn't advance any spellcasting class, it would be a complete waste as a PrC for anyone who wanted more than a few magical tricks.
Minor and Major Magic gets you one 0-level spell and one 1st-level spell, respectively. That's pretty crappy if you are looking for more.
Losing 1d6 sneak attack damage in order to be better able to get into a position of sneak attack in the first place is more than worth it most of the time.
Use Magic Device goes a long way towards nullifying the need to multiclass, but that's not enough for some people (who want magic assassins, not assasssins who use magic items). It also forces the rogue to spread out his ability scores more (he needs Intelligence AND Charisma among others now).
A wizard 3/rogue 7/assassin 10 on the other hand gets a fine mix of abilities, will likely have higher Death Attack DCs, doesn't lose much in the way of sneak attack (2d6 maybe), and fits the "magical assassin" archetype rather well. Said assassin can also make tons of scrolls for himself or for others or put his familiar to good use as a spy or lookout.
It loses some things, but gains others. As far as I can tell, it breaks out pretty evenly.
Our Shadow Assassin base class does just about what everyone is talking about. Here's a link to the description:
http://paizo.com/store/downloads/otherWorldCreations/pathfinderRPG/v5748btp y8bns
I'll also send the first few people to ask for one a free copy so they can look it over.
Hyrum.
Our Shadow Assassin base class does just about what everyone is talking about. Here's a link to the description:
http://paizo.com/store/downloads/otherWorldCreations/pathfinderRPG/v5748btp y8bns
I'll also send the first few people to ask for one a free copy so they can look it over.
Hyrum.
me me me. do you need an email address now?
w33w33@aol.com
I popped the cost. Add +1 to your sales :) My world has assassins guilds and I was never too happy with the prestige class (3.5 or PF). I'll post some thoughts after I look it over.
I popped the cost. Add +1 to your sales :) My world has assassins guilds and I was never too happy with the prestige class (3.5 or PF). I'll post some thoughts after I look it over.
Thanks R_Chance!
I also sent copies to TriOmegaZero, Wraithstrike, Kyrt-Ryder, and Jagyr. Hope you guys enjoy it. :)
Hyrum.
PS: I'll send a copy to the next two people that request one.
PS: I'll send a copy to the next two people that request one.
I'd be interested in seeing a copy as well. My user name, at gmail.com.
I popped the cost. Add +1 to your sales :) My world has assassins guilds and I was never too happy with the prestige class (3.5 or PF). I'll post some thoughts after I look it over.Thanks R_Chance!
I also sent copies to TriOmegaZero, Wraithstrike, Kyrt-Ryder, and Jagyr. Hope you guys enjoy it. :)
Hyrum.
PS: I'll send a copy to the next two people that request one.
Once I read it I will put up 2 reviews.
One based on what I expect the class to do, and other after I playtest it which may be a month or so away.Thanks. Free stuff is always good.
Once I read it I will put up 2 reviews.
One based on what I expect the class to do, and other after I playtest it which may be a month or so away.Thanks. Free stuff is always good.
That would be awesome Wraithstrike! Can't wait to read both of them.
Kurukami and angryscrub, you should both have links to free copies. Thanks !!
Hyrum.
PS: And that's it, for now at least. :)
I got you too Razil.
Hyrum.
Having a look though is the assassin a little under done?Not to mention the obscenely low Death Attack DC. Using 3 rounds to study the target, set up a sneak attack without the enemy recognizing a threat, and having them save (@ level 10, Assuming Int 14-17) against a DC 17 or 18 Fort save (10+5 Assn lvl+2 or 3 Int) is ludicrous. A melee character at the same level will save more than 50% of the time (+7 Fort+2 or 3 Con+9 or higher on 1d20), while even a low Fort save class like the wizard has a 25% chance of surviving (+3 Fort+15 or higher on 1d20).
And after level 15, forget it!
I usually houserule the "Assassin's class level" bit to be a bit like the Tome of Battle... "Assassin's class level +1/2 his other class levels."
A 75% chance of a character dropping dead instantly seems to low? Save or Die only seems like a good idea when it's the other guy who is doing it. When it happens to a beloved PC it's not nearly so much fun.