I know this has been stated earlier, but does anyone know if this maneuver is being "errataed"?
If not, does anyone know how to make it useful, any house rules regarding it?
Well, it's fine as written, what changes do you have in mind ?
For it to work something like Bullrush I would say. Making it useful :)
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Well, it's fine as written, what changes do you have in mind ?For it to work something like Bullrush I would say. Making it useful :)
But we have Bullrush for something that works like Bullrush. What is your issue with Overrun? (or Overfun as one of my players mistakenly called it the other day) I have a cleric of Gorum that loves Overunning mooks.
Well, it's fine as written, what changes do you have in mind ?For it to work something like Bullrush I would say. Making it useful :)But we have Bullrush for something that works like Bullrush. What is your issue with Overrun? (or Overfun as one of my players mistakenly called it the other day) I have a cleric of Gorum that loves Overunning mooks.
Well, I have some issues with it. It gets just one guy, which makes no sense to me. (how is it easier to push 5 felows than to get past 5 felows?)
It spends an standard action during a move. (But I can live with that or it would be to powerful)It has absolutelly no effect on the target if u don't pass the test by 5 or more.
Got it?
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But if you succeed by 1-4 then you move through the square of your opponent, which is the truly desired effect of Overrun. If you want to move your opponent then you want a bullrush. If you want to knock your opponent down, then trip them.
The other option is get yourself a mount via the Animal Companion rules so you can eventually get Trample on the mount. Then it is all kinds of Overfun.
But if you succeed by 1-4 then you move through the square of your opponent, which is the truly desired effect of Overrun. If you want to move your opponent then you want a bullrush. If you want to knock your opponent down, then trip them.
The other option is get yourself a mount via the Animal Companion rules so you can eventually get Trample on the mount. Then it is all kinds of Overfun.
Pitty then, that a maneuver is less powerful than a skill check. And then again, I want to move through several oponents, then I would have to go with the tumble, which is not the way I see some characters doing it.
Does anyone have any idea how an overrun works during a charge? The rules specifically state that you can do it, but since a charge is a full-round action by default, there's no standard action left to use for the overrun.
My best guess is that you can attempt an overrun against anyone along the path of your charge, which would mean you can use it more than once per round. But I really have no idea.
For anyone interested, here's the relevant text from the PFSRD
Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action.
As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square.
How do you take a standard action as part of a charge?
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Pitty then, that a maneuver is less powerful than a skill check. And then again, I want to move through several oponents, then I would have to go with the tumble, which is not the way I see some characters doing it.But if you succeed by 1-4 then you move through the square of your opponent, which is the truly desired effect of Overrun. If you want to move your opponent then you want a bullrush. If you want to knock your opponent down, then trip them.
The other option is get yourself a mount via the Animal Companion rules so you can eventually get Trample on the mount. Then it is all kinds of Overfun.
For a rogue or other class with lots of skill points (not to mention a good Dexterity), tumbling is a great option. However, for a fighter type with few skill points, and probably a higher Strength than Dexterity (and in the case of Fighters, feats to spare), improved overrun is a much better option. Also, while using overrun, you can move at your full speed without penalties, unlike tumbling, which is half speed or a -5 to your check.
Does anyone have any idea how an overrun works during a charge? The rules specifically state that you can do it, but since a charge is a full-round action by default, there's no standard action left to use for the overrun.
My best guess is that you can attempt an overrun against anyone along the path of your charge, which would mean you can use it more than once per round. But I really have no idea.
As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square.
I'd say you can only overrun the target of the charge, otherwise you'd be able to bypass many of the requirements to set up a charge with this maneuver.
How do you take a standard action as part of a charge?
Here I think the intent is to swap the attack allowed by the charge for a combat maneuver, overrun in this case.
You do not get more than one standard actions per round, that would be against the rules.You swap one for the other and get the benefits(and drawbacks) of the charge during yout overrun maneuver.
This is how I read it.
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Pitty then, that a maneuver is less powerful than a skill check. And then again, I want to move through several oponents, then I would have to go with the tumble, which is not the way I see some characters doing it.
Perhaps, but there is no restrictions on who may perform an Overrun. As Joel has pointed out anyone with some dex and the skill can do it but have to suffer penalties to movement. But there is another point to it as well.
Core Book Page 88
"You can not use acrobatics to move past foes if your speed is reduced dur to carryina medium or heavy load or wearing medium or heavy armor"
Now it goes on to say that if you have an ability (I read fighters armor training here) that lets you keep your movement then you can indeed use Acrobatics to tumble past enemies. That doesn't help all armored folks though, and it only helps Fighters who have achieved high enough level to keep their speed in the armor they are wearing.
So Overrun let's those folks who are not the Acrobatics type and/or in medium or heavy armor to move past opponents. As I said the Full plate wearing Cleric of Gorum in my Campaign loves this trick. Doesn't even have the feat, just relies on his monstrously high AC to get past the AOO. Works about 7 out of 8 times.
Overrun is quite handy for mounts who would find it QUITE difficult to tumble past an opponent, at least without spilling the rider.
Overrun is quite handy for mounts who would find it QUITE difficult to tumble past an opponent, at least without spilling the rider.
On this case there is the Trample ability.
Look, I realized the "flaw" of this maneuver yesterday. As the Bullrush was fixed from the previous edition, so I hoped the overrun would get the same love.
You all got some valid points. But it turns out, bullrush is a MUCH more viable option. Acording to the rules as writen, you cannot make an Overrun on more than one person, and you actually can't do it while Charging (I believe this will be Errataed though, at least this part).
The goal of this maneuver is obviously get past opponents to get somewhere else, it turns out, that if you are the raging large barbarian and there are 2 STR 1 goblins between him and the Target, he cannot do it. And that strikes me as odd, considering that a guy with a huge CMB could push an "infinite" number of said goblins, but not pass through their squares.
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Improved OverRun prevents you from taking and AoO when you initiate it but do you take one as you pass your opponent. For example I move through the square of an opponent 10' away using OverRun but do not render him prone. I move into the square behind him (now 15' from where I started). If I continue to move (I still have 15' of movement left) does he get an AoO?
Does anyone have any idea how an overrun works during a charge? The rules specifically state that you can do it, but since a charge is a full-round action by default, there's no standard action left to use for the overrun.
My best guess is that you can attempt an overrun against anyone along the path of your charge, which would mean you can use it more than once per round. But I really have no idea.
For anyone interested, here's the relevant text from the PFSRD
Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action.As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square.How do you take a standard action as part of a charge?
The charge is a "special full-round action" that allows an attack during the full-round action. An attack is a standard action, and overrun (as a combat maneuver) can be substituted for an attack. So since the charge -- as part of its "special" nature -- allows an attack in addition to the full-round action, why would an overrun not be allowed?
Pitty then, that a maneuver is less powerful than a skill check. And then again, I want to move through several oponents, then I would have to go with the tumble, which is not the way I see some characters doing it.
I don't see how it's "less powerful." The tumbling carries a +5 difficulty, can only be used at half-speed (or suffering another +10 difficulty), can't be used when encumbered by a medium or heavy load or medium or heavy armor (absent further feats and/or special abilities), and does not benefit from combat bonuses. Clearly, for an agile rogue or perhaps even an acrobatic monk or bard, the tumbling would likely be the more useful option for moving through an opponent's square. But for a barbarian or fighter, or even a well-armored cleric, people who likely don't have stellar dex scores or lots of ranks of acrobatics, Overrun is a plenty useful alternative.
Another question relating to a “Bullrush” Battle cleric on one of the other forums actually had me doing a lot of comparison between the Bullrush and Overrun feats. Ultimately during a mock up of that sort of character theme I started asking myself what was stopping me from taking both feats and vastly improving the amount of combat maneuver options that I would have situationally? The only answer I could come up with was – Nothing (assuming that I embrace that this kind of a build would be VERY feat intensive).
I think it’s important to clearly define what it is that you are trying to accomplish by the maneuver? The Bullrush chain definitively chains into vastly more possible feat selections as you progress, but it doesn’t do an awful lot more than reposition your foes and break formations that maybe you don’t like tactically. Overrun on the other hand, applies prone whilst breaking those same formations which from a personal stand-point is very attractive to me.
In the case of the mock up character concept I was fiddling around with, I want to break lines, get into the second (or third+) ranks and set myself up for Cleaves, Gr. Cleaves and ultimately at high level Cleaving Finish types of chain reactions. In which case, situationally, I probably lean on Imp. Overrun far more than I would Bullrushing. There are other feats and maneuvers that apply to what this mock up would want to do but this isn’t really the place to explore it. At the end of the day, what prompted me to post was to play Devil’s Advocate for Charge Through.
Charge Through (Combat)
You can overrun enemies when charging.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Improved Overrun, Power Attack, base attack bonus+1.
Benefit: When making a charge, you can attempt to overrun one creature in the path of the charge as a free action. If you successfully overrun that creature, you can complete the charge. If the overrun is unsuccessful, the charge ends in the space directly in front of that creature.
Normal: You must have a clear path toward the target of your charge.
Just thought drawing some attention to that particular feat might answer some of the what ifs I’ve read through the discussion as well as open the conversation up to some more theory.